Kabbalah, Qabalah, Occult/Esoteric Mystery Schools & The Contrast in Various Beliefs of "Enlightenm

Hi all,

So I have been studying Judaism (and some Kabbalah) and Buddhism and its views of Enlightenment for quite a while now. I have also recently (a little over a year ago) taken up a great interest in the Western Mystery Schools and their Occult/Esoteric teachings. Basically, I notice that there is a trend of similarity between the Jewish Kabbalah, the Mystery School's version of the Qabalah (and what little I know of it, I am basing this comment mostly off of reading the Kybalion, so please do not "ream" me for my ignorance), and the Buddhist version of Enlightenment.

Essentially, it seems to me that each of these three systems of thought all teach the same thing, that is, to be ultimately unified with God/The All/Nirvana. I was wondering, could some of you who are greater scholars in these fields than I explain to me the differences/similarities between Kabbalah, the teachings of the Mystery Schools, and the Buddhist view of Enlightenment? I know a good deal about the first and third of these, but not as much about the Mystery Schools' views, so I am not 100% sure how to pose this question without being provided with some background first.

I feel though, that each of these schools of thought are essentially teaching the same goal, but with a different path -- what are your thoughts?

Edit: I hope that no one minds that I am not posing a "direct" question, I mean to foster discussion on this area in this thread, rather than simply get a single question answered. Also, if you are wondering how this relates to the forum and the topic of "Secret Societies," I plan to connect this all back to the modern day Mystery Schools/Buddhist Religion/Jewish Kabbalah, once I receive some responses that will foster the discussion on this topic. Thanks!

There is a book that would be of great help to you, alas, I forgot the author, but it is called "The Tao of Pooh". Buddhism turns away from the material world in hopes of finding nirvana, while the ancient Jewish Kabbalah follows after the pattern of finding God through its own path.
I started my journey of self discovery when still in my teens, and from experience I can tell you that you will need to taste many wines before you find what is pleasing to your palate. Even then, just as the mortal coil that holds us here, our perspectives change with time and our palates mature with age, finding what was delightful in youth perhaps too cloying and no longer as delightful as another vintage. Do not assume that those who walked before are or were infallible; granted they were wise, and they have important lessons to teach, but within you is the ultimate teacher, reason. Along with your esoteric studies it would be prudent to consider Aristotle's writings when taking a break from heavier reading. Whatever you do though, do not turn away from the beauty and joy that is had from ALL aspects of existence, be it on this plane or another. Develop your sense of humor, your sense of truth, and keep at all times your mind open. The older and more popular the tomes you seek to learn from, the more they may have been tampered with by writers who did not have the best of intentions in mind for the readers, thus you can see how such things could be used as tools for one's personal gain instead of the greater good for the masses. The Torah was and is very accurate, I would assume, but keep in mind assumption is the mother of all mistakes. Question, and if your questions offend, question even more. Persist in your path to truth, endure the Dark Night of The Soul, and you will come out of the Abyss of Ignorance renewed and reborn. To quote Einstien, "God exists in all that does exist", so within every dream, every vast space between stars, in the eyes of one you love, and most of all yourself, there is God.

reply to post by volafox


Wow! Well said! I really enjoyed reading your post, and I believe I understand what you meant. That is to say, to experience as much as I can, and find the path that resonates greatest with me for the moment, but keep my mind open to other paths, as the current path might not be the right one for me tomorrow, as it is today. Thank you my friend

reply to post by Dokuja


Whats up, Dokuja. Hope you are having a nice day

Nice post, Volafox.

Regarding the Jewish Kabbalah and the Esoteric Qabalah. I'm not an expert or anything but I believe most people who are into the jewish kabbalah are jewish or heavily into judaism and study the torah....etc and the qabalah just takes the kabalahs ideas and applies them to hermeticism/occultism. I could be completely wrong but this is how I understand it because I often see people into jewish kabalah often saying stuff like esoteric qabalah isnt "real" kabbalah....etc.

I agree with you that the goal of western systems of esoteric/occultism/mysticism is essentially the same as buddhism...etc. Knowledge of Self.... become "enlightened"... become one with creator.. etc. Also I've noticed the western traditions are essentially just a blending of ideas/practices from a variety of philosophies/religions...etc. Like using meditation.... yoga....etc. People often call magick/occultism the "yoga of the west". But like I said I am no expert, I am like you and have just started this path within the last couple of years.

Also this is kinda unrelated to this particular thread but I've noticed you posting in other threads here asking about the different groups/orders and I was looking into these orders also a couple months back and was trying to find a golden dawn order to join but I gave up on that because a lot of these modern orders seem to have screwed with the original teachings of the gd and have added there own things...etc. But you can do "self initiation" and basically do everything you'd do in a order, yourself. Me and my wife and a few friends are making out own personal golden dawn, we are going to make a temple in friends house who have a huge extra room that we can set up to be used as a temple, my wifes father and mother are incredibly knowledgable on gd and hermeticism/occultism..etc and have studied since the 60s they are going to help with it. Creating our personal group with friends might sound funny to some people but in my opinion its better than joining some corrupted orgination filled with in-fighting and other bs like that.

There are many books on the gd and a lot u can find for free online.Heres a link to a GREAT and completely thorough book on the gd teachings that you can read online or download... It was compiled/written by israel regardie and a few others just before he died in the 80's. "The Complete Golden Dawn System Magic" www.scribd.com... . Heres a link to to a search for "Golden Dawn" on that same site, tons of books you can read online or download... www.scribd.com... .You might have to join that site to read them, but its free anyways, and scribd.com is a AMAZING site it has so many freaking books on anything u can think of. Also I've been looking at this book called "Self Initiation Into the Golden Dawn" that seems pretty cool too, its written by Chic Cicero who was a student of Israel Regardie... U can read lots of it for free on google books books.google.com... 8&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q&f=false .

Also obviously the g.d isnt the only path to take but its one I really like, I also study many other things though. And once again I'm no expert of any of this stuff, but I am just starting on this path like you and thought I'd share the way I'm going about it.

There is one group I'd reccomend joining, The Builders of the Adytum. www.bota.org... . It is 15 dollars a month and each month they send you lessons, I've only recieved the first lessons as I've only been a member a month but they seem very good, and everyone I've talked to says its they are great. I've hardly heard a bad thing about this group. Paul Foster Case was a member of the original golden and created the bota in 1920s.

Sorry for going kind of off topic to what your original post was about but I just noticed you asking about golden dawn in other threads but thought I'd just give you my response here.

Peace and have a great day/night!

reply to post by Dokuja


You have a somewhat superficial understanding of Kabbalah.

While both Kabbalah and Vedanta, or Sufism, or the western occult tradition are focused on the spiritual, one cannot separate these various traditions from their exoteric framework.

Sufism, Vedanta and the western occult tradition have alot in common.

Kabbalah, however, is very different from these traditions.

