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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 



You're getting it. Fallout is just debris in the air created by an explosion or the like. Soot from a fireplace could be considered fall out in a way. It spreads by the wind, and is brought to ground by gravity, rain, snow, etc.

Any situation that can produce an airborne plume of dust, soot or other wind carried debris can produce fall out. It's the concentration of radioactivity in that debris one should be concerned about. In my humble opinion, any nuclear or radioactive fall out has the potential to be dangerous, but again that danger is relative to its concentration.

And again.....radiation will not leak out of a reactor. Radiation around a reactor is there as a by product of fission. The vessel does not shield you from the radiation. The radiation goes through the reactor. That's why there are different levels of containments built around it....water, lead, concrete etc are shielding materials. It is radioactivity as radioactive water that would leak from a cracked vessel.




posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


Hey apacheman

Considering that you have experience calculating RADS exposure and ETA of RADS would you mind
giving some input here

www.abovetopsecret.com...&addstar=1&on=10772849#pid10772849

???

It would be greatly appreciated



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 





I'm asking about the fallout----how is the fallout even created? Or are you saying that all radiation people/animals got from Chernobyl was from direct exposure to the plant itself and not from the fallout it generated? Germany was radiated from the plant itself, and not from fallout that floated over there and settled and exposed them over the years?


Hi there, I live in the UK and I am aware that farmers in some (small) areas of the UK are STILL having sheep monitored, and in some cases destroyed, as a direct result and legacy of the radiation contamination caused (on the ground) by the fall out from the cloud(s) of radioactively contaminated matter from the Chernobyl disaster; Airborne particluates [*steam] and fine dust, that drifted many miles then fell (in rain, etc.) in many European countries.

That was 25 years ago.

The explosion of the reactor was very powerful and created lots of highly heated, highly radioactively contaminated and airborne dust and particles, the wind carried the plume over large distances, and in some areas it fell in sufficiently potent or large quantities to cause issues, to this day.
edit on 12-3-2011 by curioustype because: Added steam - should have mentioned steam?



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by AdonisDNA
sorry left out the news story , it says "terrified kids screamed "Godzilla! Godzilla!" as the huge quake tossed their school around like a child's toy" ive got like 10 web pages open at once


link terrified kids screamed "Godzilla! Godzilla!" as the huge quake tossed their school around like a child's toy

edit on 11-3-2011 by AdonisDNA because: (no reason given)



www.thesun.co.uk...
edit on 11-3-2011 by AdonisDNA because: link added


It's from the Sun, that doesn't count as a proper source of news. If you don't live in the UK you might not realise this, but The Sun is considered to be tabloid trash



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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Something to never forget: ANY ionizing radiation is bad. Minimise all exposure.



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


You make it sound like a small nuclear bomb has gone off.
All that's missing is the classic "mushroom cloud" over Japan.
I'm wondering how bad is this compared to say the bomb that went off over Nagasaki in 1945?
----------------------------------------------------------------
One thing is for sure. Nuclear power generation just got a black eye.
Bring in the Pebble Bed Reactors.



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by Hugues de Payens
 


Right on, we're eon the same page now. So the rest of Japan shouldn't really need to worry about fallout and whatnot unless there's a fire and wind that carries radioactive particulates away from the site, or some other situation that creates a lot of particulates to carry it. That makes sense.



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by curioustype
 


Hmmmm.....you bring up a good point, maybe we can get this clarified: if they're pumping seawater in there to cool it down, and there's a huge breach in the containment walls and roof, won't the water create a bunch of steam to carry radioactive material, for what----10 days like they said?



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:24 PM
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I find it shocking, when the Japanease tried to play down the explosion, when everyone saw with thier own eyes from the Camera situated near the Nuclear Plant showing the explosion.

Nothing like trying to cover this up.

Now as a result,3 have low levels radiation contamination, how manymore are going to be harmed by this. Misery on top of misery. Completely Shocking.
edit on 12-3-2011 by AnonymousFem because: Sorting Spelling



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00

OK, let me give you a little background info on the radiation itself.

Uranium-235 is radioactive, i.e., it tends to break apart into smaller atoms, simultaneously releasing gamma particles (photons, essentially) and energetic neutrons. An energetic neutron will, if it encounters another uranium-235 atom, cause it to break apart (split or decay) as well most of the time. Inside the reactor, there is so much uranium-235 so close together that when one atom decays, it releases energetic neutrons which hit other uranium-235 atoms, causing them to split and release more energetic neutrons, etc., etc., etc.

Each decay also releases gamma radiation (photons) which are absorbed as energy by whatever they run into, producing heat. The energetic neutrons also release energy as they become regular neutrons. All this absorbed energy transforms into heat, which is what is used to make the steam to turn the turbines and generators.

Now, in order to slow this chain reaction down, there needs to be something besides uranium-235 for the neutrons to hit... that something is the control rods. Water also works well, since it will absorb those energetic neutrons. This is why the two closed-circuit cooling loops, since water becomes radioactive easily when in the presence of energetic neutrons.

