Advice for Parents from an 18 Year Old.

Your list is very good especially considering your age.

Here is another thing that we did. We encouraged our kids to make a good effort at whatever they did. You never really know how your kids stack up against their peer group so we didn't emphasize grades in school, we emphasized effort. We did this in other areas of their life as well.

They have done very well as a result.

*apologies for any formatting issues ahead*

Originally posted by NadaCambia
But nothing about marijuanna makes you drug dependant. Naturally people who smoke marijuanna are more likely to take any number of drugs. That's a social issue, not the effect of taking the drug itself. So that's irrelevant because it's not the effect of the drug, more an indication of the people who generally take it. Atleast in Western society.

But numerous studies proved that it is linked, and it wasn't mentioned (and it would've if there was) that it was due to social issues/peer pressure.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
It's also a known fact that chemicals, much like bacteria are largely good. Medicine are all over the chemical cannabinol, found in Cannabis, for example. The way you word that statement is as if to imply that's a bad thing. You can find 400 chemicals in any number of harmless plants, vegetables and fruit consumed on a regular basis.

The chemicals in question here are not good though.

...including at least 66 other cannabinoids (cannabidiol (CBD), cannabinol (CBN) and tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV), etc.) which can result in different effects from those of THC alone.[7]

en.wikipedia.org...(drug)

Originally posted by NadaCambia
That's true. I can smoke thyme and basil and have the same result. But what does this tell us? That inhaling smoke is bad for us. Marijuana can be ate and comes with none of those problems. Other paraphernalia is pretty hi-tech these days.

I'll copy and paste:

[snip, to lessen message size, read it all, keeping link]

en.wikipedia.org...

Sure, but we've come to the conclusion in that regard that it's doing you no favours, really. And from what I know, the most common method is via smoking it.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
I'm not rubbishing the study but I would like to know more about this part of the study. If I know stoners(and I do), lazyness is the main 'illness' preventing them from getting to work.

I'd hazzard a guess that these people were asked how many days of work they took sick, rather than how many times they've been literally sick. The study seems to be blending the 2 as if they were the same, but there's a difference between bunking off work and being genuinely ill.

Luckily, these studies didn't hazard a guess, and as it says many of the extra days WAS due to the respiratory system. It explicitly mentions that.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
If you once more make the claim I suggested you commit suicide I will report you personally to a mod. I tried to be polite and explained the phrase, giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were just oblivious to its existence. Now I believe you know exactly what I meant and are twisting my words because you have nothing in the way of valid argument. Stop trying to poison the well (and I'm not explaining that)

Back to another of your logical fallacies. What of kids aged 12 to 17 smoking marijuanna being more prone to suicidal thoughts? People who smoke marijuanna are more likely to come from working class (often broken)families, have financial issues, actually have problems in their life. Drugs are an outlet and escape for many. That users are more suicidal is again a social issue, until you can prove otherwise (and you can't)

Also can and do are two different things. While there is a link between marijuana and mild anxiety, it's grocely exagerated. It's so minor that it hardly rates mentioning. About as severe as coffee induced anxiety, ie, not very.

MENTAL HEALTH, BRAIN FUNCTION, AND MEMORY: It has been suggested that marijuana is at the root of many mental disorders, including acute toxic psychosis, panic attacks (one of the very conditions it is being used experimentally to treat), flashbacks, delusions, depersonalization, hallucinations, paranoia, depression, and uncontrollable aggressiveness. Marijuana has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia. This connection with mental illness should make health care providers for terminally ill patients and the patients themselves, who may already be suffering from some form of clinical depression, weigh very carefully the pros and cons of adopting a therapeutic course of marijuana.

In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.

cyber.law.harvard.edu...

Imagine that, on the developing adolescent brain?
Also, don't threaten me by saying you'll report me to the moderator, you're lucky I decided to oversee the fact earlier you mentioned I come off as being someone homicidal.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
Again that means little. They've been studying and trying to rubbish marijuana for years, and they still have nothing conclusive. They state as much themselves. "it is not clear whether marijuana user causes mental problems, exacerbates them, or reflects an attempt to self-medicate symptoms already in existence".

I'm almost certain I asked you to provide facts. Most of this is speculation on the back of bunk science. From an anti-drugs government website no less! The people promoting the war on drugs wouldn't have an agenda, surely not

Ok.

