Japan Nuclear Meltdown Confirmed

Originally posted by ethancoop
reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

 

the design is such that it can't melt down to the bedrock. that's why it's called a containment vessel.

"Containment Vessel" DOES NOT mean; cannot melt through. It only means it "contains" the heat and radiation. 6 feet of steel and graphite or concrete, is there to STOP the Neutrinos and contain a blast from gases -- it CANNOT stop a melt down.

The ONLY thing that keeps the radioactive fuel from melting down is constant cooling, or some insulator that stops or absorbs Neutrinos -- the whole point of Uranium fuel is to concentrate enough matter that has ionizing radiation, that the release of Neutrinos causes MORE release of neutrinos.

You can design something where the fuel, if it gets TOO hot, can burn down into areas that separate the fuel more. BUT, if it's already separating water into Hydrogen and Oxygen (hence the explosions of gas), then that means it has gotten too hot.

>> There are NO MATERIALS that pooled Uranium cannot melt through in time. It all depends on what contingencies they have.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
If you cannot COOL the fuel rods -- then it doesn't matter how sturdy the Containment is. There are designs that drop graphite and distribute the Uranium in case of catastrophic failure of cooling -- but the PROOF of a serious problem is going to be; do they have to continuously "VENT" the containment chamber.

From what I've heard that means they've gotten to a certain temperature -- and THAT only happens when the Uranium has melted into a pool and condensed. If the pressure inside the dome gets too high -- they CANNOT cool it by trying to pump in water.

Fortunately at this stage they have measurements saying that the core is still mostly covered. They are currently doing an investigation of the water injection. If that stops their containment vessel might get tested. Given the pressure is still there at the moment, we know it is ok at this stage. Obviously pressure means the vessel is still sealed.

I still am not ATS savy enough to figure out how to do this and that so please bear with me. This is the Wikipedia page for the levels of the nuclear emergency.. anyways.. was reading and look at what I found
"Level 6: Serious accident
Impact on People and Environment
Significant release of radioactive material likely to require implementation of planned countermeasures.
Example
Kyshtym disaster at Mayak, Soviet Union, 29 September 1957. A failed cooling system at a military nuclear waste reprocessing facility caused a steam explosion that released 70–80 tons of highly radioactive material into the environment. Impact on local population is not fully known.[2]"



Hmmm.. sound familiar ?

reply to post by XtraTL

Obviously pressure means the vessel is still sealed.

Not really..It could be compromised and still show increased pressure..

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst

Originally posted by ethancoop
reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

 

the design is such that it can't melt down to the bedrock. that's why it's called a containment vessel.

"Containment Vessel" DOES NOT mean; cannot melt through. It only means it "contains" the heat and radiation. 6 feet of steel and graphite or concrete, is there to STOP the Neutrinos and contain a blast from gases -- it CANNOT stop a melt down.

It can't stop a meltdown, You are right. Only cooling will prevent that.

However, the containment vessel is designed to contain it. What happens if the steel vessel melts is the molten fuel drops out and distributes over the very thick concrete, spreading it out and cooling it. Then there's one big cleanup bill. Of course you don't just abandon the reactor and let that happen. It's the last line of defense.

Fortunately we are not at that stage yet.

Here's a link to a diagram. Note the fuel is encased in zirconium inside the core. Then you see the big steel vessel in the middle of the building. Outside that is the enormous concrete vessel I'm talking about.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BWR_Mark_I_Containment,_cutaway.jpg

Originally posted by XtraTL

Originally posted by mbkennel
The reactor design and operations were most certainly deficient. (see en.wikipedia.org...)


By the way, in case anyone is still looking in on this thread, there's a very detailed account of what has happened in Fukishima here:

morgsatlarge.wordpress.com...

It's very long and detailed, but from an actual expert.

Sorry, no he is not an expert, he is a shill for the N industry. Read the article, then the comments, the author is torn apart.

edit on 13-3-2011 by PresumedInnocent because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-3-2011 by PresumedInnocent because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by XtraTL

Originally posted by JRCrowley
reply to post by XtraTL

 

600 residents within 20km radius ordered to stay indoors.

edit on 13-3-2011 by JRCrowley because: (no reason given)

"There is a small possibility that a massive amount of radiation has been released."

