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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 


I was just talking about the fact we had not heard anymore on the polymer they were going to spray the grounds with, after reading your post it I really hope they continued the spraying. The other thought I had was I hope they did not push the spent fuel rods remains into the bay when they bulldozed around the plant after the explosions, if they did that might be a partial reason for the high contamination of the seawater tested.




posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 


One would only need a shaft with small diameter, perhaps 2 cm or so and a slightly ascending angle, because the super-heated corium will run like water. But all these parameters can safely be chosen in advance, calculated. And the room from where the shaft begins can be 300 feet away, so there is enough rock to shield from heavy radiation. And the process of filling the corium into small containers could be automatized, so no one is at risk.

You would need the thermal capacity of the shaft walls, the cooling as the corium runs through the shaft could be calculated that it is running slow enough to process. And if a shaft gets blocked from getting too cold you can easily drill another.

And of course there can be multiple shafts draining all the corium "puddles" from all reactors.
The strategy is to kill the "dragon" with many small blood drains.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Tworide
So far these swarms are not close to any particular volcano,


really? What about this one?



Mt Fuji
35° 21′ 28.8″ N, 138° 43′ 51.6″ E

Japan's Shinmoedake volcano spews ash and rock two days after quake


The Shinmoedake volcano in Japan's Kyushu has erupted two days after the massive earthquake and tsunami that left more than 10,000 people dead, reports said on Sunday. There was no confirmation on whether the eruption was related to Friday's quake. The volcano, which was dormant for several weeks after erupting on January 19, began spewing ash and rock on Sunday, Japan's meteorological agency said.


www.ibtimes.com...



"One" quake at the base of Fuji doesn't make a swarm, or one volcano that's on a different tectonic plate junction burping since Jan 19 make it a direct relationship to the 9.0 quake of 3/11..
Japan rests on a complex system of four separate tectonic plates. Japan is a VERY active seismic area.
thewatchers.adorraeli.com...
The swarms of quakes on the 3/15 map are mostly under sea at a depth greater than 10 miles, West of Honshu.
What to watch for now is swarms of small quakes at a shallow depth occurring inland on Honshu in the proximity of existing volcanoes, that's where the possible danger may lay.
This doesn't mean that one of many other volcanoes won't randomly pop on one of the other islands though...



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


not too late to drown the corium into sand. Make a big enough cave under the corium, drill a hole to drain it and run away and seal the entrance.

The idea is to get at the corium from the downside. From there you can use the force of gravity to move the corium and its fluidity to do exactly what you want it to do. Regardless if you drown it in a big sand pit or try to cut it neatly again into small corium pills to be reprocessed.

You cannot get at it from above. first there is the massive radiation and second, because the high specific weight will cause any other substance dropped onto it from above to float on the surface just like it would do on fluid quicksilver.

But from below you have every advantage to prepare the situation as a bell manufacturer has before spilling the molten metal into form. Just think of the corium as a big self-heating furnace full of molten metal and apply the appropriate method to mould it into that what you want.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by AlaskanDad
I was just talking about the fact we had not heard anymore on the polymer they were going to spray the grounds with, after reading your post it I really hope they continued the spraying.


We always hear about their latest plan, but rarely the PROGRESS of that plan

Like this today...


Removal of radioactive water begins

The operator of the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has begun work to remove highly radioactive water after a one-day delay due to a series of earthquakes since Monday.

Tokyo Electric Power Company started transferring radiation-contaminated wastewater from a tunnel outside the Number 2 reactor to a turbine condenser on Tuesday evening.

The radioactive water had been hampering work to restore cooling functions in the damaged reactors.

Earlier in the day, a quake with an intensity of six-minus on the Japanese scale of zero to 7 hit the plant.

The external power supply to the plant remained intact, and injection of water to cool the Numbers 1, 2 and 3 reactors continued.

Injection of nitrogen gas into the Number 1 reactor containment vessel to prevent a hydrogen blast has been continuing without any interruptions.

But the pressure level inside the container has remained flat over the past few days, suggesting that certain gases may be leaking out of the vessel. The power company says there has been no significant change in radiation levels around the plant.

On Tuesday morning, a fire broke out in a seawater sampling facility, but was put out about 7 minutes later.

The plant operator believes a battery short-circuited.

Tuesday, April 12, 2011 21:39 +0900 (JST)


www3.nhk.or.jp...

1) So after 30+ days they have finally started removing the water that has been stopping them from restoring cooling to the reactors...

BUT

They are only removing it from the outside tunnel not the buildings they need access to

2) They are still injecting water into three reactors...

BUT

they don't tell us where all THAT water is going...

3) They are injecting nitrogen into reactor #1

BUT

There is no buildup in pressure so it is obvious that it has no containment and is leaking radioactive gases

...on and on goes the Merry-Go-Round



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by maria81
Make a big enough cave under the corium, drill a hole to drain it and run away and seal the entrance.


