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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 73.htm
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posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by cosmicpixie

Yes, there are two dangers concerning a core breach:
  • If the pressure becomes too great for the reactor vessel, it could simply blow apart, or more likely crack leading to a partial breach. A crack would also relieve the pressure, however, meaning that it would be extremely difficult to keep water over the fuel rods. Depending on how large a crack developed, radiation in some amount will be released to the atmosphere.

    This is why they are venting the reactors, releasing radiation in the process and leading to the two hydrogen explosions. Some is preferable to all.

  • The temperatures can lead to a melting of the reactor vessel itself, opening the entire fuel supply to the atmosphere. That would irradiate the entire area similar to fallout from an atomic bomb (without the initial nuclear explosion, which cannot occur in a power plant).

In actuality, both would happen if either happened, A pressure crack that removes all pressure will lead to a complete meltdown; a meltdown of the vessel will cause it to fracture as it softens under the heat.

TheRedneck




posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by cosmicpixie
 


Isn't the fact that it's designed to withstand a TOTAL meltdown a little concerning, considering how desperately they are scrambling to cool it down with seawater? If everything is still intact, why not just stand back and let it burn? If it's gonna all be contained regardless......why keep risking people's lives to cool it down?



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


Actually, that's incorrect. The Richter scale magnitudes are logarithmic, not linear, so the difference would probably be about 100 megatons of TNT.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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In this model, built in 1970, the containment is not that good.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 


I'm not too sure really. My brain is fried after watching and reading so much news. From some of the posts by Redneck and reading around I understand that they have to try and relieve pressure else it would all just blow up in some massive explosion ? As in the buidling , the container vessel, everything. So nothing would be left to contain the meltdown as it would all be blown to smithereens under intense pressure ? I don't know, this is a brand new subject to me and I was always crap at physics



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Konah
reply to post by pepsi78
 


Actually, that's incorrect. The Richter scale magnitudes are logarithmic, not linear, so the difference would probably be about 100 megatons of TNT.


I was going to post that as well, but I realized the subject had already created a tangent and wanted to keep the thread on track.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Many thanks for your informative posts Redneck. That reply to me was very sobering reading. It's all very worrisome and I'm constanly watching and reading the news now.
There must be a leak in reactor 2 I gather as twice today the fuel rods have been exposed, despite them pumping in water ? Why else would the water level drop...the intense heat ? Why can't they pump it in faster then to compensate ?



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00

That report is not entirely accurate...

Steel melts at about 1500°C. Calcium carbonate, the principle component of concrete, melts at about 1600°C. Uranium melts at 3000°C, and the molten fuel can become much hotter than that.

If enough fuel is reacting uncontrolled, nothing can contain it without melting itself.

The base is designed to resist melting, by making it massive enough and shaped properly to help dissipate the heat, but that is not a guarantee of anything, nor has it ever been tested in a laboratory, much less a real-life meltdown. It simply can't be, because a failed test would be in itself a massive disaster.

The plant I worked at had a reactor rated to produce 500,000,000 Watts of electricity continuously. that is after the heat losses created by the multiple heat exchangers and considering the fact that that rating was under controlled conditions. That is a LOT of heat!

Not to mention, a full meltdown will melt the reactor vessel, meaning widespread acute radiation poisoning and many generations of radiation damage.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by AstraCat
RSOE EDIS posted a few information updates. Like a nice overview of the latest events -


Situation Update No. 26
On 14.03.2011 at 17:32 GMT+2

Goto, who earned his PhD by evaluating the stress that reactor container vessel can endure, quit his job with Toshiba Corporation due to his concerns over reactor safety. "I came to the conclusion that the vessels being built were not adequate enough to be the last line of defense," he says. "They weren't designed to withstand the kinds of problems currently being experienced in the Fukushima plants."

hisz.rsoe.hu...
edit on 14-3-2011 by AstraCat because: added a link


I find his assessment a wee bit blood-chilling. It may be, that as bad as the nuclear emergency is, that Japan has been dodging some pretty big bullets. How long can that keep going without a major containment break?
edit on 14-3-2011 by mydarkpassenger because: Dropped a word out..



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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Forgive me if someone's already posted this, but I think it answers a lot of questions from the last few pages:


...

At 1:30pm EST on March 12, American nuclear experts gathered for a call-in media briefing. While various participants discussed the policy ramifications of the crisis, physicist Ken Bergeron provided most of the information regarding the actual damage to the reactor.

"Reactor analysts like to categorize potential reactor accidents into groups," said Bergeron, who did research on nuclear reactor accident simulation at Sandia National Laboratory in New Mexico. "And the type of accident that is occurring in Japan is known as a station blackout. It means loss of offsite AC power—power lines are down—and then a subsequent failure of emergency power on site—the diesel generators. It is considered to be extremely unlikely, but the station blackout has been one of the great concerns for decades.

