Kabbalah, Qabalah, Occult/Esoteric Mystery Schools & The Contrast in Various Beliefs of "Enlightenm

I shall not lower or dirty myself in the $hit storm that is about to erupt in this thread. Remember that once before I warned you that you have no idea how loaded your innocent questions on within this subject to its imperfect followers... You shall soon find out. Egos enflamed and out of sync with their necessary balance.

What I find interesting is that you are asking these questions and probing for wisdom about these subjects on a site like ATS. A rather curious action, wouldn't you say? Why go to the devils den to ask about God?

As for Qabalah/Kabbalah....think of it like a tool. Much like an airplane which can be used to take you from one location to another. Only with Qabalah/Kabbalah, you must be the pilot and understand every aspect of how the plane is built and works to successfully fly it to your destination. It is a system that defines the divine aspects of God across every plane - material, mental, spiritual.

If you want to go looking for answers of any purity, you need to look within.

Absolutely true. Good post.

reply to post by CIAGypsy


You, are just pushing your own dogma.

What makes you think your views are in any way better than mine?

Also, where in the non Jewish world does the kabbalah exist? Which ancient text propounds a system as comprehensive, and complete, as the Jewish Kabbalah?

It sure is easy to pretend that "Oh...the Kabbalah is Babylonian in origin", yet have no proof to back that up. Helena Blavataksy makes this assertion in the secret doctrine.

Just because an esoteric philosophy exists, doesnt mean that all are the same. Each people had their own understanding of reality, and they may even have had a doctrine similar to Kabbalah. Is there proof for it? No. Its conjecture.

Kabbalah is amazing. Its amazing enough for me to look at Judaism as something very special. How come I can come to this understanding, and believe myself to be acting very reasonably, yet you justify a myth with no archeological evidence of Kabbalah being a relic of the ancient world, equally known to all. That is untenable, because there is no evidence for that.

On the other hand, you do appreciatee the Kabbalah enough to consider it a quintessential system or 'tool' in ones understandanding of reality, and spiritual development. I know why you feel that way. I feel that way and pay special tribute to the people who are responsible for this wisdom. I therefore consider they very wise. Then combine this with the unfathomable depth of the Hebrew language, the renown of the Hebrewe Bible, influence of the Hebraic Religion, and innordinate influence in the modern world, and you have to admit that there is something extraordinary about the Jewish people.

This doesnt make us less than. It only proves the truth that G-d entrusted the Jews with a religion that was meant to guide all mankind. One people accepted this purpose at Sinai, and one people have endured a painful history yet have managed to overcome, and like a self sustaining organism, regenerate itself.

Im a gentile and i see this relationship similar to that of a president, and his people. The president is considered as equal as anyone else. Nothing makes him fundamentally more important, or his life more valuable than anyone else. He has a great responsibility. THAT is the difference between him and us. That is the difference between the Jew and the Gentile. Any gentile can join the company, and become a Jew. So theres no special 'elitist' status, because any of us can join it, become a scholar and be reckoned as the wisest of the world.

I dont do it because i understand and respect this relartionship. I do not believe a genile is any less loved by G-d than a Jew is. I think G-ds love for each of us is fundamentally beyong qualification. He only knows why I exist. I dont know. I only know that a Jew is a Jew and i am a gentile. To US, it appears that they may be considered 'better' than us, but from G-ds perspective, the top beam in the ladder is as important as the lowest beam. Each one enables it to fullfill its collective purpose.

This is a fact of reality. There are rich, and there are poor. There are the fortunate, and unfortunate, in health, finances, intellectual ability, etc. Every quality has its quantity of expression in this world. So why would human society be any different? And why would i consider someone less gifted intellectually than myself, as inferior to me? He has something I dont have. I may be able to attain a higher level in society, but that means NOTHING spiritually. Spiritually, we are all in the same boat, apart of the same collective Shekinah. Only on the outside, in this world. and in our bodies, and society, do we appear so multifaceted.

Therefore all of us are the same, though some of us have a more correct picture of reality. Some of us experience a closer connection with G-d and that in the bigger picture doesnt suggest anything about G-d love for any of us as being greater than the most lowly.