What do the studies say about marijuana and mental health?

Many studies have been suggested that marijuana is the root cause of many mental disorders.

Several studies have documented marijuana linked with symptoms of schizophrenia and report that it is an independent risk factor for schizophrenia.

Heavy marijuana users are almost seven times more likely than non-users to be diagnosed with schizophrenia later in life.

A recent study found that that the earlier the use of marijuana (age 15 vs. age 18), the greater the risk of schizophrenia.

A study based on data from the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse found that teenagers 12 to 17 who smoke marijuana weekly are three times more likely to have thoughts of committing suicide.

Studies show that marijuana use during adolescence increases the risk of psychotic disorders in adulthood.

A study published in 2005 found that regular use of marijuana may double the risk of developing psychotic disorders and that marijuana causes chemical changes to the brain.

Some research shows that marijuana use can precede symptoms of depression.

Girls (ages 14 to 15) who used marijuana daily were five times more likely to face depression at age 21.

smoking.ygoy.com...

Originally posted by NadaCambia
I wasn't trying to argue it was doing me any good, though clearly it does do some.

And how has it does you any good? I'm having difficulty seeing the benefits in you.

Originally posted by NadaCambia

en.wikipedia.org...

The benefits evidently outweight the 'cons'.

Debatable, as we've seen

Originally posted by NadaCambia
But you have ate and do eat unhealthy foods, don't you? Foods that when taken often, would have arguebly a negative effect on your health. You can hide from it all you like, I'll chase you on this issue all day... What's the difference between your consumption of food that when consumed often, may lead to ill health. And someones consumption of marijuana, which when consumed often may lead to ill health? There is no difference. You don't even hold yourself to your own standards.

Actually, the last "fast food" outlet I went to was Subway and I haven't been to any others before and since in over 5 years. Also, fast food outlets don't supply illegal drugs. Epic fail on putting words in my mouth on that one. Also, I welcome you to continue this debate with me, I will continue to debate my point of view until the end of time.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
And you are indoctrinated. Because there is no sensical moral argument that can be made against marijuana. Best to stick with quasi-science, you really don't want to debate the Biomedical ethics.

No moral argument? Oh ok, so innocent people who die from druggies who need money so they get killed and robbed are just not even going to be acknowledged? Fine, well let's take a look at some other scenarios where people are getting killed.

Driving While Impaired
The extent of the problem of marijuana-impaired driving is startling. One in six (or 600,000) high school students drive under the influence of marijuana, almost as many as drive under the influence of alcohol, according to estimates released in September 2003 by the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP). A study of motorists pulled over for reckless driving showed that, among those who were not impaired by alcohol, 45 percent tested positive for marijuana.

Those who patrol streets and highways, know that the consequences of marijuana-impaired driving can be tragic. For example, four children and their van driver-nicknamed Smokey by the children for his regular marijuana smoking-died in April 2002 when a Tippy Toes Learning Academy van veered off a freeway and hit a concrete bridge abutment. He was found at the crash scene with marijuana in his pocket.

Innocents Killed
Some such drug-impaired drivers will be detected through the Drug Recognition Expert program, which operates under the direction of the IACP and is supported by NHTSA. However, if we are to bolster cases against drugged drivers, greater protection for innocents on the road requires the development of affordable roadside drug detection tests, and some are in the testing phase now. Secondhand smoke from marijuana kills other innocents as well. Last year, two Philadelphia firefighters were killed when they responded to a residential fire stemming from an indoor marijuana grow. In New York City, an eight-year-old boy, Deasean Hill, was killed by a stray bullet just steps from his Brooklyn home after a drug dealer sold a dime bag of marijuana on another dealer's turf.

alcoholism.about.com...

Originally posted by NadaCambia
Respect the law, lol. It's a good job there's people who think for themselves, if respecting the law was something everyone actually believed in we'd still be peasants and slaves ruled over by vicious and vulgar tyrants. Authority and law are not self justifying, they must be continually questioned. You sound like you'd be better suited to North Korea or Saudi Arabia.

Pathetic, if you have no care to respect the law and abide by it, either go live on a random island and never return to society, or rot in a prison cell.
And, there are some parts of North Korea that make some sense, however flaws do lie in their regime, but we've got a huge ton of issues here as well.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
If you have morals I don't know what someone without them would look like.

