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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 279.htm
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posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:19 PM
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YES! I found the post with the info about the graphite bowl:


Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by 00nunya00 I forget what it was called, I will go back and search the thread for the pic after I post this, but do you know if that's the case in these reactors? I never said anything about it because I figured if these actually used the graphite, it would be mentioned as the same risk during full meltdown.


Here....


The plants at Fukushima are so called Boiling Water Reactors, or BWR for short. Boiling Water Reactors are similar to a pressure cooker. The nuclear fuel heats water, the water boils and creates steam, the steam then drives turbines that create the electricity, and the steam is then cooled and condensed back to water, and the water send back to be heated by the nuclear fuel. The pressure cooker operates at about 250 °C.

The nuclear fuel is uranium oxide. Uranium oxide is a ceramic with a very high melting point of about 3000 °C. The fuel is manufactured in pellets (think little cylinders the size of Lego bricks). Those pieces are then put into a long tube made of Zircaloy with a melting point of 2200 °C, and sealed tight. The assembly is called a fuel rod. These fuel rods are then put together to form larger packages, and a number of these packages are then put into the reactor. All these packages together are referred to as "the core".

The Zircaloy casing is the first containment. It separates the radioactive fuel from the rest of the world. The core is then placed in the "pressure vessels". That is the pressure cooker we talked about before.

The pressure vessels is the second containment. This is one sturdy piece of a pot, designed to safely contain the core for temperatures several hundred °C. That covers the scenarios where cooling can be restored at some point.

The entire "hardware" of the nuclear reactor - the pressure vessel and all pipes, pumps, coolant (water) reserves, are then encased in the third containment. The third containment is a hermetically (air tight) sealed, very thick bubble of the strongest steel. The third containment is designed, built and tested for one single purpose: To contain, indefinitely, a complete core meltdown. For that purpose, a large and thick concrete basin is cast under the pressure vessel (the second containment), which is filled with graphite, all inside the third containment. This is the so-called "core catcher". If the core melts and the pressure vessel bursts (and eventually melts), it will catch the molten fuel and everything else. It is built in such a way that the nuclear fuel will be spread out, so it can cool down.


Interesting reading here
scienceblogs.com...




posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
YES! I found the post with the info about the graphite bowl:


Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by 00nunya00



The third containment is designed, built and tested for one single purpose: To contain, indefinitely, a complete core meltdown. For that purpose, a large and thick concrete basin is cast under the pressure vessel (the second containment), which is filled with graphite, all inside the third containment. This is the so-called "core catcher". If the core melts and the pressure vessel bursts (and eventually melts), it will catch the molten fuel and everything else. It is built in such a way that the nuclear fuel will be spread out, so it can cool down.


Interesting reading here
scienceblogs.com...


Well then all is ok if it has this Bowl to catch it all ! Right ?



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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NEWS ADVISORY: What seems to be white hazy smoke rising from No. 3 reactor at Fukushima Daiichi plant (09:36)

NEWS ADVISORY: White steam-like vapor rising from No. 2 reactor at Fukushima Daiichi plant (09:34)


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Something is still cooking.
edit on 21-3-2011 by MedievalGhost because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:41 PM
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I have started wondering about the possibility of adding low melting point metallic neutron poisons (eg: lead-bismuth) to the areas under the reactor likey to have, or to form, a melt pool.

It could be pushed in like a flexible rod or wire from quite a distance away and would only require a small hole in any existing shielding to penetrate into the pool.

Basically this would both dilute and hold the melt, perhaps stabilizing it enough to allow encasement in the short term.

In this example we would not attempt to dissipate the heat but would be using it to melt the "poison" into the pool.

When enough had been added, the pool would cool of its own and would solidify.

Just an idea.


edit on 21/3/2011 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:46 PM
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Kyodo News just issued an advisory that the smoke that prompted the worker evacuations yesterday is still rising:

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NEWS ADVISORY: What seems to be white hazy smoke rising from No. 3 reactor at Fukushima Daiichi plantNote
#
09:34 22 March
NEWS ADVISORY: White steam-like vapor rising from No. 2 reactor at Fukushima Daiichi plantNote

Not good news at all. I wonder exactly where it is coming from? A breach in primary containment, boiling of the used fuel pond water, from fuel rods catching fire in the used fuel ponds, or something else entirely???



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:49 PM
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NEWS ADVISORY: Works to restore electricity, spray water at Fukushima nuke plant stalled (09:46)


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Sounds like they have evacuated the plant due to high radiation levels.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:51 PM
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Japan Sales of Nuclear reactors to Viet Nam and Turkey 'on hold'



German Chancellor announces that if Japan does not have the ability to control their reactors in such an emergency, then Germany needs to look at their nuclear program carefully

www.livestation.com...



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by MedievalGhost
Sounds like they have evacuated the plant due to high radiation levels.


Was just about to post that. Seems new white smoke, not steam was issuing from #2 and heavy black smoke from #3... Radiation levels shot up so the evacuated the workers..







Thermal image posted earlier



www.livestation.com...


edit on 21-3-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

German Chancellor announces that if Japan does not have the ability to control their reactors in such an emergency, then Germany needs to look at their nuclear program carefully

www.livestation.com...



The US had better be doing that too, this is going to be political havoc and in the end it doesn't matter because EVERY choice ends up being the wrong one.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


And yet the panic-control 'experts' on NHK news just stated that smoke rising from the reactors does not mean the current situation is deteriorating. Yeah right.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by Wertwog
 


Well, I'm not sure how reliable the original reporting of "tribe.net" is, but Wiki mentions nothing about any initial projection of how long it *should* last, only that about two years later they knew it would only last 20, with 30 being the far-optimistic estimate.