For one, Kabbalah is very scientific and methodical about the nature of reality. It discusses 4 planes in reality, with a hidden fifth, and 10 archetypal qualities that are expressed in every structure throughout creation.

Kabbalah is more a theoretical metaphysics, than it is a "mysticism". Although the knowledge initself is 'mystical', it is very different from what one typically finds in other esoteric schools of thought

Those who take kabbalah motifs and combine them with gnosticism, have created a hybrid. The original kabbalah, of Isaac Luria, Moshe Cordevero, Zohar, Bahir, Nachmanides, etc ie; the Rabbinic esoteric tradition, is entirely at one with its outer aspect, Judaism. And to separate it from Judaism would be merely to apply its metaphysical framework (10 sefirot, 4 worlds, divine names) to another philosophical system.

Most people look disparingly on Judaism not knowing that these "laws" all reflect kabbalistic principles. And indeed are very profound. Ironically enough, those who are most vitriolic in their derision of Judaism, are gnostics who themselves are fully acquainted with Kabbalistic ideas. Yet these types choose to ignore the fact that Kabbalah is fully itself when it is expressed through the vessel of Judaism.

Of course us gentiles can study Kaballah, and grow in understanding of reality through it. G-d wants that. But to claim that it is just as much ours, even though it was preserved by the Jewish sages, is a tad petty in my opinion. Its not to imply that other peoples dont know G-d, but they dont know him, and havent recieved such an accurate tradition of reality, like the Jewish sages have.

The Kabbalah goes back to Abraham, who is regarded as the author of the Sepher Yetzirah (the most basic kabbalistic text, aside from the Bahir).

Infact, one of the main reasons ancient peoples disliked the Jews was because of their insular nature. They didnt usually socialize with other peoples thus insuring that their tradition, and their language (hebrew) would be preserved from corruption. The problem isnt so much the Jews wanting to keep the knowledge of G-d to themselves, but moreso safeguarding it from the amoral pagans living around them. It is precisely these sort of people who would take advantage of this knowledge. And indeed, they did take advantage of it.

Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
reply to post by Dokuja

 

Whats up, Dokuja. Hope you are having a nice day

Nice post, Volafox.

Regarding the Jewish Kabbalah and the Esoteric Qabalah. I'm not an expert or anything but I believe most people who are into the jewish kabbalah are jewish or heavily into judaism and study the torah....etc and the qabalah just takes the kabalahs ideas and applies them to hermeticism/occultism. I could be completely wrong but this is how I understand it because I often see people into jewish kabalah often saying stuff like esoteric qabalah isnt "real" kabbalah....etc.

I agree with you that the goal of western systems of esoteric/occultism/mysticism is essentially the same as buddhism...etc. Knowledge of Self.... become "enlightened"... become one with creator.. etc. Also I've noticed the western traditions are essentially just a blending of ideas/practices from a variety of philosophies/religions...etc. Like using meditation.... yoga....etc. People often call magick/occultism the "yoga of the west". But like I said I am no expert, I am like you and have just started this path within the last couple of years.

Also this is kinda unrelated to this particular thread but I've noticed you posting in other threads here asking about the different groups/orders and I was looking into these orders also a couple months back and was trying to find a golden dawn order to join but I gave up on that because a lot of these modern orders seem to have screwed with the original teachings of the gd and have added there own things...etc. But you can do "self initiation" and basically do everything you'd do in a order, yourself. Me and my wife and a few friends are making out own personal golden dawn, we are going to make a temple in friends house who have a huge extra room that we can set up to be used as a temple, my wifes father and mother are incredibly knowledgable on gd and hermeticism/occultism..etc and have studied since the 60s they are going to help with it. Creating our personal group with friends might sound funny to some people but in my opinion its better than joining some corrupted orgination filled with in-fighting and other bs like that.

There are many books on the gd and a lot u can find for free online.Heres a link to a GREAT and completely thorough book on the gd teachings that you can read online or download... It was compiled/written by israel regardie and a few others just before he died in the 80's. "The Complete Golden Dawn System Magic" www.scribd.com... . Heres a link to to a search for "Golden Dawn" on that same site, tons of books you can read online or download... www.scribd.com... .You might have to join that site to read them, but its free anyways, and scribd.com is a AMAZING site it has so many freaking books on anything u can think of. Also I've been looking at this book called "Self Initiation Into the Golden Dawn" that seems pretty cool too, its written by Chic Cicero who was a student of Israel Regardie... U can read lots of it for free on google books books.google.com... 8&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q&f=false .

Also obviously the g.d isnt the only path to take but its one I really like, I also study many other things though. And once again I'm no expert of any of this stuff, but I am just starting on this path like you and thought I'd share the way I'm going about it.

There is one group I'd reccomend joining, The Builders of the Adytum. www.bota.org... . It is 15 dollars a month and each month they send you lessons, I've only recieved the first lessons as I've only been a member a month but they seem very good, and everyone I've talked to says its they are great. I've hardly heard a bad thing about this group. Paul Foster Case was a member of the original golden and created the bota in 1920s.

Sorry for going kind of off topic to what your original post was about but I just noticed you asking about golden dawn in other threads but thought I'd just give you my response here.

Peace and have a great day/night!

edit on 18-3-2011 by jeasahtheseer because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-3-2011 by jeasahtheseer because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the links guys and your opinions,i also am starting out on these paths .Volafox and Dokuja stars all the way. Dokuja i hope they dont mind me saying this Josh and Masonic light i always found helped me a lot in things esoterica,hopefully they will be on soon and there really decent people.
shadow flux helped me also,many thanks to all that have

reply to post by jeasahtheseer


My friend,

Thank you so much for your explanation and your thoughts on this topic, they were very helpful! I will also check out those links that you mentioned and look into studying these things on my own. The thing is, I was already planning on doing a lot of these things by self-study, but I also feel that it is important to be a member of an organization of this sort, as that brings you into the community of practitioners, and I believe that this would be very helpful in my studies as well. Thanks again!

P.S. Johnny C -- I am glad that my post helped to foster this discussion and I am happy that it is bringing us both more Light!!!

reply to post by dontreally


Fascinating post, my friend! I am actually Jewish and I have been studying Tanya (Kabbalah for practical application) with a Chasidic Rabbi for quite some time now. Besides that, I do not know much of the Jewish Kabbalah, but seeing as how I do not really consider myself to be Jewish, besides the fact that I believe in the Jewish G-d and pray to Him daily, and consider myself to be "culturally Jewish," I essentially do not feel any connection with the rest of the religion, and I disagree with a lot of its fundamental beliefs. So with that being said, this is why I am trying to branch out and explore the Western Occult/Esoteric/Mystery School traditions, as I feel that they take what I love from Judaism, and combine it with others things and belief systems that resonate with me much more greatly. I hope that makes some sense...I guess, my question is, how is the Jewish Kabbalah really different from the other forms of Kabbalah, i.e. Qabalah? Is it just that these other Kabbalistic traditions have removed the Judaic element from them...or?

reply to post by Dokuja

" I essentially do not feel any connection with the rest of the religion, and I disagree with a lot of its fundamental beliefs. So with that being said, this is why I am trying to branch out and explore the Western Occult/Esoteric/Mystery School traditions, as I feel that they take what I love from Judaism, and combine it with others things and belief systems that resonate with me much more greatl

With all due respect, your making a collosal mistake.