I'm looking at someone with none right now, and it ain't a pretty sight.

I was referring to a social group or clique. Not my own personal view on them as people. My mistake for not using quotation marks.

BUT, and here's the thing; Just as smoking marijuana doesn't make you cool, instantly or other wise, it also doesn't make you a downer or a sad case, instantly or otherwise. Smoking marijuanna or not smoking it doesn't make a person. It may contribute to who they are in some capacity, small or large, but it does not make a person.

Also you completely avoided alcohol, although you slammed people who happen to drink alcohol earlier. I take it your fact finding led you to what I previously stated, a small amount of alcohol each day is beneficial to ones health?

I've yet to see anyone taking drugs in good light. Also, I'll touch onto alcohol below.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
I've adressed my previous mistake and my views on what and what isn't cool aren't really relevant. To entertain, and probably humour you; I'm a confused hippy, my idea of cool isn't very conventional. I have a Noam Chomsky print on my wall(which I made myself), I'm a vegetarian and I'm currently sporting a circa 1980s rat tail because I watch too much Rugby ( rugbyhair.com... )

I'm about as uncool by popular definition as one could possibly be

. My idea of cool definately isn't your jocks, 'gangsters' or chavs, if that's the impression you've been getting.

I seriously think you need to re-evaluate what your actual problem with drugs and people who take them is. You seem to be engaging in some sort of guilt by assosciation fallacy, where in drugs automatically make one beneath you.

It's not going to happen and it shouldn't happen, but theoretically, if you or someone you loved smoked a joint do you honestly believe it would change who you or they are as a person? Unless you went seriously mad with the stuff you'd still be you, nothing would change. Why are you so resistant to the fact not everyone who takes or has taken drugs falls neatly into your created stereotypical categories? A good person is still a good person, a smart person is still a smart person, a healthy person is still a healthy person(granted he doesn't abuse), and I can go on like this.

What's right for you isn't necessarily right for me. And It's really not nice to tell or suggest someone is beneath you because they happen to put a plant in a plant and smoke it. For the people who have consumed it, it can bring great amounts of happiness and pleasure. Is there really anything morally wrong with that?

If you don't want to use drugs that's great, and I'm happy for you, clearly you value your health greatly and I'm sure most here will appreciate that, even if I think you're wrong in your worries or 'facts'. But why can't it be just that? Why are you unable to lend the same decency and respect for the position and views of others. After all we're talking about burning a practically harmless plant, it's not rape or murder. That you feel so strongly and have such venemous views on what is to be honest, a trivial issue, it's odd. And I can't believe or accept an otherwise coherant person would come to your position without some level of indoctrination or propoganda, whether it's from family, friends, media or government.

I'll end my post on that note because I've said all I really can.

You should probably refer to above as to why it's morally wrong to do it, and how it affects other people and yourself and how it's breaking the law.

But it comes as no surprise to me I guess when it comes to your personality traits and why you seem to be an advocate for it.

Let's touch onto alcohol now, and how it is a bad idea to drink it prior to 21(which is what the OP is suggesting) and how it effects people in general, of any age too.


---

ALCOHOL

-----



Ok. The OP suggests that teenagers "experiment" with alcohol as this is somehow going to be beneficial. It's known alcohol on the growing adolescent brain is harmful (and pretty much at any age) and will make them worse off in the long term (and that counts).
It's also illegal for them to be drinking prior to the appropiate age. It's also illegal to supply them with the alcohol. It's incredibly irresponsible.

But let's seriously get down and look at the real world examples of illegal teenage drinking, and then move onto drinking in general.

Also, I'm mainly bashing people who drink illegally (under the age) or abuse the alcohol, or have affected others by their drinking. If you must drink, and drink in a tiny quantity, and you're of legal age, and you've never hurt anyone over drinking, that's ok - you haven't broken the law. However, you could tell me you've never hurt anyone by doing marijuana, but I invite you to re-read that it is illegal to do it, and that is wrong. Plus, it doesn't rule out any future assaults related to drugs, considering you use them. Also, I have no idea what the state of mind your supplier is in, but by being a customer, you're keeping him busy, and looking at previous quotes, innocent people have been killed by suppliers and whatnot.



Let's get into it.