...problem is that the plant is almost at sea level and most likely the rock under the plant is fractured. I wonder if it would be possible to dig that out deep enough beneath the corium. Don't have accurate data on the geology beneath the plant other than it is sandstone



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by maria81
reply to post by zorgon
 


not too late to drown the corium into sand. Make a big enough cave under the corium, drill a hole to drain it and run away and seal the entrance.

The idea is to get at the corium from the downside. From there you can use the force of gravity to move the corium and its fluidity to do exactly what you want it to do. Regardless if you drown it in a big sand pit or try to cut it neatly again into small corium pills to be reprocessed.

You cannot get at it from above. first there is the massive radiation and second, because the high specific weight will cause any other substance dropped onto it from above to float on the surface just like it would do on fluid quicksilver.

But from below you have every advantage to prepare the situation as a bell manufacturer has before spilling the molten metal into form. Just think of the corium as a big self-heating furnace full of molten metal and apply the appropriate method to mould it into that what you want.



Sandstone melts at 1300°C. Rock under Fukushima, sandstone.
Corium temperature can be up to 2400°C - 2800°C.

How do you plan to get below it if it is in bedrock. If you could do that, and channel it somehow (provided your drill didn't melt and your drill motor frizz out from the rads), how are you going to "mould" it, with what, and where would you try to put it? What are you going to use to "cut" it? Preprocessed? Geez. I didn't know we had the technology to do that. Trying to reprocess a mini-sun would be a novel idea

edit on 12-4-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 


Where to put it is the easiest piece. In small enough amounts, you drill it down into a subduction zone and leave it there encased.

You'd leave the drillbit and drill string it is in as a "fish" in the hole, with its radiation load inside.

That technology already exists, it just isn't being used that way.


How to get at it in the first place - well that's a different story.

The ground itself should provide some protection from the rads . The drill bit is being powered from the christmas tree with hydraulics - not at the point of the drill bit.

If you knew where the corium was, then you could potentially use a coring drill to drill under the spot.

So what if it burns out? You need access, not working capability.

I keep seeing this argument about use of electronics and robots. Oh, the robot would fry. So what? As long as the task is short, let it!

You don't want to retrieve much of the substance at a time. If you have the access point open, then you can thread in smaller bits into what you previously drilled. If you can get it to drill a TINY amount of the corium at a time, and catch it in a core catcher, you might even be able to use hydralics to release a resin to encase it. Then pull it back through your shallow borehole casing.

Encase it, move it off site, to another site where you've set up the possibility of drilling the retrieved material down deep into a subduction zone. A petroleum DRY subduction zone. I'm sure there've been a few of those drilled in the world. I bet someone could look for them in a public database. Already all logged, and known to be dry in known geology.

An entire drill string of core catchers. Ground is falling in? Drill ground, plug, drill plug, drill ground, plug, drill plug, drill ground, plug.

Then do it again. And again.

Be the minute man. It doesn't need to last long to get the job done.

edit on 2011/4/12 by Aeons because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by Wertwog
 


Where to put it is the easiest piece. In small enough amounts, you drill it down into a subduction zone and leave it there encased.

Encase it, move it off site, to another site where you've set up the possibility of drilling the retrieved material down deep into a subduction zone. A petroleum DRY subduction zone. I'm sure there've been a few of those drilled in the world. I bet someone could look for them in a public database. Already all logged, and known to be dry in known geology.


Good idea, until nature decides to not cooperate and spits it all back out, with either a steam ejection, volcanic ash eruption, or some other natural event, that would not have happened if the drill had not been there.

About as good an idea as rocketing this stuff into space... until something goes wrong with the rocket and fails to make orbit and the payload returns to earth at thousands of miles per hour.

Maybe we should do like the Russians have done in the past with their nuclear waste, just dump it all in the deep ocean?

There are no simple, easy answers that do not come with some risks.




posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


ok let say you could drill under it...how would you get to to flow into your drilled hole?
how would you keep it from going down once it started flowing into your hole??
if you could get it started wouldn't it burn thru your "pipe" before it reached the exit?

how would you prevent getting all the substance at one time if the above was to work?

what would you encase it in?
edit on 12-4-2011 by okiecowboy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Aeons


So if the corium keeps melting down, is in not effectively drilling itself down into a subduction zone that has no petrol?



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 06:03 PM
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The risk alredy is there. Exactly what do you think is going to happen in a dry subducting hole?

Can something happen? I'm sure. Doing nothing isn't exactly the best option. It is essentially the option being used. It is like that TV show "Hoarders" with radiation. I could clean up my house, but it might fall on me if I did, so I'll do nothing until it falls on me anyways.