I study other religions. Im a gentile. I have many books on vedanta, hermeticism/gnosticism/alchemy, Sufism and i can only tell you what a mistake this assumption of yours is! A HUGE mistake.

How can one so fortunate to be born into Judaism, honestly think that Judaism is just another man0made religion? What kind of chassidic rabbi are you learning with? Frankly, he has done a shoddy job justifying the uniqueness of Torah, and the Hebrew language, and the Kabbalah.

For intellectual stimulation, i read other secular philosophies. I read up on christian mysticism, Islamic mysticism (sufism) because i think its worth knowing something about it. You too can do that. But please for the love of HaShem, do not be so crude to think that Judaism is 'just another religion'. Every teaching, handing down through the tradition (mesorah) is absolutely true for the Jew.

The 7 laws of Noach (a concept you should read up on) is for the rest of mankind. The singular purpose of the Jewish people has been MORAL. The pagan religions ie; those 'western esoteric traditions' (which are based primarely on pagan Greek/Egyptian/Babylonian theology) will only confuse you and push you further away from Judaism if you study them on the premise that they have some worthy aspect that you can adapt to your belief system, even if it contradicts the basic tenets of Judaism.

All world spiritual traditions have interesting things to offer. I dont mean to present them as worthless. However, many of these traditions are antinomian, meaning they have a sheer disdain for laws and structure, whch typify Judaism.

Modern antisemitism is an expression of this pagan jealousy and or resentment of the Jews. Its a combination of guilt (that is, their own guilt, which is than projected on the Jew, who they than seek to eliminate. Notice that a feature of these philosophical systems is 'mercy', and 'freedom' and liberalism - liber, the source of the english word liberal, being the roman equivalent of Dionysus, which in Greek can be rearranged to mean nous dios 'mind of god') and hate for G-d. What they despise is the need for mankind to discipline themselves. There philosophical traditions make the idea of divine purpose, or of a G-d who is directly involved with worldy affairs, completely irrelevant (for instance, see Machiavellis 'the prince' written in 26 chapters. The 26th chapter dealing with the new prince, or monarch. 26 of course being the value of G-ds divine name. The elite of Europe are concerned with creating a god in mans image). Do not be so naive to think that Judaism is just another religion. It most certainly is NOT.

I hope that makes some sense...I guess, my question is, how is the Jewish Kabbalah really different from the other forms of Kabbalah, i.e. Qabalah?

Qabalah is hermeticism combined with Basic kabbalistic concepts. It only resembles kabbalah EXTERNALLY. Internally, a different philosophy propels it. Hermeticism is essentially gnosticism which is in its simplest form is a secular religion. Gnostics regarded the Jewish G-d as Demiurge, or a false 'archon' or power which believes itself to be the creator of the universe. Gnostics are DUALISTS. They do not submit to the concept of an all powerful creator G-d. They believe the demiurge to be the artificer, who created this world from a prexisting primordial matter - the divine feminine. Gnostics, in other words, place EMOTION, that is, the femine, ahead of the intellect, which is masculine. Instead of reasoning that G-d is beyond both male and female, and only in his interaction with man does he assume the position of masculine (that is, the active, guiding force) they instead ignore this phenomena. We our the feminine, because we are the created reality. The creator of the universe than by necessity when interacting with man does so as a masculine G-d. The feminine, rthe Shekinah, is the indwelling presence within created reality. It is all things created, both spiritual and physical. G-d however is outside this framework. When YHVH decided to introduce himself to man, he did so as a patriarchial figure. Mankind therefore is his bethrothed, his 'wife'.

Gnostics are simply stupid, and egotistical. And Gnosticism promotes egotism and leads one down a very negative path.

I can only restate and emhpasize that you have a gem in Judaism. The animal soul inside you tells you that this is all "boring". That laws are meaningless, or inthemselves completely unnecessaery.

There are two sparks within each of us. The divine soul, the Neshama, and the animal soul, the Nefesh. The Nefesh wants to settle, to relax and do what is convenient for it. Therefore, it leads one down the path towards evil if not restrained by the divine Neshama. The Neshama looks outside itself. It sees a unity beyond itself and reaches for it. The Neshama is responsible for spiritual growth. It sees possibilities, and labors to make them realities. Right now, your animal soul dominates your mind. Most of us are like this. I myself am in the same position. But, we must be aware what is going on. We must see that our current desires are not always the right desires. Desires, are an extension of ones very self. What one DOES, is a reflection of what one IS. to change ones spiritual nature, his soul, one has to realize what is truly best for himself.

Its a tricky situation to be in. The animal soul tries to justify its desires as good and correct. It is remarkably stubborn and fixed in its habits. However, understand why you reject Judaism.

What about Judaism do you reject?

Thank you for that post. You are correct in what you say. The thing is, I do not reject the Jewish G-d, nor do I reject Judaism completely. What I reject is the way in which the religion is practiced and it simply does not appeal to me. I went to a Jewish Day school from 3rd - 12th grade, traveled to Israel for 3 months, studied with various Rabbis, and I know that Judaism is valuable. But at the current time, now, it is not "right" for me. I do not feel much affinity for it in terms of practice...and that is exactly what I am looking for, a religion to practice. I do not enjoy the way that Judaism is practiced and it does "nothing" for me that I can feel spiritually. I understand what you say about the two souls, and I have studied that concept with my Rabbi before. I understand and agree with it. And you are probably right. My Nefesh is overcoming my Jewish Neshamah, but...this is my life, and should I not do what feels right, lest I live a life that /feels/ as though it has no spiritual meaning? Should I practice something that does not resonate with me, just because I know it is right, and others say it to be right? I know that Judaism is the right path...in the ultimate sense...but I feel that I am not quite ready for that path yet. I think I need to travel, wander, and drift some more. Does this make sense? What are your thoughts, my friend?

Edit: I feel as though I need to know what else is out there before I return to my roots. It is sort of like how the Amish send their children out to see the rest of the world and then decide whether to return and be Amish or not. You need to know black to know white imho.

The Mysticall Qabala by Dion Fortune is very informative and available on scribd.com.

There are several others of her books you can download there.

reply to post by Maya00a


Thanks, I will check them out!!