With all that said, this does not justify the worth of those who are willfully obnoxious and evil and deliberately work to undue, and destroy instead of doing good and being constructive. G-d does not love, and indeed he tells us that in the Torah, which agrees with human reason, those who seek to destroy others, nature, and their ownselves. They have no appreciation for life, and therefore they do not deserve it.

reply to post by CIAGypsy


Where better to find G-d than in the heart of His greatest enemy? In order to know "Good," one must first know "Evil;" and so I come here looking for answers. But you posed a fascinating question nonetheless!

reply to post by dontreally


My friend,

Thank you for your comments, they have actually resonated deeply within me, and I feel as though I should take your words to heart. Firstly, you sound like a Jew to me, my friend, and while Judaism does not advocate conversion, I believe that Hashem would welcome you as a Jew, and that you should take action and follow His Will as soon as you are ready. With regards to one thing you said earlier. You said that all humans have two souls: the animalistic soul (the Nefesh) and the G-dly soul (the Neshamah). This is not wholly correct. It is true that all humans have a Nefesh, or animalistic soul, but /only/ the Jew has the G-dly soul, the Neshamah. But just because you are not a Jew now, does not mean that you cannot have a Neshamah in the future. Rather, the Tanya and the Kabballah says that the gentile who is meant to be a Jew at some point, will have the Neshamah hovering over them at all points in their life, waiting to descend into them, where this does not happen until they accept G-d's Laws and convert to Judaism, and I truly believe that you do have a Neshamah, and that it is hovering over you at this very moment.

I have taken your comments close to heart, as I said previously, and this afternoon/evening, I visited a lodge of the OTO for their Gnostic Mass. I was appalled at what I saw and I found it to be rather distasteful. I respect everyone's right to believe what they will, but this did not resonate with me in the slightest. I know that my place is within Judaism, and I will have to pray hard for G-d to forgive me for this transgression. I left the Mass in the middle of the ceremony, and I did not partake in their "Cakes of Light." For a Jew to eat menstrual blood...this results in Karet, which is to say, being cut off from the Jewish people for all eternity. I feel as thought Hashem entered my subconscious and made me realize that this was not right. I will study the Jewish Kabballah with renewed vigor from here on, and continue to worship Hashem in my own way...without engaging in such overt and organized heresy as this.

Thank you again for your posts, I truly appreciate it!

*waits for the #storm to begin!*

reply to post by Dokuja

It is true that all humans have a Nefesh, or animalistic soul, but /only/ the Jew has the G-dly soul, the Neshamah.

That is not true, and most rabbis dont interpret it that way. There are some Rabbis who still do it, and you apparently think that, but infact the Bible disproves that notion.

When G-d created ADaM, He breathed into Adam "Nishmat" from the root, Neshama. This occurs in Genesis two. Primitive man, ie; pre-adamic man, has a Nefesh. Adam was a unique creation. He had a Neshama.

All human beings have a Neshama and im afraid to say that there is a bit of a xenophobia in that not very authentic belief that only Jews have Neshamas. That is not Judaism, and frankly it is offensive for a Gentile to hear.

I understand Judaism as a gentile BECAUSE i possess the Neshama, the divine level of consciousness capable of understanding this. If i didnt have it, than how can i come to know it? If the doctrine, doesnt meet up with reality, than it is a false doctrine.

Now, the Tanya is a great book, i own it and have studied it many times. However, i do not hold to every little thing it says. All human beings, even the greatest Tzaddikim are capable of error. Not even Moshe was Beyond error, or David, Moshiach.

There are many midieval rabbis who teach differently. The Neshama is the heritage of all intellectual, spiritual beings. A Buddhist has it just as a Jew. However, the question of what amount, and therefore what connection one has with G-d, is different. A Jew, by virtue of his mitzvot, is able to get much further than a gentile can. Though, a mitzvah done without Kavanah (intent) is like a body without a soul; a pointless action. Such a mitzvah is regarded as wingless - without the energy to produce a heavenly reality.

