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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 682.htm
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posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:27 PM

Originally posted by zorgon

AARGGGGGGGGG Bring back the Samurai

this is part of the problem loyalty to your master even at the expense of your destruction is the key belief of the samurai

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by ALTERNATECH

Agreed and in addition :

Areva's assessment , flawed as it is in some spots , is that ALL of the fissile material from #4 became aerosol, clearly they are at least somewhat wrong on that from the poolium falls , but a large mass of it did.

Based on test for aerosol production from fissile materials the particulate size tends to clump in a range between 1.5 and 9 micrometers with few tending to clumps over 30micro meters , pressure is almost an insignificant factor in the aerosol formation but heat is very critical( the higher the temperature during production the more material is aerosol-ed) , certainly a concern when considering "open -air" melt-downs as the pool in four was

You mean this aerosol....

Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

Under a number of probable conditions plutonium forms aerosols of micron-sized particlates. When lost into uncontrolled air these particulates can remain suspended for a significant time, and if inhaled they are preferentially deposited in the deep lung tissue, where their long residence time and high alpha activity can result in a locally intense tissue exposure. The lung cancer risk associated with these radiologically unique aerosols is unknown to orders of magnitude. Present plutonium standards are certainly irrelevant and probably conservative. Even so, the fact that under present standards, the permissible air concentrations are about one part per million billion is a commentary on plutonium's potenial as a pollutant. Its insolubility and long half-life make the continuing resuspension of particulate contamination another unresolved concern of serious proportions.

From Wiki

Overview Plutonium like other actinides readily forms a dioxide plutonyl core (PuO2). In the environment, this plutonyl core readily complexes with carbonate as well as other oxygen moieties (OH-, NO2-, NO3-, and SO4−2) to form charged complexes which can be readily mobile with low affinities to soil.
* PuO2(CO3)1−2
* PuO2(CO3)2−4
* PuO2(CO3)3−6

PuO2 formed from neutralizing highly acidic nitric acid solutions tends to form polymeric PuO2 which is resistant to complexation. Plutonium also readily shifts valences between the +3, +4, +5 and +6 states. It is common for some fraction of plutonium in solution to exist in all of these states in equilibrium.

Binding to soil

Plutonium is known to bind to soil particles very strongly, see above for a X-ray spectroscopic study of plutonium in soil and concrete. While caesium has very different chemistry to the actinides, it is well known that both caesium and many of the actinides bind strongly to the minerals in soil. Hence it has been possible to use 134Cs labeled soil to study the migration of Pu and Cs is soils. It has been shown that colloidal transport processes control the migration of Cs (and will control the migration of Pu) in the soil at the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant according to R.D. Whicker and S.A. Ibrahim, Journal of Environmental Radioactivity, 2006, 88, 171-188.

Microbiological chemistry

Mary Neu (at Los Alamos in the USA) has done some work which suggests that bacteria can accumulate plutonium because the iron transport systems used by the bacteria also function as plutonium transport systems.


Plutonium ingested by or injected into humans is transported in the transferrin based iron(III) transport system and then is stored in the liver in the iron store (ferritin), after an exposure to plutonium it is important to rapidly inject the subject with a chelating agent such as calcium complex[28] of DTPA.[29][dead link][30] This antidote is useful for a single one off exposure such as that which would occur if a glove box worker was to cut their hand with a Pu contaminated object. The calcium complex has faster metal binding kinetics than the zinc complex but if the calcium complex is used for a long time it tends to remove important minerals from the person. The zinc complex is less able to cause these effects.