Originally posted by Dokuja
Hi all,

So I have been studying Judaism (and some Kabbalah) and Buddhism and its views of Enlightenment for quite a while now. I have also recently (a little over a year ago) taken up a great interest in the Western Mystery Schools and their Occult/Esoteric teachings. Basically, I notice that there is a trend of similarity between the Jewish Kabbalah, the Mystery School's version of the Qabalah (and what little I know of it, I am basing this comment mostly off of reading the Kybalion, so please do not "ream" me for my ignorance), and the Buddhist version of Enlightenment.

See my essay On the Kabbalah. On Esoteric “Secrets.” A Luciferian Perspective. On the Prophet of the New Aeon. on: www.abovetopsecret.com... . My essay is of course designed to be a diabolical work of the most extreme Satanic heresy and blasphemy, and is designed to give offence and outrage to all orthodox Judaists and Christians, but it is also designed to save the student of the Kabballah and the seeker of esoteric knowledge many years of confusion. I have a much more diabolical and explicit version of the essay, however unfortunately I would be instantly excommunicated for posting it on a public American forum as it is rather pornographically explicit and explains the necessity for bestiality, homoeroticism, orgiastic sex, war, revolution and human sacrifice.

Regards

Lucifer

reply to post by Lucifer777


Do you see why gnosticism is truly, evil? This guy is a testament to what it can do to your mind.

Though, that being said, thanks for the honesty. To boldly admit, is something unusual for luciferians/satanists/gnostics. They usually play mind games. You come out and say exactly what you believe, and for that you deserve a star.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

Do you see why gnosticism is truly, evil? This guy is a testament to what it can do to your mind.

Though, that being said, thanks for the honesty. To boldly admit, is something unusual for luciferians/satanists/gnostics. They usually play mind games. You come out and say exactly what you believe, and for that you deserve a star.

Originally posted by dontreally

Modern antisemitism is an expression of this pagan jealousy and or resentment of the Jews. Its a combination of guilt (that is, their own guilt, which is than projected on the Jew, who they than seek to eliminate.

I think that you will find that there are far more Jewish humanists, atheists and Neopagans than there are orthodox Judaic fanatics.

Gnostics regarded the Jewish G-d as Demiurge, or a false 'archon' or power which believes itself to be the creator of the universe. Gnostics are DUALISTS. They do not submit to the concept of an all powerful creator G-d. They believe the demiurge to be the artificer, who created this world from a prexisting primordial matter - the divine feminine. Gnostics, in other words, place EMOTION, that is, the femine, ahead of the intellect, which is masculine. Instead of reasoning that G-d is beyond both male and female, and only in his interaction with man does he assume the position of masculine (that is, the active, guiding force) they instead ignore this phenomena. We our the feminine, because we are the created reality. The creator of the universe than by necessity when interacting with man does so as a masculine G-d. The feminine, rthe Shekinah, is the indwelling presence within created reality. It is all things created, both spiritual and physical. G-d however is outside this framework. When YHVH decided to introduce himself to man, he did so as a patriarchial figure. Mankind therefore is his bethrothed, his 'wife'.

Gnostics are simply stupid, and egotistical. And Gnosticism promotes egotism and leads one down a very negative path.

Well that is quite a ramble, but yes many Gnostics, especially the Christian Gnostics, have superiority complexes and consider themselves to be more "spiritual (whatever that means to them)" than humanists, atheists and Neopagans who are entirely in touch with Mother Nature and with their physical nature; many Gnostics are essentially human-nature-hating spiritualists, and thus malevolent and an abomination to the gods of nature.

"Gnosticism" by Crowley's definition combined a fascination for shamanic, psychoactive, narcotic and sexual experiences with a love of human nature and with total physical indulgence; it is quite a different brand of gnosticism which has been taken up by the New Age movement in general.

Lux

reply to post by Dokuja

My Nefesh is overcoming my Jewish Neshamah, but...this is my life, and should I not do what feels right, lest I live a life that /feels/ as though it has no spiritual meaning?

My friend, I know all too well this condition you are describing. I have been considering the conversion to Judaism for many years. I want to, but its lifestyle seems a bit too rigorous for me. BUT, however, i am a Gentile, not a Jew. I wasnt born a Jew, so therefore im given an option. You might consider that a blessing, and in a way it is. But on the other hand, one who has been born a Jew has been deliberately selected for a purpose in this world. The Torah says explicitly that the Jewish people are to be "priests unto the nations". A priestly class directly involved with divine reality.

The entire corpus of Jewish law, with its 613 laws and myriad details, are based on profound Kabbaistic ideas. Shabbat, and the laws that go with it, Purim, Yom kippur, etc, all these various laws have incredible depth. One who lives this life is literally involved in a divine drama. This cannot be compared to the practices of gentiles because one: their traditions are not the word of G-d, and werent transmitted through the holy tongue (Hebrew. The numerical value of Lashon HaKodesh is the exact same as Safat Echat - 'one language', mentioned in genesis! The other languages are among the 'confused tongues'. They each have some divine aspect, but this aspect also conceals, whereas Hebrew is completely at one with the creators mind - it is said to be his mind), so therefore there is human invention and convention amidst their traditions.

I have an extremely profound respect for Judaism and its teachers. I can only hope that you can snap this attitude you have and strive to give Judaism another chance. Beginnings are always the hardest. In the beginning, you usually dont enjoy it. In the beginning, i couldnt pick up a book on non-kabbalistic Jewish books and allow myself to be genuinely interested. But now, after UNDERSTANDING, and allowing that knowledge to affect my emotions, i have truly begun to experience the subtle joy that this brings. And im a gentile. For you, the experience should be greater. You have Klal Yisrael (community of Israel) to fall back upon. You have many around you who would be very happy to share their knowledge with you.

Whats going on in the world today is very much a battle between the Jews and the nations. Why else is Israel always in the news? Its not because it merits to be in the news (of the millions of refugees in the world, the palestinians recieve a substantially larger proportion of attention, money). There are many more stories worthy of attention. For christs sake, Jordan killed more Palestinians in 1970 (black september) than Israel has killed in its entire existence! Do you see what these people in power are doing?

Fact is. You may love the nations, but unfortunately, the historical record proves otherwise. Sooner or later (and in europe, anti-semitism has grown exponentially in the last few years, to many aghast Jews. Especially in france. Also this has been facilitated by growing Islamic pops.) the gentiles turn against the Jews. Look at how Israel was originally saw as the small guy. After 1967, propaganda changed that perception. Now today people equate Israel with Nazism (an ABSURDLY ridiculously comparison). Look at WW2. Look at what the germans, austrian, Polish, Czech, Romanian etc people did to the Jews. Look at the pograms in Russia. And this is only 20th century!.

I think I need to travel, wander, and drift some more. Does this make sense? What are your thoughts, my friend?

It does make sense. Hopefully you come to the conclusion that is the right one. A Jew needs his Judaism. The difference between Jews today, and in the past, is that you have the advantage of getting a very good Jewish education in Israel. Please take advantage of it.