Waiting until it falls on me though - that's cheaper to me personally. Not for the poor SOB who has to clean up my hoard, and my stinking corpse too.
edit on 2011/4/12 by Aeons because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


No. Because it isn't deep enough, and it is being inundated with water which is then being pushed out into the ocean and the water table.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 06:09 PM
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Name the poolium falls game

"OOOZLIUM, this is fun or. goblium..."


"a [[snip]] or apocalyptium or maybe farewellium or harmlessium or how about tepconium "

[inappropriate content removed]


[inappropriate content removed]


"How about TEPcrapium? "


"I'd call it 'Too-late-ium'. "

"Poolium falls... Falls and poolium... How about... Foolium? "


"Fourium would be more descriptive."

[inappropriate content removed]


We could also use "FUBARIUM"..



unseful and good for a laugh ( and mike I couldn't agree with you more ) , don't let me stop any of the good ideas , though one does occur to me ...something with kind of a doomed middle earth flavor ( you know an: ..as the age of man called to a close ....) perhaps 'The Fallows NIT' , fallows for obvious reasons and NIT for : NO IMMEDIATE THREAT

and
Wertwog yep that's exactly what I am talking about.
Also in the skewed report that claim that #3 was out of water for 7 hours the same as #2 but that #1 was without water for 27 hours, so why did one not blow the roof off anywhere near as bad as #3? the Mox in three must have been a significant contributor to 3 violently blowing where as #2 just kind of farted in the same time frame

That leads to Areva clearly being wrong on the state of containment and amount of waste pool material left in that reactor #3 building ( which adds to the amount of aerosol production and discharge )
Areva also states that #3 was "mostly noble gases" being released so " no fall-out" for soil contamination outside the plant... apparently the company believes the waste pool At#4 completely aerosolized , where the massive explosion at #3 somehow managed to produce little to no aerosol , kind of convenient for the makers of mox that , even though the building is melting and had a dust shower 600M in the air none of that stuff is anything other than "noble gases" , I guess the uranium and plutonium MOX content just stayed home with the little piggy, ha..they sure as hell forgot in their little corporate cheat sheet to mention plutonium uptake and transport at the least.

Then again it's probably why Seimens pullled (brutually ) out of Areva/MOX to the tune of 1.62 billion Euos
edit on Tue Apr 12 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: [inappropriate content removed]



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by okiecowboy
reply to post by Aeons
 


ok let say you could drill under it...how would you get to to flow into your drilled hole?
how would you keep it from going down once it started flowing into your hole??
if you could get it started wouldn't it burn thru your "pipe" before it reached the exit?

how would you prevent getting all the substance at one time if the above was to work?

what would you encase it in?
edit on 12-4-2011 by okiecowboy because: (no reason given)


I don't think it needs to "flow" into the hole.

I bet you could drill a TINY amount, and then trip out/pull the catcher with the drill string attached out.

The original drill gets you there. The secondary is threading up and drilling a tiny amount and pull back. Often.

You don't need to survive 2000 degrees forever. For minutes. Maybe seconds.

Tiny amounts of the radiating steel being brought down and through at a time.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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I think Tungsten might hold up against the temperature of corium.

There are other materials.
The ceramic tiles on the space shuttle withstand more than the 2800 degrees corium gets.


edit on 4/12/11 by makeitso because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 06:14 PM
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Robot to remove corium / poolium, quit thinking r2d2 and think Putzmiester with a 272 ft boom with a liquid cooled spatula taking a very small scoop and placing it into a cask of boron another Putzmiester puts lid on cask and moves it to a safer area where a fork lift takes the casks to storage.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 06:14 PM
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I have to ask why did they change the level from 5 to 7? Earlier, we thought that China Syndrome did not matter? The corium from reactor 3 has been in the water table for a long time, but we thought that it just stopped at the water table/bedrock. Is it possible that the corium from reactor 3 and 1 are actually causing earthquakes and other problems now thats why they changed from lvl 5 to 7? I think something happened in the last few days since the 7.4 earthquake with the ball of light explosion, and they have no idea what to do. China Syndrome might be a bigger problem than we thought?



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


I had thought of two scenarios like this several days agoa but was afraid to put ideas in TEpcos head , I just see bungling on the road map...anyway if the cat is out of the bag one way is with an earth boring machine ( hate to see the hazard pay on that )




But a much better method would be to use an under the street trencher :



to under mine a series of successively deeper holes under teh cores hot areas and then push squibs down the "stack" of holes to get a fast down and dirty tunnel
edit on 12-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 06:16 PM
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The best part of declaring this a level 7 is that they've already told the world it is as bad as it can get, so there is no longer any need in providing information, news and data on how things are going... It can only get better... It can't get any worse.. there is nothing worse than a level 7.

Now, move along... we are done here.



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