Plutonium that is inhaled by humans lodges in the lungs and is slowly translocated to the lymph nodes. Inhaled plutonium has been shown to lead to lung cancer in experimental animals.

and will it bind to Cesium 137 after aerosolization....? There is fractionalization evidence on Pu-239 that it will bind to Cs138 and other evidence that it readily "hitches a ride" with other radionuclides. I don't know about Pu-238, perhaps our nuke experts know more. Link, top of page 112, and it can also resuspend and travel long distances. Link

edit on 12-4-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:33 PM
Safely recycling the corium/poolium:

Using the available materials and conditions in this situation, here is a quite simple solution:

1) Mine a room below the level where the corium is, not directly under the corium, but a safe distance laterally.
2) Drill a hole diagonally to reach the corium, supplying a mantle of ceramic or similar heat-hard substance.
3) Bevor breaking through to the corium, install some controller methods as injectable sand, or heat-hard metal bars that can block the shaft that reaches to the corium. Use whatever experience we have from oil mining.
4) Drain the corium in comfortable quantities and fill it into small containers, thereby aquiring a safe method to handle the substance. Reprocess it off-site.
5) Decontaminate the reactor site using robots.

In this way the very earth shields from the heavy radiation and one gets only as much corium as can be safely handled.

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:38 PM
reply to post by SFA437


We could also use "FUBARIUM"...

As an aside, I hope that the TEPCO-employed and Japanese government-employed watchers of this thread appreciate what we are really doing with this little game of words.

We are trying to tell you that we are absolutely furious and disgusted with your respective leaders' lack of concern for your fellow citizens. At the very least, people within the higher-radiation areas should be evacuated at government and TEPCO expense as soon as possible, by buses or vehicles driven by suitably-protected drivers. They should be removed to places that are safer.

If necessary, the government has the power to take control of various state-run buildings that could be used for accommodation so that these people can be housed with some degree of dignity.

It is not good enough to say that these people should evacuate "within a month". That is too long and your leaders know it.

It is not good enough to say that these people are "on their own" and will get no government support to help them leave their homes and land. No, their currently elected government should do what it is sworn to do and offer support and resources to its people in their time of need.

Your people's lives and even those of your women's unborn children are being threatened, and your government of today does not offer them all possible help with all possible speed?

Do you know how we in other countries see this inaction by your leaders?

We see it as many things and they are all bad. But one thing that is very, very bad is that we see weakness. Strong leaders take action and place themselves after their people. Weak leaders wait and care only for their own selves and ignore the greatest threats.

It is a leader's duty to lead and to act swiftly to protect the people!

(Moderators: if this is considered off-topic then please do whatever you feel necessary. But I had to say this openly.)

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:47 PM
Global DIRT video of members measuring radiation near Fukushima.

Global DIRT- Nuclear Assessment Team detects radiation levels above 100uSv over 25 km from nuclear plant

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:54 PM

Originally posted by iforget

Originally posted by zorgon

AARGGGGGGGGG Bring back the Samurai

this is part of the problem loyalty to your master even at the expense of your destruction is the key belief of the samurai

True, but at least if the head samurai screwed up, he'd offer up his own head.

Which isn't happening here.

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:55 PM
reply to post by Wertwog

Great post. The importance of TEPCO and others ignoring the danger and quantity of Pu-239 in the air has and is being grossly understated.

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 03:07 PM
But but...the IODINE 131 is the ONLY thing that is important.

They can just keep talking about the 131 and how that is overstated, and then ignore all the other radiation sources while they constitently "debunk" the 131 concerns.

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 03:12 PM

Originally posted by windwaker
reply to post by ikonoklast

People who willingly eat radioactive food and tell others to eat it don't really deserve to live in my opinion. I have no sympathy for them.

In 1966 when a US plane crashed with atomic weapons on-board an official swam at the contaminated beach to prove it was all OK..

More than 40 years on, Spain revisits a nuclear accident ·

Wide contamination from US bomber crash found ·

Study prompted by rapid growth of holiday villas

Nobody died or is known to have developed cancer, but Spain's worst nuclear accident took three months and the work of 1,600 US specialists to clean up before it was promptly forgotten outside of Spain.

The amnesia was helped along with a now legendary stunt by the former minister of tourism under Franco, Manuel Fraga, who took a much-photographed swim in the Mediterranean with the American ambassador to prove the waters - and budding tourist industry - were safe.

The nuclear regulatory agency is expected to prohibit building or selling produce grown inside the contaminated area at its meeting today, according to El País.

"There is no health risk," Teresa Mendiz bal, director of environmental studies for CIEMAT, told El País.

"The dose of radiation is very low, and we are only restricting use of the land where there is americium, but only as a precaution."