Intoxication risks
Intoxication is the most common cause of alcohol-related problems, leading to injuries and premature deaths. As a result, intoxication accounts for two-thirds of the years of life lost from drinking. Alcohol is responsible for:

30% of road accidents
44% of fire injuries
34% of falls and drownings
16% of child abuse cases
12% of suicides
10% of industrial accidents
As well as deaths, short-term effects of alcohol result in illness and loss of work productivity (e.g. hangovers, drink driving offences). In addition, alcohol contributes to criminal behaviour - in Australia over 70% of prisoners convicted of violent assaults have drunk alcohol before committing the offence and more than 40% of domestic violence incidents involve alcohol.

www.dassa.sa.gov.au...


That's just in general of how it affects others.

Let's see how it affects you.

Long-term effects
Each year approximately 3000 people die as a result of excessive alcohol consumption and around 101 000 people are hospitalised. Long-term excessive alcohol consumption is
associated with:

heart damage
high blood pressure and stroke
liver damage
cancers of the digestive system
other digestive system disorders (e.g. stomach ulcers)
sexual impotence and reduced fertility
increasing risk of breast cancer
sleeping difficulties
brain damage with mood and personality changes
concentration and memory problems
In addition to health problems, alcohol also impacts on relationships, finances, work, and may result in legal problems.

www.dassa.sa.gov.au...



Okay, we've gotten that down.

Let's see how it affects teenagers now.


Also, I'm in Australia so the current analysis I'm about to source is from research in Australia. Also, the legal age of drinking here is 18, so if I say 'teen drinking' or whatever, please make sure you understand I mean underage. I will assume the OP is in America, and thus people should abide by local laws (21 in America).

Also, the information/statistics I learned from the following site actually shocked me.

Alcohol is widely used by young people. Around 90 per cent of Australian teenagers over the age of 14 years have tried alcohol at least once. ‘Binge drinking’, drink driving and unsafe sex can all result from the misuse of alcohol.

www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au...


So we can see already, an INCREDIBLE vast majority take the stuff, this gives me serious concern for the future.

Alcohol – the risks
-
Irresponsible use of alcohol can lead to:
‘Binge drinking’ or drinking too much on a single occasion
Drink driving
Unsafe sex
Impaired brain development
Injury or death.

www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au...

That speaks for itself.

Drink driving
Car accidents are a leading cause of death for teenagers. In 2006–07, one out of four drivers or riders killed or injured in road accidents in Victoria were over the legal limit for blood alcohol concentration (BAC).

www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au...


Think about that for a moment. Innocent people once again being affected by other people's horrible habits and illegal activities.

Alcohol and sex
Alcohol impairs judgement. Teenagers are more likely to engage in unsafe sexual practices when they have been drinking. Other associated risks include:
--
Date rape
Sexual intercourse without a condom
Exposure to sexually transmissible infections (STIs)
Possible pregnancy.

www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au...

Again, this information speaks for itself

Impaired brain development
--
Drinking alcohol can affect how the brain develops in young adults under the age of 25.
Young people under 15 years of age are particularly at risk. Teenage brains are still developing and the areas of the brain that are undergoing the most dramatic changes during the teenage years are the frontal lobe and hippocampus. These areas are associated with motivation, impulse control and addiction.

Alcohol is a neurotoxin, which means it can poison the brain. One of the effects of excessive alcohol use is that it interferes with vitamin B absorption; this prevents the brain from working properly. Long-term drinking above the recommended levels may lead to a range of disorders, collectively known as alcohol-related brain damage. Symptoms can include learning and memory problems and difficulties with balance.

www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au...


So, here we are. The vast majority of our future will be suffering from mental issues, unable to properly focus and may not even be able to stand up straight.

Do you see why I'm concerned and think how bad this is, and how if people would just have some damn respect we could be so much better off? I just feel sickened by the complete lack of care this world has nowadays. Why can't people just for a damn second think about the consequences of what they do, and how it will affect other people and them selves in the future and how it is important to abide by the law??


I'll quote one last piece of information from this site, I'm trying my best here to remain within the 33% information rule.

Serious injury or death
--
Young people are more likely to take risks when drinking. Alcohol is a significant factor in a range of risky situations, including:

Fighting or brawling
Drowning
Drug overdose
Self-harm or suicide.

www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au...

