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Japan Nuclear Meltdown Confirmed

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posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 06:23 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 06:23 PM
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I have also noticed the industry apologists and mouth pieces have started their unseemly propaganda campaign to assure us that nuclear power is "safe". Living through this experience has given me a gut experience of helplessness in the face of a dangerous technology. A razor close call doesn't reassure me in the least. In fact quite the opposite I am now more convinced than ever that we should get rid of them all. Shut em down. Personally I don't want any damn nuke plants built any where near me or any one else. We can't get rid of the nuclear waste and they are dangerous.

In fact it is still not over as huge aftershocks are expected to already damaged infrastructure. None of us know for certain what happened to those plants. Hopefully the truth will come out.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by XtraTL

Originally posted by mbkennel
At Chernobyl there was a nuclear criticality accident (known as detonation, but not contained like a weapon) which caused the damage and subsequent the steam explosion. This was personally confirmed to me by a Ukranian physicist visiting the institute where I used to work; they measured the various isotope concentrations. By working back from the short term ones they recognized a spike (corresponding to a rapid point surge of fission) which must have occurred at the initial moment of the accident. Subsequently a graphite core caught on fire, and there was no reinforced containment building. It was worst-case of worst cases upon idiotic blunders. (and the planet still survived).


I can certainly believe all that. Thanks for the extra information.

An interesting thing that came out of the Chernobyl thing was a revelation of how persistently idiotic the media was. They repeated ad nauseum that there was no containment vessel at Chernobyl at all and that a similar nuclear accident could never happen in the US because they all had containment vessels.

This was of course an utter fabrication for the sake of sensationalisation and/or to paint the Russians as being inferior to the Americans. Of course nearly everyone believed this report at the time because almost no one questioned the media.


www.springerlink.com...

The reactor design and operations were most certainly deficient. (see en.wikipedia.org...)

The containment wasn't reinforced to the level that other reactor designs are, and the RBMK reactor did have many design flaws which reduced safety compared the PWRs and BWRs typically used in the West. The RBMK reactor was a modification of a graphite reactor which was suitable for the production of plutonium for nuclear weapons, not a from scratch design for civilian power with an emphasis on safety.

The design problems weren't the end of it. In what must be a mass Darwin Award nomination, the operators, to conduct certain 'experiments' they intentionally disabled---as in welded shut---various pumps and safety systems before the accident. (en.wikipedia.org...)

Let's not whitewash the true screwups of the USSR and assume that they apply equally to other, much safer, reactors.

I also heard from the Ukrainian that the Soviets had not placed any (or very many) RBMK reactors inside Russia itself, but only on the outer states. Nice guys, huh?

edit on 13-3-2011 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by mbkennel
The reactor design and operations were most certainly deficient. (see en.wikipedia.org...)

The containment wasn't reinforced to the level that other reactor designs are, and the RBMK reactor did have many design flaws which reduced safety compared the PWRs and BWRs typically used in the West. The RBMK reactor was a modification of a graphite reactor which was suitable for the production of plutonium for nuclear weapons, not a from scratch design for civilian power with an emphasis on safety.

The design problems weren't the end of it. In what must be a mass Darwin Award nomination, the operators, to conduct certain 'experiments' they intentionally disabled---as in welded shut---various pumps and safety systems before the accident. (en.wikipedia.org...)

Let's not whitewash the true screwups of the USSR and assume that they apply equally to other, much safer, reactors.

I also heard from the Ukrainian that the Soviets had not placed any (or very many) RBMK reactors inside Russia itself, but only on the outer states. Nice guys, huh?

edit on 13-3-2011 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)


Yeah, no dispute from me on any of that. That was certainly one very deficient reactor being run by idiots running dangerous experiments employed by a government who couldn't care less.

You're right, I shouldn't whitewash the true screwups of the USSR. I guess my main point was to trash the Western media who repeated statements about the reactor having no containment at all for days, even though this was manifestly not true. It certainly was deficient though.

By the way, in case anyone is still looking in on this thread, there's a very detailed account of what has happened in Fukishima here:

morgsatlarge.wordpress.com...

It's very long and detailed, but from an actual expert.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by Fenrin


Reactor 3 of Fukushima I which is also at risk even contains plutonium which is more dangerous than uranium.


Let clear up- something ALL reactors contain plutonium.

Its a by product of the nuclear reaction as the fuel is used.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 08:02 PM
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I can see the headline already:

Fallout Spreads Across Globe, Mutants Run Rampant - California and Japan Virtually Unchanged



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 08:33 PM
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posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by ANNED

Originally posted by Fenrin


Reactor 3 of Fukushima I which is also at risk even contains plutonium which is more dangerous than uranium.


Let clear up- something ALL reactors contain plutonium.

Its a by product of the nuclear reaction as the fuel is used.


This was one is fueled by mixed U/Pu fissile material, that's what they meant to say.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 08:47 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by XtraTL

Originally posted by artistpoet
It has the potential to be 1000 greater than the Chernbyl disaster.


Absolute rubbish!

Chernobyl's reactor *core* exploded. The Chernobyl reactor also contained large quantities of graphite which caught fire spewing radioactive material into the atmosphere. The containment vessel was also constructed badly, allowing the concrete cover of the containment to blow off.

Also the reactors in Japan were successfully shut down shortly after the quake.

How many times do we have to keep repeating it. A disaster on the scale of Chernobyl is NOT possible with this kind of reactor in this situation.

It works like this. The core of these reactors needs to be covered in water at all times. We know that this wasn't happening (and may still not be happening) due to the power problems at the plant from the earthquake and tsunami.