I know the feelings you describe. I deal with that in different ways. Wanting to dally because i dont feel 'ready'. Its a bit of a risk. Cause you never know when G-d will expedite your decision making FOR YOU, by G-d forbid, bringing sufferring upon you.

The creator doesnt mean to hurt us by inflicting suffering on us. He wants us to AWAKEN to our purpose. He stuns us to force our action. Nothing G-d does is truly evil. There is always a hidden wisdom, and good behind his decrees. I should know. I have been dealt very difficult blows in my life which have helped me grow through them. I just simply trust his will, whether it benefits me or not, cause at the end of the day, what are we, besides an expression of him? I am truly him, and he wants me to recognize that.

reply to post by Lucifer777

I think that you will find that there are far more Jewish humanists, atheists and Neopagans than there are orthodox Judaic fanatics.

Ya, so? Is that because they have made a conscious decision, or because propaganda has made them that way?

What about Orthodox Jews and their practices is so anathema to you? Theyre peace loving, simple people. What about that deserves to be hated?

"Gnosticism" by Crowley's definition combined a fascination for shamanic, psychoactive, narcotic and sexual experiences with a love of human nature and with total physical indulgence; it is quite a different brand of gnosticism which has been taken up by the New Age movement in general.

I agree that gnosticism has too many to count manifestations. I use it in a very general way, and not in its strict sense as referring to the theological schools of Basilides, Valentinus, Marcion etc.

Your views on the other hand are COMPLETELY pagan, and entirely free from Jewish influence (which to you is tantamount to pure evil, im sure) whereas most forms of gnosticism, and New Age thought, have a clear Jewish influence in it, albeit, small, and subordinate to the pagan drive.

Your spirituality is the type Jung describes in 'wotan'. Wotanism seems to fit your attitude. Chaos as the 'supreme' force in creation.

All i can say is you are my sworn enemy, and the enemy of all that is good, and decent. You are what the Torah describes as Amalek - which has the same numeric value as Safuk - doubt. You embody the doubt in the good of man that you literally become a proponent of its opposite. Evil, hate, lies, perversion, corruption. Even beastiality, and human sacrifice are 'necessary' to you. I would actually be interested in learning how any of that is 'necessary'.

Also, isnt their a need to whitewash your beliefs? Isnt a tad risky of you to expose the 'real deal' practices of your humanistic, 'necessary' philosophy, which most of the worlds elite, subscribe to?

Originally posted by dontreally

My friend, I know all too well this condition you are describing. I have been considering the conversion to Judaism for many years. I want to, but its lifestyle seems a bit too rigorous for me.

Rigorous? No shellfish? No cutting of the beard and hair or pig eating? I am a shellfish eating heretic, but otherwise I am usually vegetarian. I only very occasionally indulge in flesh and blood, but I usually find it to be rather sickening.

And then consider the 613 Laws and the first 10 laws, 9 of which are executable offences; some of which I have gone out of my way to break, apart from theft and murder (unlawful killing) of course, but by the "lawful killing" edicts of the Bronze Age laws of Moses, I am guilty of all manner of offences such as serial adultery, having sex with Gentiles and Christian priests, blasphemy, heresy, worshipping other gods, profaning the Sabbath, etc. And I rejoice in my freedom, since I do no harm to any of the gods (human beings), nor do I violate their true will, nor have I ever, so I am sinless in my own way.

Torah says explicitly that the Jewish people are to be "priests unto the nations". A priestly class directly involved with divine reality.

Yes but they live in a world which has many other Jewish prophets, most of whom are atheist priests.

The entire corpus of Jewish law, with its 613 laws and myriad details, are based on profound Kabbaistic ideas. Shabbat, and the laws that go with it, Purim, Yom kippur, etc, all these various laws have incredible depth.

I think that you will find that most of the 21st century Jewish people reject the 613 laws. The younger generation are mostly creatures of the modern world are are more interested in getting stoned, drunk, laid and surviving in Capitalism

Fact is. You may love the nations, but unfortunately, the historical record proves otherwise. Sooner or later (and in europe, anti-semitism has grown exponentially in the last few years, to many aghast Jews. Especially in france. Also this has been facilitated by growing Islamic pops.) the gentiles turn against the Jews.

The modern Jewish people and the Europeans are totally assimilated. The European Gentiles of the youngest generation are mostly anti-racist, anti-homophobic, anti-religous and share a similar contempt of ancient religions such as Judaism, Chistianity, and islam as the Jewish youth do; we all share a justifable superiority complex.

Lux

reply to post by Lucifer777

9 of which are executable offences

An eye for an eye as explained by the Oral Tradition, describes metaphorically a proportional punishment. One who causes someone else to lose a hand isnt literally going to be punished by getting his hand chopped off. He will however be punished, whatever that may be (a long prison sentence, and a fine). The only offense garnering capital punishment is murder. All other punishments (theft, adultery) have fines or jail sentences. This isnt Sharia Law. The bibles edicts express dynamics of certain law. The literal interpretation is not always the most essential idea being conveyed.

Yes but they live in a world which has many other Jewish prophets, most of whom are atheist priests.

I dont understand this statement. The people of the world are not supposed to submit to the Jews. They ARE however supposed to submit to G-d, and therefore the Jewish conception of reality. G-d gave them this tradition, and they are the messengers. As is usual, the messenger suffers greatly for his unwanted message. The Jewish soul is imprinted with this mission, which is why they have managed to defy laws of history. Other peoples when persecuted succumb to assimilation or are completely wiped out. But the Jews? Even ancient writers like Porphery is amazed at their resilience. This ancient people have maintained customs that in Julians time (an emperor im sure you like) other people had abandoned. He respected their honoring the traditions of their anscestors.

Fast forward 2000 years, and this people still are a affront to the Pagans around them.

Also, in regards to your thread, you are completely wrong about Masonry. The royal families of Europe are thoroughly Pagan, and it is these people who have maintained the traditions of the ancient pagan writers (for instance, the church of rome which preserves pagan greek, and roman art. Or how bout the 4000 year old Egyptian obelisk from Helipolis standing in St. Peters basillica) to this day. They have HIDDEN themselves beneath christianity, which parades around as the new Israel, but in truth, and this is blatantly obvious to anyone who understands symbolism, Christianity and Islam are remnants of the same Pagan spirit. It is said that the gnostics in Rome intend to merge these two religions after their currently-being-orchestrated Islamist/Christian west confrontation results in a synthesis. A 'world' religion, that combines aspects of these various traditions, insuring the liberal pursuit of spirituality, minus of course orthodox Judaism, Christianity or Islam, which has a legalistic approach to divinity. You and them share the same philosophy, so it is mighty strange of you to target them.. but than again, its probavbly more a tactical move, than something you intellectually believe. You want to expose people to your belief system, without admitting that your on the same team as the illuminates.