If you dislike Judaism, or aspects of it, its definitely this false notion about a gentile being spiritually inferior to the Jew. The Jew and the Gentile BOTH possess the Neshama. And each develops in its own unique way. The Torah with its mitzvot for Jews simply raises them to a unique awareness, as a nation, that the gentiles and nations are supposed to learn from. They are a symbol to everyone else.

A muslim, is no better than a Jew, or a Christian, or a Buddhist. A Jew is no better than anyone else. It is true though, that they are the 'head' of human civilization. They are a priestly class with a specific purpose. We are the 'body'. A head without a body, has no relevance to this world. A Jewish people, without a Gentile world, is meaningless. We arent all meant to be Jews, even though all of us are capable of knowing G-d to an infinite degree.

was appalled at what I saw and I found it to be rather distasteful. I respect everyone's right to believe what they will, but this did not resonate with me in the slightest. I know that my place is within Judaism, and I will have to pray hard for G-d to forgive me for this transgression. I left the Mass in the middle of the ceremony, and I did not partake in their "Cakes of Light." For a Jew to eat menstrual blood...this results in Karet, which is to say, being cut off from the Jewish people for all eternity. I feel as thought Hashem entered my subconscious and made me realize that this was not right. I will study the Jewish Kabballah with renewed vigor from here on, and continue to worship Hashem in my own way...without engaging in such overt and organized heresy as this.

LOL,. Im sorry. I know exactly what you are talking about. Its just funny. Your reaction is so similar to mine.

Thankyou for your kindness in telling me this. I cannot tell you how much it means to me to have been given this unqiue opportunity to help you. It shows G-d is with all people, Gentile, or Jew. The Jew and Gentile are to be brothers and look out for each. The Jews cannot succeed without Gentile assistance, and the Gentiles will self-destruct without the teachings of the Torah, and guidance of the Jewish sages. Both will work together to fix this broken world.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Dokuja

 

G-d is with all people, Gentile, or Jew. The Jew and Gentile are to be brothers and look out for each. The Jews cannot succeed without Gentile assistance, and the Gentiles will self-destruct without the teachings of the Torah, and guidance of the Jewish sages. Both will work together to fix this broken world.

Amen brother! I agree. I know that there are many interpretations of each text, and I was just repeating what my Rabbi had told me. I apologize if it was offensive, and it was...I see that now, and I did not intend for it to be. Thank you for your help in aiding me to realize the truth. I will still study the esoteric. But I will not be a heretic

reply to post by Dokuja


Now that we have concluded (for the time being) with my own personal journey, let us return to the purpose of this thread, which is, the comparison between the Jewish Kabbalah, the Occult Qabbalah, and the Buddhist ideology of Enlightenment. What are your thoughts on these, how do they relate? How do they differ? and how are they pertinent to the modern day (and of course, such secret societies that are out there)?

reply to post by Dokuja


Well, my post this time is meant for a greater purpose than simply bumping the thread. We never got to the heart of the discussion. Let's discuss the differences and similarities between the Jewish Kabbalah, the Occult Qabbalah, and Buddhism's views on Enlightenment. To me, they are all unique, but close to their heart, they are the same, but once at the heart, they are all uniquely different. What are your thoughts guys? Does anyone have any experience in some in-depth study of any of these? I know a good deal about Buddhism, as I was once a practitioner of that faith, and I know very little about the Jewish Kabbalah and the Occult/Hermetic Qabbalah, so any other views would be great!

reply to post by Dokuja


Hello …And a man of 40 is ready for Binah ~ Avot 5:24... yes yes ! I Know... Some began earlier lol. Please don't comment on "age/experience".. most of us should understand it... if not, well.... age can help!

Hello again Dokuja !

I've been wondering what you have been studying. You mentioned "mysteries" but I couldn't focus what you were meaning. I'm sure YOU know what you meant! lol The posts were concerned with Kaballah for so long, I had to wait it out! lol If I jumped in on Kaballah, We'd be here till another major Earthquake!

Can you name some of the interests you've had and studies... and any diciplines if you've spent "years" on any?

This might help move things on in here.