Bergeron explained the basics of overheating at a nuclear fission plant. "The fuel rods are long uranium rods clad in a [zirconium alloy casing]. They're held in a cylindrical-shaped array. And the water covers all of that. If the water descends below the level of the fuel, then the temperature starts going up and the cladding bursts, releasing a lot of fission products. And eventually the core just starts slumping and melting. Quite a bit of this happened in TMI [Three Mile Island], but the pressure vessel did not fail."



www.scientificamerican.com...

That's about as clear an explanation of what's happened and what will happen as any I've seen.

You know, it occurs to me that the Webbot was wrong.....about the timing.

This is indeed a "global coastal event" as was predicted by it. The radioactive leakage, if containment is breached, could indeed circle the world many times before it is gone. The Webbot predicted a "summer of hell" following the "global coastal event", and it sure seems to me to be a strong possibility of occurring, given the Mideast turmoil, Northeast floods, the wild winter storms, the politics and economy...

Glad I expanded my gardens, as I've been advising others to do for some months now.

I hope it's merely coincidence, but it doesn't hurt to stay extra alert for the next few months: knowing which way and when to jump usually saves those paying attention.
edit on 14-3-2011 by apacheman because: sp

edit on Mon Mar 14 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: quote too long IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by cosmicpixie

Two possible reasons: either they are having to vent the gases to keep the pressure to safe levels, meaning there is essentially a controlled leak, or there is a small crack that is slowly relieving pressure. That is worrisome, but they are working hard to keep this monster under control.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Je.sus.

So what you're saying is that it's actually worse----we're pumping the public with stories about how well these vessels are built and how they can withstand all of this, but in actuality no one knows or can know if they're good enough, so we're scrambling because the situation is bad, regardless of how "well" they are built. They could be built to the highest standards, and we still don't know if that's good enough.

So everyone who is posting the "why I'm totally chillaxing about this meltdown and having a mojito" is posting something based on guesses and hopes. Any freaking thing could happen, and the fact that it's super hot and not safe to be near the reactors right now means we probably have no clue----besides the gauges, which could be wrong-----WTF is going on.

Man.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00

Yes, I am afraid that is pretty much accurate.


TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 


Yeah, and that Goto guy's spelling it out really plain. He investigated the necessary tolerances and plainly states the containment vessels are NOT adequate for what's been happening. He quit his job over it. Maybe it's a miracle that it hasn't gotten even worse yet.


edit on 14-3-2011 by mydarkpassenger because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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BBC News have been implying that this is going to be a "full blown nuclear crisis".
They've interviewed a few people, one of whom pointed out (the fact?) that MOX isn't detected on geiger counters.

Incidentally, I loathe the BBC and all it now stands for but to their credit, BBC News has been genuinely ascertaining the facts the best they can and are being very impartial about the situation in this instance.

The whole "everything's fine" slant reminds me strongly of Chernobl, in how the information came out and how every danger was automatically played down.
It's just common protocol used by all successful governing bodies, seen as a necessary form of civil (panic) control. Knowledge is power, after all.
The third reactor is expected to blow up too, according to the experts on the news.

Personally, after the massive earthquake (BBC stating 9.1) and another just as bad expected to come any day; after seeing the enormous power that tsunami had, wiping away cities like they were weren't even there and considering the nuclear plants were all coastal, I'd be extremely surprised if this doesn't get very worse, very soon.

Good luck wishes to all, I suppose.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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From what I read between the lines, some of the pumps have burned out, most likely due to contamibation introduced by the tsunami, grit they couldn't clean out. I heard a report on NTN about them trying to get new pumps there in time.

Personally, I think that despite all the heroics...and make no mistake, Japanese engineers and techs are making enormous personal sacrifices right now...despite the true skill and bravery with which they are battling, it is a losing battle.

There simply are too many factors working against them in too many places, and they will lose at least one.

Then we'll be in unknown territory, certainly disastrous for them, and extremely difficult to predict the eventual global consequences. Only thing for sure is that globally any effects won't show up immediately, but will reveal themselves in higher cancer rates over the years. No one will drop dead, now or six months from now, except those directly working on it.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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hello people , what is the latest ?



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


You might be correct about the losing battle, but we have to remember, the reactions have stopped. This is latent heat they are battling, so every day they battle takes us further from the risk. If they keep fighting, they might just rig it and rig it long enough that much of the latent heat has dissipated and better equipment gets put into place, and they just might win the thing!



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by mydarkpassenger
 


Wow. Holy crap.

That's some pretty damning evidence right there. Dude who helped build them stopped taking a paycheck because they were so inadequate.

Out to buy duct tape, LOL......



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


And you know this how?

Fact is, they have reported that the control rods did not go into place properly on multiple reactors. YES, the reaction is still happening. If it weren't, the heat would be under control by now.

ETA: Redneck posted about this pages and pages ago, so I can't find the source now. Perhaps he will remember.
edit on 14-3-2011 by 00nunya00 because: (no reason given)




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