Look at Bohemian grove as an example. The most powerful politicians in America, Europe, Business/Military/Industry magnates, Aristocrsts, all come here and engage in VERY pagan rites. How can you say the Owl of Athena is not a Pagan rite, that you yourself wouldnt celebrate? The Grove is completely and unequivocally pagan.

This is because secretly, the worlds elite, particularly European elite, have carried the seeds of paganism beneath the christian veneer. Even the Creation of christianity was a very well thought out mediator beetween the end of the Roman Era and the Age of Aquarius. The 2000 year interim was meant to produce the type of people that we have today. A completely ignorant, and dependant population. The antinomianism of Christianity led exactly to Romanticism, and the Secular revolution. It was completely obvious that this world be so.

Rome is the seat of temporal power. The very story of Romulus and Remus describes how kingdoms are made, and maintained, so dont be so naive to think that the Roman elite didnt plan this. They did, and today it bears its fruit.

Another very indicative feature of this truth, are the ridiculous longevity of the many noble houses of Europe. So many can be traced back to 400 CE, like Henri, Duke of Luxembourg, or Otto Van Habsburg, head of the house of lorraine-habsburg. The Massimo family of Rome goes back to the Maximi family of ancient Rome, and further back ot the Fabii.

This is the literal story of how society works. Christianity is actually a sham. Built on a political need to curb Jewish growth through proselytism (which was looked at as a big issue. See Apion, Juvenal, Petronius etc). And Masonry is headed by the Duke of Kent for a reason: it was a creation of the aristocracy to facilitate the NWO agenda into the New Aeon - Aquarius. This is all very reasonable speculation.

The modern Jewish people and the Europeans are totally assimilated.

Being assimilated means nothing. 85% of the Nazi victims of the holocaust were assimilated Jews who never believed that the "civilized" peoples of weimar Germany would ever in a million years commit genocide against them. It was completely irrational to think that. Infact, the bergsons (Peter Bergson, nephew of the Chief Rabbi of Israel, Abraham Isaac Kook) warned many Jews throughout Europe and specifically civilized Germany to get out. He obviously was watching the signs, and may have had some spiritual knowledge (his father, and his uncle were both spiritual giants in Kabbalah) that instructed him to warn others. The vast majority ignored his claims. Zeev Jabonisky also tried to warn Jews. None of these ignorant, assimilated arrogant ignoramuses cared to listen.

This is the culture that makes them better than educated religious people? Pfft. It enslaves you to the passions, or 'the gods', if you prefer. Truth is, G-d exists.

Does that possibility not frighten you? You must know that the probability of you being wrong is atleast 50/50. So why take such an obnxiously stupid risk?

Youre a Fool. And you like it, and love it, and you want some more of it.

The punishment (or moreso, the Lawful response of Elohim) for sins are said to be horrible, especially with regard to masturbation (Zohar is pretty emphatic about it). But for your sins? Which arent even sins. The Hebrew word for sin, Chet, means 'to miss the mark'. Like an accidental error. It something that should be fixed. Your behavior is complete 'to'eivah', abomination. A thoroughly narcissistic need to do exactly that which is counter-intuitive, as a way to fight off the G-d you know inutitively exists.

Maybe youre an amber in the air, waiting to extinguish. This life of yours your last and only, since were approaching the end of the 6000 years of 'work'. Does that not frighten you? Surely, you want to live. You want to exist, and have thoughts and feelings. Does the thought of a different destiny for you, as opposed to me, not bother you? Or is the thought too irrational to entertain? I know you dont care at all, and would never admit to being wrong.

Truth is, and it is very very obvious, you are wrong. Satanism, is wrong. SRA (Satanic ritual abuse, which im sure you also support, given your approving beastiality, human sacrifice) is Incredibly wrong. Torturing others is wrong.

All of this is wrong, and you know it, and you must also know it will lead to your eventual destruction, which in anycase is something you probably want. You satanists are TWISTED people, like the roots of the Egyptian tree of Life - the fig tree. You are absorbed completely in chaos, in complete rejection of order. You submit to demons (who no doubt exist amply within you) as if theyre worthy of it. They are demons! Parasites! Leeches who cant live unless you say so. You submit to these pathetic things.

Anywho. My tirade is over.

Im surprised youre not outside taking advantage of the Supermoon. Im sure this must be a spiritually auspicious time for ritual/invocation.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

9 of which are executable offences

An eye for an eye as explained by the Oral Tradition, describes metaphorically a proportional punishment. One who causes someone else to lose a hand isnt literally going to be punished by getting his hand chopped off. He will however be punished, whatever that may be (a long prison sentence, and a fine). The only offense garnering capital punishment is murder. All other punishments (theft, adultery) have fines or jail sentences. This isnt Sharia Law. The bibles edicts express dynamics of certain law. The literal interpretation is not always the most essential idea being conveyed.

I will probably have to be away from the Internet for many days, as I have to travel and I have other matters to attend to; thus I will be unable to reply to the many threads I have on different forums. I really find the one-liner type responses to be common and annoying, and since you have put some thought and a great deal of passion into your response, and you seem to be suffering from a common religious delusion, which I was once long ago suffering from myself, I will try to give you a comprehensive response; but thereafter, you will have to accept my apologies for the lack of response for many days, as I will be busy with other matters.

The kind of fascination that a modern educated person has with the alleged Bronze Age laws of a mythical tribe of liberated African slaves is just silly, and is the sign of a partly primitive, regressive, barbaric mind; however as well as being "silly" and a reminder of Monty Python's "Life of Brian," it can also be rather dangerous and lead to the most extreme kinds of religious fanaticism. However, I think that you are "possibly" capable of transcending that. If I try to offend you, it is because I am concerned for others whom you might trap into your way of thinking, and sometimes offending others is a necessary part of awakening.

The 613 Laws are mostly barbaric and stupid religious laws, and many concern what Crowley referred to as "sins of restriction;" which is essentially what Nietzsche referred to as the laws of "slave morality." You exhibit the psychology of the archetypal slave; albeit a highly educated slave of the modern world; so you have my attention and my concern.

The Mosaic Laws represent laws which are considered to be ridiculous by all modern humanists and are only worthy of contempt. The sentencing guidelines in the Old Testament for worshipping competing tribal deities, blasphemy, constructing statues, adultery, failing to observe the Sabbath, disobeying one's parents and unlawful killing are all clearly stated; they are all crimes which demand Capital punishment.

The punishment for theft is more vague, but in some cases execution was also the sentence. Unlawful killing (murder) must be understood in context of the fact that it was required to wage war against the devotees of competing deities, and that breaking many of the Mosaic laws required execution. Adultery in those times was a property offence. In a polygamous culture, a man could have as many wives as he could purchase or take captive in war.