The extreme heat in the reactor due to the lack of cooling causes the uranium/plutonium core to melt. This is called a meltdown. The fuel (which is metalic) literally melts. The release of hydrogen, cesium and iodine confirms that a partial meltdown has occurred. Of course more water has been pumped into the core and there is a continuous battle to keep the core cool so that the situation doesn't become worse.

The nuclear fuel rods are clad in zirconium (a kind of metal sheath). At very high temperature, zirconium reacts with water and causes the zirconium to oxidize (the oxygen from the water attaches to the zirconium metal) releasing hydrogen gas from the water (recall water is H20, i.e. hydrogen and oxygen).

Due to the buildup of hydrogen gas, the reactor containment vessel had to be vented. Dangerous quantities of hydrogen built up which then exploded, blowing the top off the reactor building, but did not blow up the primary containment vessel, which is where the nuclear reactor core is.

Since that time sea water has been pumped into the reactor containment vessel in a desperate bid to keep the core cool.

Even though the reactor is shut down (the control rods were fully inserted into the nuclear pile to stop the nuclear reaction that normally occurs when the plant is generating electricity) the previously decayed uranium (which is not uranium any more but other things that uranium has decayed into, such as cesium, iodine and others) is still radioactive. It takes days or even weeks for these decay products to finish their decay into stabler less radioactive isotopes. Whilst this process continues heat is still generated by the core.

The fear is that if the reactor cannot be sufficiently cooled for long enough that the core will melt entirely and eventually melt through the containment vessel itself, resulting in a massive release of radioactive material into the surrounding environment. However, an explosion of the kind that occurred at Chernobyl is NOT possible.

No radioactive clouds over the US. No massive worldwide extinction level event.

How many threads are we gonna have on ATS about something which is NOT possible. It's like claiming you found a 15kg steel ball in your cereal packet. It just can't happen.


Rods have been exposed -- 1000 times more radio active posion has been pumped into the jet stream over Japan in one hour equuivalent to a years worth in normal circumstance - it is headed toward Western USA and Canada and though it is not an outright killer it is a grave threat to health - Do not expect main sream media and govermnments to tell you truth. Yes they are pumping sea water onto the melting core but this is proving futile and there are other reactors due to blow - Yes the first one DID explode - say what you will for what ever reason you have but you do your fellow Human Beings a diservice by parroting with those that down play such things.
edit on 13-3-2011 by artistpoet because: typos



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by artistpoet
Do not expect main sream media and govermnments to tell you truth. Yes they are pumping sea water onto the melting core but this is proving futile and there are other reactors due to blow - Yes the first one DID explode - say what you will for what ever reason you have but you do your fellow Human Beings a diservice by parroting with those that down play such things.
I don't expect mainstream media to tell the truth but I have even less expectation that you will tell the truth, simply because you don't know what's true.

Did anyone see Bill Nye (the science guy) on CNN earlier today?

He was 180 degrees from the guy on before him who was downplaying the incident, but Bill Nye said it was serious, citing the pumping of seawater into the reactor an indication of just how serious it is. I got the impression that CNN didn't appreciate Bill Nye being so candid about how serious it is.

No doubt things are bad inside the primary containment structure, but if it holds like the one in three mile island did, then what we have on our hands is another three mile island. It's a serious disaster for sure, but if primary containment holds, public exposure to radiation will be limited.

At this point it's premature to say if the primary containment structure will continue to hold.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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Sounds of an explosion just reported in the Number 3 reactor...

jibtv.com...



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by JRCrowley
 


And white smoke rising out of the Number 1 reactor. Jeez, what a mess.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by JRCrowley
Sounds of an explosion just reported in the Number 3 reactor...

jibtv.com...


Reports of white smoke due to a small hydrogen explosion at number 3 reactor at Fukushima Dai-ichi (Number-One) power plant.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by XtraTL

Originally posted by JRCrowley
Sounds of an explosion just reported in the Number 3 reactor...

jibtv.com...


Reports of white smoke due to a small hydrogen explosion at number 3 reactor at Fukushima Dai-ichi (Number-One) power plant.


Yes, that's correct. They don't have details yet but this happened at 11:08am Japan time, so it's just around 20 minutes ago.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by JRCrowley
 


Current report says: Likely hydrogen and oxygen combined and exploded, blowing a wall out.

The live video shows a similar looking result to reactor 1. The top of the building is a wireframe.

edit on 13-3-2011 by XtraTL because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-3-2011 by XtraTL because: Details as they come in.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by XtraTL
 


600 residents within 20km radius ordered to stay indoors.
edit on 13-3-2011 by JRCrowley because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:41 PM
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Yeah but it's only a small explosion at a nuclear power plant.( give me a break ) they have been downplaying this all day saying it's ok we are pumping it with sea water so don't worry everthing is fine



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by JRCrowley
reply to post by XtraTL
 


600 residents within 20km radius ordered to stay indoors.
edit on 13-3-2011 by JRCrowley because: (no reason given)


"There is a small possibility that a massive amount of radiation has been released."

I'm not sure what this means. It's translated, so it may mean, "we think the likelihood of a massive amount of radiation being released is small".

However there is an increase in radiation measured.

The container vessel is reported safe by the head of the installation and water pumping is continuing.

Yeah, they are now wording it, "there is little possibility that radioactive material has been released into the air".
edit on 13-3-2011 by XtraTL because: More detail

edit on 13-3-2011 by XtraTL because: New clarification from Japan News.



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