40 years later it's still contaminated.

More info.

The US won't pay for clean up anymore and the local people reckon they are fat and hairy and have large veggies because of it!


El Pais has discovered that the US government will not continue to pay for cleanup efforts or continuing blood tests for the 1,500 people who live in Palomares. The US government pays some 314,000€ a year to the Spanish government to control the effects of the nuclear spill in the village, caused after a long range US bomber equipped with nuclear bombs crashed there in ’66.

At least one bomb split open, spilling radiation across the village.

Locals believe this is why the people of Palomares tend to be large and hirsute, and their vegetables larger than normal.

edit on 12-4-2011 by Procharmo because: Additional info

edit on 12-4-2011 by Procharmo because: Additional info

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 03:33 PM
march 15th, my thoughts, as alias "mud"
March 19th article "Govt 'rejected U.S. offer to help cool damaged reactors ..."
Japan refuses to receive aircraft with Russian nuclear scientists March 15
I'm sure Japan didn't want this to happen nor did I,,,, BUT THAT DID NOT HELP!!!

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 03:34 PM
Oops! Glowing seaweed anyone...from Washington state?

Looks like those little bits of invisible slow death are more migratory than they thought (or admitted to, at least).

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 03:41 PM

Latest Earthquakes Worldwide and Earthquake News

M 5.8, eastern Honshu, Japan
39.430°N 141.820°E

Tuesday, April 12, 2011 19:37:49 UTC
Wednesday, April 13, 2011 04:37:49 AM at epicenter

Depth: 44.80 km (27.84 mi)

Real-time, worldwide earthquake list for the past day

Posted on 12 April 2011 | 7:37 pm
edit on 03/28/2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 03:51 PM

Originally posted by Tworide
So far these swarms are not close to any particular volcano,

really? What about this one?

Mt Fuji
35° 21′ 28.8″ N, 138° 43′ 51.6″ E

Japan's Shinmoedake volcano spews ash and rock two days after quake

The Shinmoedake volcano in Japan's Kyushu has erupted two days after the massive earthquake and tsunami that left more than 10,000 people dead, reports said on Sunday. There was no confirmation on whether the eruption was related to Friday's quake. The volcano, which was dormant for several weeks after erupting on January 19, began spewing ash and rock on Sunday, Japan's meteorological agency said.

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 04:06 PM
reply to post by notsofunnyguy

I saw it on the news yesterday and today they had breaking news about not getting one of the space shuttles.

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 04:19 PM
I have not seen The Red around, Mmm . I wonder if he is catching Possum for the cook pot,,Come back Red we miss you..

edit on 12-4-2011 by rancher1 because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 04:21 PM

colloidal transport processes

Investigating further. I haven't been able to dig up much on atmospheric colloidal transport processes for Pu & Cs-137, however there is strong evidence of groundwater transport, often several kms from the deposit site...

Pu+Cs-137 transport study

Sorption of actinides, particularly plutonium, onto submicrometer-sized colloids increases their mobility, but these plutonium colloids are difficult to detect in the far-field. We identified actinides on colloids in the groundwater from the Mayak Production Association, Urals, Russia; at the source, the plutonium activity is ∼1000 becquerels per liter. Plutonium activities are still 0.16 becquerels per liter at a distance of 3 kilometers, where 70 to 90 mole percent of the plutonium is sorbed onto colloids, confirming that colloids are responsible for the long-distance transport of plutonium. Nano–secondary ion mass spectrometry elemental maps reveal that amorphous iron oxide colloids adsorb Pu(IV) hydroxides or carbonates along with uranium carbonates.

Study by, David D. Breshears
Environmental Science Group, Los Alamos National Laboratory

Based on the information above, we believe that 13’Cs and 241Am are excellent tracers for =‘Pu and that their transport is closely associated with the behavior of small particles in soils. We have applied this finding to our studies of wind erosion, water erosion and vertical migration.

Wind transport
Our results show that episodic, high-wind events disproportionately increase resuspension. In fact, we found that the mass of resuspended soil during windstorms can be many orders of magnitude greater than that under average
wind conditions.