This, this is something I hear and see too often. Drunken brawls, kids getting killed, bashed up, over dosing, or whatever. I... really don't know how to elaborate any further, I just hope you can see my side of it in some capacity. I am really growing weary of trying to get people to understand what is going on, how its bad and what they should be doing. But, if you insist I will keep on trying to debate my point of view.

Again, I hope you can see where I'm coming from here and do take the liberty of reading all of this and truly think about what this all means.

Thanks.


reply to post by TheLaughingGod




It's just a chance from a synthetic chemical "sort of like" marijuana. We don't know the real world effects of that yet.

-
Okay. I'll visit this thread later on, hoping I don't come back to some huge(r) flame war. I need a break.

Let's start by showing you this before I directly respond to your debating points...

Originally posted by shadowland8

But numerous studies proved that it is linked, and it wasn't mentioned (and it would've if there was) that it was due to social issues/peer pressure.

Illogical example: "Studies show that individuals who experience vehicle accident's also learned to ride bikes as children, so bike riding is connected as a gateway precursor to the majority of all vehicle wrecks"

I know many individuals who have exclusively consume cannabis for a long period, and I know a few individuals that like opiates, I know a couple that safely and intelligently 'abuse' pharmaceuticals, and I know none who consume meth.

So through experience alone, I can debunk such propaganda.

Common sense tells me that individuals who are likely to consume dangerous narcotics and the like, are first likely (but not always) going to experiment with cannabis first, because it is more common place and easier to obtain. Those same individuals will make personal choices to try other drugs if and when they are available.

Do you know how many individuals get hooked on prescribed opiates first without never consuming cannabis?

Am I interested in opiates? No, because I'm properly educated and wise on the matter, as well as the fact I've tried opiates such as Vicodin and Morphine, I was mostly displeased with it's affects. (Mind you that they WERE prescribed for a serious injury during an ER visit.)

The chemicals in question here are not good though.

Unless you are constantly inhaling burning fumes, I'd be more worried about the 'fresh' air you breathe every moment of your life. To be realistic, for the average person, 1 to 5 five inhales usually suffices for up to two hours at a time, (variables include tolerance, and the quality of the content; higher the quality of the organic matter, the less that needs to be inhaled, thus less carcinogens.) Assuming from experience and observation, the majority of people who consume cannabis daily do so 1 - 3 times a day, consumption may be higher in a social setting. There are also those who only desire to consume it a couple times a week.

A high percentage of crops are also grown strictly organic because many do care about their health... probably far more than even you.

...including at least 66 other cannabinoids (cannabidiol (CBD), cannabinol (CBN) and tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV), etc.) which can result in different effects from those of THC alone.[7]

en.wikipedia.org...(drug)

Cannabinoids are a good thing, and NOT toxic. It is literally infeasible possible to overdose on cannabanoids (How ever it may cause interactions with predisposed illnesses or prescription drugs)

"which can result in different effects from those of THC alone"
That's also not an argument to diswade cannabis proponents for obvious reasons.

There has never been a documented human fatality from overdosing on tetrahydrocannabinol or cannabis in its natural form ... One estimate of THC's LD50 for humans indicates that about 1,500 pounds (680 kg) of cannabis would have to be smoked within 14 minutes

Source

Sure, but we've come to the conclusion in that regard that it's doing you no favours, really. And from what I know, the most common method is via smoking it.

No favors eh?

A number of studies show that THC provides medical benefits for cancer and AIDS patients by increasing appetite and decreasing nausea. It has also been shown to assist some glaucoma patients by reducing pressure within the eye, and is used in the form of cannabis by a number of multiple sclerosis patients, who use it to alleviate neuropathic pain and spasticity. ... THC and other cannabinoid agonists have been shown to be beneficial both in open label studies, as well as in laboratory experiments with animals to ameliorate post-traumatic stress disorders.

Source



Edibles are an extremely common form of consumption, and vaporization is a healthy alternative that is rapidly becoming the second most common form of consumption.

MENTAL HEALTH, BRAIN FUNCTION, AND MEMORY: It has been suggested that marijuana is at the root of many mental disorders, including acute toxic psychosis, panic attacks (one of the very conditions it is being used experimentally to treat), flashbacks, delusions, depersonalization, hallucinations, paranoia, depression, and uncontrollable aggressiveness. Marijuana has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia. This connection with mental illness should make health care providers for terminally ill patients and the patients themselves, who may already be suffering from some form of clinical depression, weigh very carefully the pros and cons of adopting a therapeutic course of marijuana.