I consider the Monty Python "Life of Brian" film to be a work of satirical genius. If you cannot laugh at it, and also be disgusted by the religious fanaticism of the ancient and modern world, you are not truly human and deserve to be slowly stoned to death with sponges, unless you are truly suffering from religious schizophrenia, in which case you should probably just be confined to a padded cell.

Those who still revere such barbaric laws have no place in the modern world, and should consider emigrating to Afghanistan, Yemen or Saudi Arabia, and even there they will probably complain that the various modern interpretations of Sharia Law are not primitive and barbaric enough for them.

Yes but they live in a world which has many other Jewish prophets, most of whom are atheist priests.

I dont understand this statement. The people of the world are not supposed to submit to the Jews. They ARE however supposed to submit to G-d, and therefore the Jewish conception of reality. G-d gave them this tradition, and they are the messengers.

If by "God" you are referring to a universal Creator, this has nothing to do with Biblical Judaism. Monotheism is a much later import into Jewish thought, as is atheism, which is the modern Jewish faith. The Biblical deity is just one of many Bronze Age deities.

If there is a Creator of the Universe, She clearly does not lend Herself to empirical observation by any other means than Her Creations, and you and I are but two parts of Her Creation, and I am certainly more divine (godlike) than any figment of your imagination or any imaginary friend you may have.

There is simply no point in worshipping some figment of our imagination or some transcendental (up above) being; this is simply a primitive and savage concept. A humanist may worship and revere the gods and goddesses of nature (i.e., human beings), but only the truly religiously schizophrenic worship a projection of ther own imagination; and not content with this, they usually also resort to devising diabolical human hating laws to restrict the nature of their slaves or would-be mind controlled slaves, whom the religious hypnotist can then have power over and feel superior to.

Also, in regards to your thread, you are completely wrong about Masonry. The royal families of Europe are thoroughly Pagan, and it is these people who have maintained the traditions of the ancient pagan writers (for instance, the church of rome which preserves pagan greek, and roman art. Or how bout the 4000 year old Egyptian obelisk from Helipolis standing in St. Peters basillica) to this day. They have HIDDEN themselves beneath christianity, which parades around as the new Israel, but in truth, and this is blatantly obvious to anyone who understands symbolism, Christianity and Islam are remnants of the same Pagan spirit. It is said that the gnostics in Rome intend to merge these two religions after their currently-being-orchestrated Islamist/Christian west confrontation results in a synthesis. A 'world' religion, that combines aspects of these various traditions, insuring the liberal pursuit of spirituality, minus of course orthodox Judaism, Christianity or Islam, which has a legalistic approach to divinity. You and them share the same philosophy, so it is mighty strange of you to target them..

The New Testament is a well known fourth century fabrication and a compilation of numerous other god-legends. It is a completely fraudulent and fabricated religious text created for the purposes of social control

Look at Bohemian grove as an example. The most powerful politicians in America, Europe, Business/Military/Industry magnates, Aristocrsts, all come here and engage in VERY pagan rites. How can you say the Owl of Athena is not a Pagan rite, that you yourself wouldnt celebrate? The Grove is completely and unequivocally pagan.

Bohemian Grove is a private, male only, members only club for extremely wealthy men to act out their homosexual fantasies; possibly because many of them are too well known to show their faces in the gay saunas of California; their pantomime rites may be amusing, and their homosexuality harmless; however I am not amused by any gang of Capitalist elties, as I am ideologically Communist.

This is because secretly, the worlds elite, particularly European elite, have carried the seeds of paganism beneath the christian veneer. Even the Creation of christianity was a very well thought out mediator beetween the end of the Roman Era and the Age of Aquarius. The 2000 year interim was meant to produce the type of people that we have today. A completely ignorant, and dependant population. The antinomianism of Christianity led exactly to Romanticism, and the Secular revolution. It was completely obvious that this world be so.

The secularisation of Europe whch has occurred since the Enlightenment has been a long and hard struggle "against" Christianity and is a dialectical response to the memetic disease of Chrisitianity.

This is the literal story of how society works. Christianity is actually a sham. Built on a political need to curb Jewish growth through proselytism (which was looked at as a big issue. See Apion, Juvenal, Petronius etc). And Masonry is headed by the Duke of Kent for a reason: it was a creation of the aristocracy to facilitate the NWO agenda into the New Aeon - Aquarius. This is all very reasonable speculation.

The Freemasons are essentially a Capitalist Gang like the Yakuza or the Triads; however they do also have elements of an apocalyptic militant Messianic religious cult. They are probably the most financially powerful of all of Capitalism's gangs. Their silly rites and hazings may reinforce their religious hypnosis, but they are, at the end of the day, just another of Capitalism's many gangs, albeit a very genocidal and apocalyptic gang who form a major part of the International Dictatorship of Capitalism and the world's military and economic elites.

The modern Jewish people and the Europeans are totally assimilated.

Being assimilated means nothing. 85% of the Nazi victims of the holocaust were assimilated Jews who never believed that the "civilized" peoples of weimar Germany would ever in a million years commit genocide against them. It was completely irrational to think that. Infact, the bergsons (Peter Bergson, nephew of the Chief Rabbi of Israel, Abraham Isaac Kook) warned many Jews throughout Europe and specifically civilized Germany to get out. He obviously was watching the signs, and may have had some spiritual knowledge (his father, and his uncle were both spiritual giants in Kabbalah) that instructed him to warn others. The vast majority ignored his claims. Zeev Jabonisky also tried to warn Jews. None of these ignorant, assimilated arrogant ignoramuses cared to listen.

Oh for goodness sake; the tiny minority of religious fanatics among the modern day Jewish people are held in contempt and as an object of ridicule by the modern secular, humanistic Jewish people who have completely abandoned the primitive religious fanaticism of Judaism and who mostly have much more in common with Marx, Einstein and Chomsky than with the fanatics. Wake up and get with the modern world.

This is the culture that makes them better than educated religious people? Pfft. It enslaves you to the passions, or 'the gods', if you prefer. Truth is, G-d exists.

Does that possibility not frighten you? You must know that the probability of you being wrong is atleast 50/50. So why take such an obnxiously stupid risk?

I am not a materialist. As far as I am concerned there are other dimensions of reality. However with regards to a personal being who is the universal Creator, and with regards to whether She can read every thought of the seven billion people here, every second of every day, not to mention reading the minds of the souls of potentially trillions of ancestors of our universe's possible 20 billion year existence, not to mention having to calculate the direction which electrons will spin millions of times a second for the trillions upon trillions of electrons in our universe, I consider such an idea preposterous; such a concept seems more like a computer program; and this is of course what the "Holographic Universe" model suggests, that human consciousness is merely part of a rather giant virtual reality simulator.

Youre a Fool. And you like it, and love it, and you want some more of it.

The punishment (or moreso, the Lawful response of Elohim) for sins are said to be horrible, especially with regard to masturbation (Zohar is pretty emphatic about it).