Water transport
Water erosion is a second major processes that effects contaminant transport, and yet major knowledge gaps exist,particularly site-specific data for semiarid DOE sites. Intense convection thunderstorms often play a major role in generating runoff and erosion in these environments.

Vertical migration
Vertical migration is an important potential mechanism for loss of surface actinides that could also lead to groundwater contamination. We are using 134Ctsr acer as an actinide analogue in laboratory studies designed to develop site-specific loss rates for actinide transport models. Vertical migration is being investigated as a function of soil type, water percolation, and wetting / drying cycles that promote macropores (cracks) in soil profiles. Because Pu solubility under normal environmental conditions is known to be extremely low, our hypothesis is that any vertical migration of Pu is likely to result from either the downward transport of soil particles through macropores in the profile, or from the transport of colloidal materials through the soil matrix itself.

So. Doesn't Japan get typhoons? According to this the plutonium ain't gonna stay put.
edit on 12-4-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 04:25 PM
reply to post by JustMike


Along that line of thinking - that we here at ATS seem to be doing our "homework/share" on many unique avenues of investigation and consideration of alternatives and solutions and public information - at the very same time NHK WORLD is running paper-cutting and public park virtual tours and wood carving and now book reviews... it's like there is no crisis... denial is a river in Egypt.

The only mention in the last hour or so has been 2 short newscasts mentioning - in a flat tone as if describing grass growing - the "problem" at the FD plant now equals Chernoble - but officials assure that there has been no direct harm to humans in general.

These are quotes from the newscast on Japanese TV:

"We are disappointed to learn that the crisis is not over,"
(South Korean spokesperson...who did not look at all happy).

"... 1% of available released including margin of error..."

"... 31 million total units Iodine 131 "available for release"; "released" about 130, 000 iodine 131..."

"...100's of thousands of terabequels of radioactive Iodine released..."

"March 15 was the largest release of radioactive materials..."

"...the radioactivity of Iodine 131 falls by half in 8 days..."

Are they going to continue this travesty to the very end - when the TV cameras glow so hot that even the protective suits the operators have been forced to wear for weeks at a time (no wash-and-wear-here) do not offer enough protection - what will they do then?

We are witness to the end of civilization as we know it.

We are aware that the plan is being executed and our brothers and sisters are suffering now... are we next? Of course we are - because we are everywhere!

An interesting graph would be how many different countries are represented at any given hour by members on-line ATS. Springer, Skeptic Overlord - does that graph exist and would you care to share it? Maybe a high-traffic day - one could compare it with other high days on various subjects - maybe more Americans are on the Japan nuke thread by percentage than say - Egyptians.

How many of us know someone directly involved/affected by the multiple Japanese disasters of late?

We share a very small planet, and the bad guys want to take it away from us.

In closing, we share these thoughts from brother Robert Ghost Wolf.

The greatest thing we have for healing is the human spirit.

Spiritual Love is the answer. True knowledge is beyond words.

We are creating at this moment what our Tomorrow will be.

These challenges to life and sanity on this planet must be met with clear minds and sound hearts, so may your 2011 see you embracing its highest potential and onward through the fog!


Global Emergency & Disaster Info

edit on 12/4/2011 by thorfourwinds because: color tag?

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 04:27 PM
reply to post by maria81

Sounds good but how do you get close enough to the corium inject, drill or mine anything? All your people will be dead and your "robots" will go crazy and fizzzout from the heat and rad levels. Come on people, all these pages and we still don't understand radiation? There is no way to "safely handle" corium, if there was this would have been over a while ago

Think "mini sun". You get the picture.
edit on 12-4-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 04:48 PM
found this old interview interesting, some healthy additional insight to certain behaviors expressed by the uppity ups anda lotta other stuff.

posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 04:49 PM
reply to post by maria81

Sand mixing with the fuel at Chernobly stopped the corium... this sand was not injected, but came from the sand that the reactor had as a secondary confinement. This sand mixed and melted with the fuel and vitrified the mixture (turned it to glass.) This was not discovered till after when they went back in to see what had happened to the molten fuel

TEPCO should have used sand instead of water... controlled meltdown.... to late now I think

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