In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.

cyber.law.harvard.edu...

Imagine that, on the developing adolescent brain?
Also, don't threaten me by saying you'll report me to the moderator, you're lucky I decided to oversee the fact earlier you mentioned I come off as being someone homicidal.

Obviously, it 'might' surface those issues in those who have predisposed with such vulnerabilities and likely to develop them in the first place. Using that information alone to base your conclusion is extremely unrealistic. How often is it that you hear personally from someone who has tried cannabis properly that they largely had a negative experience? Personally, only once.

Also, do I advocate that adolescents consume cannabis regularly? No. Flip side how ever I know an individual in his late 30's who has consumed it since 6th grade, and he is rather inteligent I might add.

Not that I am stating many arguments from experience and observation, not speculative argument.

What do the studies say about marijuana and mental health?

Many studies have been suggested that marijuana is the root cause of many mental disorders.

Several studies have documented marijuana linked with symptoms of schizophrenia and report that it is an independent risk factor for schizophrenia.

Heavy marijuana users are almost seven times more likely than non-users to be diagnosed with schizophrenia later in life.

A recent study found that that the earlier the use of marijuana (age 15 vs. age 18), the greater the risk of schizophrenia.

A study based on data from the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse found that teenagers 12 to 17 who smoke marijuana weekly are three times more likely to have thoughts of committing suicide.

Studies show that marijuana use during adolescence increases the risk of psychotic disorders in adulthood.

A study published in 2005 found that regular use of marijuana may double the risk of developing psychotic disorders and that marijuana causes chemical changes to the brain.

Some research shows that marijuana use can precede symptoms of depression.

Girls (ages 14 to 15) who used marijuana daily were five times more likely to face depression at age 21.

smoking.ygoy.com...

I absolutely love how that article didn't cite their sources so I could confirm their statements

Originally posted by NadaCambia

en.wikipedia.org...

The benefits evidently outweight the 'cons'.

Debatable, as we've seen

Not as debatable as your trying to make it appear to be.

Sure, there are some cons, just like eating too much milk chocolate.

So, here we are. The vast majority of our future will be suffering from mental issues, unable to properly focus and may not even be able to stand up straight.

Okay, here is where I draw the line and say... SERIOUSLY?

It's not like cannabis is some new unknown drug on the rage with unknown affects.





Sure, it's a bias source, but the opposition isn't likely to try and shine a light on the history of cannabis use.

Must I continue this debate? You do make some valid points, but everything you state appears to be a desperate argument and blown out of proportion in the process. In the process, it's also apparent that you are miss-educated, and advocate ignorance and sheltering as well. An ignorance society is not an inteligent society. I'll leave it at this.

I must ask... why is cannabis a Schedule 1 drug in the U.S.? And why are opiates more common use in medicine if they are far more dangerous?

I must also add this hysterical source.

National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse

The National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse was created by Public Law 91-513 to study marijuana abuse in the United States


On March 22, 1972, the Commission's chairman, Raymond P. Shafer, presented a report to Congress and the public entitled "Marijuana, A Signal of Misunderstanding," which favored ending marijuana prohibition and adopting other methods to discourage use.

...

The Commission recommended decriminalization of simple possession, finding:

The criminal law is too harsh a tool to apply to personal possession even in the effort to discourage use. It implies an overwhelming indictment of the behavior which we believe is not appropriate. The actual and potential harm of use of the drug is not great enough to justify intrusion by the criminal law into private behavior, a step which our society takes only 'with the greatest reluctance.

...

The Nixon administration did not implement the study's recommendations; and in fact, while the study was pending, Nixon attempted to influence the result by telling Shafer, "You're enough of a pro to know that for you to come out with something that would run counter to what the Congress feels and what the country feels, and what we're planning to do, would make your commission just look bad as hell."However, the report has frequently been cited by individuals supporting removal of cannabis from Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act

Source

Here's some advice for 18 year olds from a parent.

Live yourself some life before you give advice to parents because most 18 year olds only 'think' they know it all..

Seriously, the utter cheek of this thread annoys and amuses me at the same time.