I'm not sure what this means. It's translated, so it may mean, "we think the likelihood of a massive amount of radiation being released is small".

.

edit on 13-3-2011 by XtraTL because: More detail

edit on 13-3-2011 by XtraTL because: New clarification from Japan News.

Or they are lying through their teeth to keep 5 million people from freaking out.

reply to post by PresumedInnocent


hey man, not being rude here or wanting any grief....but how do you know and how much would you bet that your statement is correct.

Again I am so amazed at the number on Nuclear Scientists on the ATS network

Originally posted by PresumedInnocent

Originally posted by XtraTL

Originally posted by mbkennel
The reactor design and operations were most certainly deficient. (see en.wikipedia.org...)


By the way, in case anyone is still looking in on this thread, there's a very detailed account of what has happened in Fukishima here:

morgsatlarge.wordpress.com...

It's very long and detailed, but from an actual expert.

Sorry, no he is not an expert, he is a shill for the N industry. Read the article, then the comments, the author is torn apart.

edit on 13-3-2011 by PresumedInnocent because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-3-2011 by PresumedInnocent because: (no reason given)

The article was checked by a nuclear engineer. There were some minor errors:

1. moderator rods -> control rods

2. boiled water reactors do not run with all rods out -> for technical reasons due to water level

3. some technical quibble about the wording regarding the zirconium + water -> zirconium oxide + hydrogen reaction

4. Xenon-135 is a decay product product but not produced by neutron activation. You also get tritium in the water used to cool the reactor.

As for the comments of the people below the article. Everyone's got an opinion. People with actual qualifications who understand the facts, much rarer.

Also the later designs of boiled water reactors may be slightly different than the Daiichi plant. The Daiichi reactors may not have the concrete third stage containment. Instead they have extremely thick steel in the second stage containment vessel. However, despite a concerted effort by some experts to find out, so far no word if this is the case for either of the Daiichi reactors that have had an explosion. Nonetheless, they are still designed to contain a worst case disaster (as someone points out, just like the BP blowout preventer :-))

From BBC News Flash:

Japan government confirms radiation leak at fukushima nuclear power plants. Asian countries should take necessary precautions. Remain indoors for the first 24 hours. Close doors and windows. Swab neck skin with betadine where thyroid area is because radiation hits the thyroid first. Radiation may hit neighboring countries starting 4pm (Japan Time).

It is probably as exaggerated as the tsunami warnings which did not even reach one meter, but who knows? This time it might be worse than expected.

poor japanese
the USA figured out how to almost nuke them a second time, but without an American bomb.
and nobody notices. HAARP

reply to post by headb


Would you happen to have a link to that?

Don't know if anyone has already posted this. Here is a link for those who
want to monitor radiation levels in the U.S.

www.radiationnetwork.com...

Yahoo

TOKYO (Reuters) - U.S. warships and planes helping Japan's earthquake and tsunami relief efforts have moved away from the country's Pacific coast temporarily because of low-level radiation from a stricken nuclear power plant, the U.S. Navy said on Monday.

The U.S. Seventh Fleet, in a statement, described the move as precautionary measure.

The Pentagon was expected to announce that the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from stricken nuclear reactors in Japan, causing crew members on deck to receive a month’s worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials said Sunday.

www.nytimes.com...

Sorry if this has been brought up in the thread previously, but if the radiation were to reach Canada/US how far inward would it get. I live in British Columbia, Canada and am just curious if perhaps I should be thinking of packing some stuff together....any help would be great.

Carefull their will shutdown this thread like their did to 8.9 Quake

Actually, they updated it to a 9.

www.marketwatch.com...#!2B3CA1B5-159C-429A-AC74-B3 093D1705DA

Originally posted by mikeybiznaz
reply to post by PresumedInnocent

 

hey man, not being rude here or wanting any grief....but how do you know and how much would you bet that your statement is correct.

Again I am so amazed at the number on Nuclear Scientists on the ATS network

Don't have to be a Nuclear Scientists to know that the story has change hour by hour. If there is a large release of radioactive material I would not bet that it would be announced right away, but in dribbles to keep the population from heading south. Have friends in Tokyo right now, and this is a real fear.