This is what I refer to as human-nature-hating Gnosticism; it is an abominable blasphemy against the gods of nature. Such persons are usually just very arrogant, pompous persons who despise nature, despise themselves, and who consider themselves to be superior to others on the basis of such a hatred. I am far too vain and have far too much love for humankind to have anything to do with such vile thinking.

Mastubration is not a sin against nature; on the contrary it is a sin against nature to refrain from sex. When people do not have lovers, they fantasise about lovers and they masturbate, and when they do have a lovers, they often engage in mutual masturbation and various forms of petting and oral sex with them.

This is perfectly natural for both humans and animals. Your human hating ideas probably stem from a primitive belief in a deity which hates human beings, which hates human nature and which wishes human beings to live in fear of all that is natural. Although this may be an anthropomorphic projection of your own self hatred, I have no doubt that such phantoms do have intelligences who resemble them in other dimensions; you are obvioulsy a lost soul who lives in fear of such human-hating gods and who seeks to spread your mind virus to others, and thus I can show no compassion; your soul may be lost and you may be beyond salvation (possibly not, but I have to make a point), but that is no reason for you to attempt to lead others into Hell with you. You are obviously a modern, educated and intelligent person; you are clearly not beyond salvation; however you need to abandon your fascination with human hating religious ramblings and beliefs and your fear and loathing of your natural erotic nature.

The Zohar, although allegedly a work from the 2nd century ADE in the Aramaic, has been shown to be a 13th century ADE fabrication which uses flawed Aramaic, Portuguese words and even mentions crusades against Muslims (who obviously did not exist in the 2nd century ADE); for this and numerous other reasons (see en.wikipedia.org... ) it can be considered a dubious work.

The Zohar is of course still a very interesting work, just as is the fabricated hoax of the New Testament, and the Zohar reveals a great deal about Jewish mysticism and is a source a numerous modern Kabbalistic ideas. It can be read online on various sites and it is hardly life changing or revolutionary in the 21st century. It is a very primitive work in comparison with the writings of 19th and 20th century Kabbalists such as Crowley, Mathers, Regardie and the vast array of relatively contemporary Kabbalistic writings which can be read on hermetic.com... , www.sacred-texts.com... and numerous other sites.

The belief that because something is more ancient, that it must be more correct, is just part of a primitive mindset. As Richard Dawkins points out, if we were to travel back in time and talk to Aristotle, who was a genius of his age, with our modern scientific understanding and our hindsight on the errors of history, science and philosophy, we would seem like gods to him, and he would seem relatively primitive to us; that is how a modern, rational scientific person thinks, and it is not arrogance; it is totally justifiable.

But for your sins? Which arent even sins. The Hebrew word for sin, Chet, means 'to miss the mark'. Like an accidental error. It something that should be fixed. Your behavior is complete 'to'eivah', abomination. A thoroughly narcissistic need to do exactly that which is counter-intuitive, as a way to fight off the G-d you know inutitively exists.

Maybe youre an amber in the air, waiting to extinguish. This life of yours your last and only, since were approaching the end of the 6000 years of 'work'. Does that not frighten you? Surely, you want to live. You want to exist, and have thoughts and feelings. Does the thought of a different destiny for you, as opposed to me, not bother you? Or is the thought too irrational to entertain? I know you dont care at all, and would never admit to being wrong.

I always try to make a point of admitting to being wrong if shown to be errant by the highest authorities of human reason, human intuition, scientific knowledge and evidential facts.

I do not "believe" in reincarnation, or that I pre-existed my birth; nevertheless, I am the product of millions of years of the evolution of the cosmos and of hundreds of thousands of years of the evolution of human beings, and of the recent Age of Enlightenment and Neopagan revivalism.

I am the apotheosis of human history and so are many of my generation; we are the product of the triumph of collective human will against the savagery and brutality of primitive superstitions and tyrannies of the past. I am devoid of sin (human evil) and will not revere some savage and primitive, human hating definition of a psychopathic deity just because my ancestors did.

I would rather wage eternal war against all the deities of the ancient world than be dragged back into the savagery of the past. It is I who am the judge of the living and the dead, and that is the way it must be. I worship no gods and have no masters. I only respect the gods who respect me and who submit to my will and who assist me in my sacred duty, which is the salvation of humankind.

Truth is, and it is very very obvious, you are wrong. Satanism, is wrong. SRA (Satanic ritual abuse, which im sure you also support, given your approving beastiality, human sacrifice) is Incredibly wrong. Torturing others is wrong.

I often write in a deliberately provocative, satrical and diabolical manner, and I am often guilty of being under the influence of intoxicants, not that this is a sin at all; however the diabolical nature of the world demands a dialectical response. Militant evil demands even greater militancy.

Satanic Ritual Abuse is generally considered to be a bizzarre conspiracy theory, however when one studies the religions of the ancient and modern world, one finds that the three major religious texts (The Bible, the Koran and the Vedas) all have gods who demand the blood sacrifice of humans and animals, and through the ritual sacrifice of Holy War. I find it not unsurprising that there is still blood sacrifice cultism in the world, since our ancestors were obsessed with this, and Frazer's "Golden Bough," and Crowley's "Magic in Theory and Practice" both explain this, though while the former work is a work of great scholarship, the latter is partly satirical and must be read with great care, and with an understanding of Crowley's satirical genius.

All of this is wrong, and you know it, and you must also know it will lead to your eventual destruction, which in anycase is something you probably want. You satanists are TWISTED people, like the roots of the Egyptian tree of Life - the fig tree.

Oh well, according to Jesus who cursed the fig tree, the fig is an abomination. Personally I don't like figs; but I do eat figs to offend Christ and to commit a heretical act. Similarly I occasionally commit the acts of eating unclean fish (crab, lobster, mussels, shrimp, etc.) and I rejoice in my abominable and blasphemous actions; similarly when I shave. I did eat some pork some time ago, and I felt sick afterwards, but I still found pleasure in committing such an abominable sin. I have not had sex with a Christian for ages though; I know it is is a sin to have sex with a Christian, and I enjoyed the last priest I had; but he never called me back, and my Pagan girlfriend found out and she was not pleased.

You are absorbed completely in chaos, in complete rejection of order. You submit to demons (who no doubt exist amply within you) as if theyre worthy of it. They are demons! Parasites! Leeches who cant live unless you say so. You submit to these pathetic things.

I submit to no demons; I only demand that the demons submit to me. You mistake me for one of your submissives. Why don't you ask your Father in Heaven about me. He will testify that I am not a submissive, and that I am his sworn eternal enemy, and that I am totally psychologically dominant and demand his total obedience and eternal submission.

Anywho. My tirade is over.

Im surprised youre not outside taking advantage of the Supermoon. Im sure this must be a spiritually auspicious time for ritual/invocation.

I will go and seek out a few Christian priests to devour, just to satisfy your suggestions.

Lucifer
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.