After reading the first page, I'd have to include internet to that list. I'd tell kids to put a heavy limit on the things they use the internet for. Not for entertainment for one thing. To research and learn, that'd be ok. Take the internet as simply a book. You can't talk to a book, can communicate with it, ect. I think it'd be best to keep it as a book, not much more.

Video games I would say are far, far more innocent compared to the internet. Video gaming was in the past a solitary activity, which is good. But even now there is more online communication in video games, which would be better to do without honestly. It's too distracting.

Internet for me came out about in middle school, I've seen the before and after. Times were better for kids without the internet...just my opinion/observation on that.

As far as cannabis....no. There's people that have had panic attacks triggered while on it, and months later they still suffer from them. The risk outweighs the benefit.

As far as cannabis....no. There's people that have had panic attacks triggered while on it, and months later they still suffer from them. The risk outweighs the benefit.

Not to be condescending but panic attacks are not a sound argument against cannabis use.

Panic Attacks are largely associated with a lot of stress, post traumatic stress disorder, or phobias and such.

In contrary, a personal friend of mine consumes cannabis to treat his post traumatic stress disorder, and commonly experiences panic attacks and deep anxiety if he is not medicating on cannabis. His other alternative is Xanax, a dangerous drug that he only consumes on occasion with caution.

On the flip side, there are very few instances where user's, usually inexperienced and their first time where they will encounter a frightening and stressful trip. This is usually associated with the environment, and the amount/type of cannabis they use. Of course some individuals are pre-dispositioned to be more vulnerable than the majority public.

Such events rarely occure, and can often be prevented and remedied by responsible parents providing the appropriate security of the home; being a comfortable environment where the individual can safely experiment with the knowledge of the parents.

The last thing you wish to do is chase your children away. If they are interested, they will try it regardless if you want them to or not. The difference in safety is to accept this facts and provide them with security and comfort, rather than chase them away where they will do it with their friends first with out your knowledge.

These are examples proper parenting:

I understand that aspect, but for first timers that are on the fence, might want to pass. If cannabis goes well, you have a fun time, if not, you can get chronic panic attacks after that, that more than likely will get treated with prescription meds. I'm not anticannabis, but there are people reporting mental health problems after, triggered from cannabis.

op - from a 26 year old father of one, you still have many many many things to learn.

Sorry, but although you have sense in some of your points, you have no idea what being responsible adult is about - let alone a responsible parent.

reply to post by Turq1


Thank-you for making that clear. Likewise I appreciate the balanced perspective and I respect your position on the matter.

Originally posted by Scarcer

Illogical example: "Studies show that individuals who experience vehicle accident's also learned to ride bikes as children, so bike riding is connected as a gateway precursor to the majority of all vehicle wrecks"

I know many individuals who have exclusively consume cannabis for a long period, and I know a few individuals that like opiates, I know a couple that safely and intelligently 'abuse' pharmaceuticals, and I know none who consume meth.

So through experience alone, I can debunk such propaganda.

Common sense tells me that individuals who are likely to consume dangerous narcotics and the like, are first likely (but not always) going to experiment with cannabis first, because it is more common place and easier to obtain. Those same individuals will make personal choices to try other drugs if and when they are available.

Do you know how many individuals get hooked on prescribed opiates first without never consuming cannabis?

Am I interested in opiates? No, because I'm properly educated and wise on the matter, as well as the fact I've tried opiates such as Vicodin and Morphine, I was mostly displeased with it's affects. (Mind you that they WERE prescribed for a serious injury during an ER visit.)

Riding a bike doesn't completely screw your brain up, unless you were to fall off it and slam your head. So no, your example is terrible.

Great, so you're another user who's affiliated with druggies and has been using them for a long time. Oh boy, this will be filled with logic!

How reliable is your experience, really? Your perception of reality is warped, with constant abuse of drugs.

Right, so you're so educated and wise on the matter, that you get involved with the illegal stuff, but abstain from the legal painkillers, but still justify their use by saying they got prescribed? Haha ok.

Also, the video stops his from shaking but it's hardly a good treatment/cure. That's just going to do more damage to him in the long run. I feel sorry for the guy and look forward to medical science to make the appropriate medication for MS.