Well seeing as how that article was quoting Professor Alexei Yablokov, President of the, Centre for Russian Environmental Policy I think it's fairly credible, and as you know Wiki can't be seen as the be-all-end-all either.. So no matter, you've focused on the 50 years and to me that wasn't issue... it was the fact that anything new needs to last for a few years.



What they built at Chernobyl was slap-dash and good-enough. Hopefully, what they'll do with Fukushima will be much safer from the beginning.


I think that whatever is built is likely to be slap-dash and good-enough, but I was simply pointing out that when we are thinking about this - here on this thread - we should consider those 7 points.

1. Seismically indestructible
2. Tsunami proof
3. Typhoon proof
4. Terrorist proof
5. Won't allow the cores to enter the water through the ground
6. Proves containment for the radiation
7. Will not decay due to heat or radiation for a reasonable period of time

Considering the expense, manpower and risk of building such a tomb it should at least last a while right?



The long-term situation isn't hopeless, is all I'm getting at.


Never said it was, curious you would get that out of my post. Difficult? Yes. Near impossible Yes. Hopeless? NO. And of course, the solution may not involve "building" anything. Maybe someone has come up with a magical force-field technology (sarcasm). As far as I can see all ideas are on the table.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by chr0naut
 


I can't figure out why they haven't been doing this all along, or at least pumping in loads of boron.... Hell try anything, once they are fairly sure there isn't going to be a catastrophic meltdown... bury the core in it, with sand and rock, and top it off with thousands of tons of concrete.

Anything like this would be better than just spraying water at it and venting radioactive gas and steam continuously.

Thing is, I don't believe that they believe the containment bowl will hold a catastrophic meltdown and that could be why they haven't already done this and entombed them... Especially in reactor #3 with the MOX fuel.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
Unsafe levels are in their water levels and they're only supposed to wash with it. What is over 100 million people drinking?


Not milk...

Despite the President and an expert telling people not to over react and that it is not harmful to consume short term, they have on the other hand ordered shipping of certain foods stopped and milk dumping has begun







Since Japanese eat a lot of fish... this high level contamination of sea water does not bode well for the short term either.

As to water, normally in a disaster you could catch rainwater or snow and boil it to drink, but that doesn't work if it has radioactive particles in it



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 


Well, then we're in agreement.




posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Wertwog
 


The reactor core holds the fuel rods apart physically. The neutrons being liberated, and which cause the fission of the fuel, like all radiant enery follows the inverse square law.

Quite small physical distances can therefore attenuate the energy considerably.

In a moltern pool, however, there is no slowing of the chain reaction. It is in the pool that a criticality event can happen. It all depends on how much fuel, and how active it is.

Under Chernobyl, as I understand it, the compartmentalised rooms into which the pool leaked, reduced the mass of the total pool by dividing it up.

I believe that the sub surface under the Japanese reactors is similarly divided to reduce the danger in a meltdown situation.

If they had exceeded the original designed fuel level of enrichment, then it is also possible that the designed-in safety's are insufficient to prevent criticality.

You must remember that a standard PIT (Plutonium Initiation Trigger) in an A-bomb only contains about 3kg of Pu239 and here we are talking about much more mass (but hopefully at much lower purity).

edit on 21/3/2011 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)


Hummmm, thank you. I am guessing then that we have a 50/50 chance given we are in meltdown now this will soon be tested.

Any thoughts on my other posted questions?

I am so sad for beautiful Nippon. May the gods bless and protect them.
edit on 21-3-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by shagula
Just to give an idea of what was locked away in Chernobyl, and I wish we had a modern reading of what it's like inside the sarcophagus (unless one has been theorized and posted - I missed it if it's there).


yes you missed it...

Chernobyl Disaster Documentary
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Bottom of page 1 for current entry into the building. I posted it a few pages back with pictures here



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 08:08 PM
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BREAKING NEWS: Radiation 1,600 times normal level 20 km from Fukushima nuke plant: IAEA (10:06)

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20 km from the plant?! Damn
edit on 21-3-2011 by MedievalGhost because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by MedievalGhost
BREAKING NEWS: Radiation 1,600 times normal level 20 km from Fukushima nuke plant: IAEA (10:06)

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20 km from the plant?! Damn


Uh oh.

How long did it take them to decide the number they were going to report?

How accurate is this one?




posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 08:12 PM
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Thanks so much for the on-going information from all.

How can it be that THIS is...just now...occurring to folks as needed solutions that would have to be made?


In another setback, the plant's operator said Monday it had just discovered that some of the cooling system's key pumps at the complex's troubled Unit 2 are no longer functional — meaning replacements have to be brought in. Tokyo Electric Power Co. said it had placed emergency orders for new pumps, but how long it would take for them to arrive was unclear.

Source

Wouldn't it have been a "play it safe" concept to have ordered these the day of the disaster? These are the kinds of too late in the game conceived solutions that should have, could have, been predicted early on.

I understand how heroic the effort it is here...but how can you not see that the light at the end of that tunnel - day one - was the light on a freight train coming at you...and get full replacements heading in immediately.

So much suffering. So very sad. Prayers for Japan and its people and indeed - our world.

Peace.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by MedievalGhost
BREAKING NEWS: Radiation 1,600 times normal level 20 km from Fukushima nuke plant: IAEA (10:06)

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20 km from the plant?! Damn


Uh oh.

How long did it take them to decide the number they were going to report?

How accurate is this one?





Agree. If this is the 'official' number, one has to wonder what the actual radiation levels are.




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