Unless you are constantly inhaling burning fumes, I'd be more worried about the 'fresh' air you breathe every moment of your life. To be realistic, for the average person, 1 to 5 five inhales usually suffices for up to two hours at a time, (variables include tolerance, and the quality of the content; higher the quality of the organic matter, the less that needs to be inhaled, thus less carcinogens.) Assuming from experience and observation, the majority of people who consume cannabis daily do so 1 - 3 times a day, consumption may be higher in a social setting. There are also those who only desire to consume it a couple times a week.

A high percentage of crops are also grown strictly organic because many do care about their health... probably far more than even you.

I'm not sure this above text is helping you debate your side of the argument?

...including at least 66 other cannabinoids (cannabidiol (CBD), cannabinol (CBN) and tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV), etc.) which can result in different effects from those of THC alone.[7]

en.wikipedia.org...(drug)

Cannabinoids are a good thing, and NOT toxic. It is literally infeasible possible to overdose on cannabanoids (How ever it may cause interactions with predisposed illnesses or prescription drugs)

"which can result in different effects from those of THC alone"
That's also not an argument to diswade cannabis proponents for obvious reasons.

There has never been a documented human fatality from overdosing on tetrahydrocannabinol or cannabis in its natural form ... One estimate of THC's LD50 for humans indicates that about 1,500 pounds (680 kg) of cannabis would have to be smoked within 14 minutes

Source

You're much better off without them.

No favors eh?

A number of studies show that THC provides medical benefits for cancer and AIDS patients by increasing appetite and decreasing nausea. It has also been shown to assist some glaucoma patients by reducing pressure within the eye, and is used in the form of cannabis by a number of multiple sclerosis patients, who use it to alleviate neuropathic pain and spasticity. ... THC and other cannabinoid agonists have been shown to be beneficial both in open label studies, as well as in laboratory experiments with animals to ameliorate post-traumatic stress disorders.

Source


Edibles are an extremely common form of consumption, and vaporization is a healthy alternative that is rapidly becoming the second most common form of consumption.

So you get a slight relief, at the cost of reduced brain function. SUPER! By the end of it, you'll be a drooling sack of nothing, unable to do anything or feel anything.

So keep it up I guess if that's what you want.

Obviously, it 'might' surface those issues in those who have predisposed with such vulnerabilities and likely to develop them in the first place. Using that information alone to base your conclusion is extremely unrealistic. How often is it that you hear personally from someone who has tried cannabis properly that they largely had a negative experience? Personally, only once.

Also, do I advocate that adolescents consume cannabis regularly? No. Flip side how ever I know an individual in his late 30's who has consumed it since 6th grade, and he is rather inteligent I might add.

Not that I am stating many arguments from experience and observation, not speculative argument.

We probably have fairly different definitions of "intelligent". Also, it only occurs in the teenagers who have done it, and in more cases than not you do see the effects. At any rate, I stay the hell away from all druggies, so just looking at sources I can tell it does alter your brain enough for it to be a bad experience in the end.

Not as debatable as your trying to make it appear to be.

Sure, there are some cons, just like eating too much milk chocolate.

And the problem is, these druggies won't stop. They do use it too much. So it's an issue.

Okay, here is where I draw the line and say... SERIOUSLY?

It's not like cannabis is some new unknown drug on the rage with unknown affects.


Sure, it's a bias source, but the opposition isn't likely to try and shine a light on the history of cannabis use.

You do make some valid points, but everything you state appears to be a desperate argument and blown out of proportion in the process. In the process, it's also apparent that you are miss-educated, and advocate ignorance and sheltering as well. An ignorance society is not an inteligent society. I'll leave it at this.

I must ask... why is cannabis a Schedule 1 drug in the U.S.? And why are opiates more common use in medicine if they are far more dangerous?

So people, hundreds of years ago, used the stuff. Great. Do you know that with what we know today, those people were effectively morons? I don't really see how its a good thing and shows its ok to do weed if some ancient tribe took the stuff. Also, how does hemp paper make smoking the stuff ok?

You're right, it is biased, and its advertising for a TV show, too.

opiates are not "far more dangerous". I've given you a plethora of reasons why cannabis should remain as an illicit drug.

Must I continue this debate?

Well, I'm not gonna give up. So....

Has anyone mentioned: Pot being "illegal" and generally supplied in an underground fashion.you don't know what has been applied to that plant pre or post harvest. ....
Just tossin' that out; not joining the "discussion"