During a meltdown, the fuel actually melts into a liquid (possibly along with the control rods), and there is nothing to stop the energetic neutrons from striking uranium-235 atoms. This creates an uncontrolled chain reaction which continues to split atoms faster and faster until finally there is nothing left except the smaller atoms... and some of those are also radioactive and can decay the same way using the same energetic neutrons! That is what happened at Chernobyl... the reaction ran wild and produced a massive amount of radiation in a short time.

Now remember that radiation times are given in half-lives, that is, the amount of time it takes for half of any small quantity of the substance to decay into something else. So the more the concentration, the more is left after the first half-life period, and so on. If the initial concentration is small, then only half of that small amount is left after the first half-life period.

Japan is pouring sea water on the reactor in order to reduce the concentration of radiation coming off it, so it doesn't take as much time later on for it to decay to safe levels. Ideally, this water absorbing energetic neutrons can slow the reaction enough to allow them to contain it once it solidifies again.

Now, the fallout: remember that the primary radiation coming off uranium-235 is gamma and neutron. Gamma is what would be responsible for local deaths, as it is no longer radioactive once it strikes something and is absorbed as energy. Think of it like a microwave oven with the cover missing... if you're standing behind a wall, it can't get to you, and once a microwave strikes something, it has done all the damage it can do. It's done.

Neutrons are different. They are so energetic and have such a long half-life that they can be absorbed by water and retain their energetic status. The steam from the cooling water will contain some neutron emissions, and will continue to do so even when it is dispersed as water vapor. That water vapor will still be radioactive when it falls as rain or snow, when it collects into rivers and streams, and when it reaches the ocean. It can also still be radioactive when it is absorbed by plants, when those radioactive plants are eaten by animals, etc., etc., etc.

In the case of Chernobyl, a massive number of energetic neutrons entered the atmosphere and the groundwater, in such high quantities that even after long delay periods there is still enough left to do damage. The lack of enough water in the area contributed by making what water was available more concentrated with radioactivity.

Japan is surrounded by ocean. That's probably the greatest advantage they have right now, although it will cause some damage to the oceanic ecosystem. It will also disperse the radiation and make it easier to control the meltdown.

Hope this helps...

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Wow, that totally helps! Thank you so much!

So steam is definitely a big issue, but Japan has the advantage of having so much water to dilute the dose (via evaporation all around, etc) should that radioactive steam disperse. Right on.



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Well, i guess the good news is that "dilution is the solution".
The pacific ocean is huge.



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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View from Tokyo meltdown


At 8:20, they started pouring in seawater but an aftershock forced it to stop at 10:15. It doesn’t seem to be filling the tank, leading to fears that there is a leak and the reactor will never be properly cooled. Edano confirmed that the plant had been emitting 1,015 Sv per hour—about the same as one would be allowed for one year—before the explosion, but he said large amounts of radiation were not being reported now. There are, however, reports that 190 people are affected by radiation.





posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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OK - I posted this earlier as a hyperlink but nobody seemed interested, perhaps a picture will be more useful:

[This is the best image I have yet seen of the damage - the closest since that initial long distance shot of the actual explosion*]



Still no such convincing evidence of the status of the core...perhaps this was just an explosion of hydrogen in the outer structure?
edit on 12-3-2011 by curioustype because: * added detail re: context and relevance to thread



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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From Reuters:
"An estimated of 140.000 citizens are being evacuated from the vicinities of two nuclear plants" (I'm assuming Fukishima I and II)

Wow , 140.000...



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:50 PM
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# 2039: Ian Hore-Lacy of the World Nuclear Association told the BBC he believes the situation at the nuclear power plant - where sea water is being used to cool the reactor core - is under control: "The point is that the heat, decay heat from the fuel drops off very rapidly. So after an hour, an hour following the shut down, it's down to about 2 or 3% I think. And after 24 hours it's down to half a per cent. So the amount of heat you've got to cope with right now is a small fraction of what there was initially."


Someone please explain this to me? If the heat was so low so soon after the shutdown, um, what's the big deal then? Why are we even worrying? Am I totally missing something here?



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 


I was reading just that...i dont make a clue of what are they talking about... because it doesnt make any sence



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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What does everyone think about this??? This facility began using MOX fuel...highly controversial and much more dangerous than uranium based fuel...
I ain't got the smarts too good, but what does mean???
Also, is it a coincidence this plant was to be shut down just weeks from now???

Fukushima reactor receives MOX

FUKUSHIMA (Kyodo) Tokyo Electric Power Co. on Saturday loaded a nuclear reactor in Fukushima Prefecture with MOX, a controversial fuel made with reprocessed plutonium and uranium oxides, as it prepares to become the leading power utility's first facility to go pluthermal.

search.japantimes.co.jp... (slow loading link)

Info about mox here...

www.world-nuclear.org...
edit on 12-3-2011 by odd1out because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-3-2011 by odd1out because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by Eurisko2012
 

Really? A bomb would have quite significantly different effects and consequences, depending on the type and strength. What I've described is what will most likely occur.

Even a catastrophic containment failure won't have the effect a bomb would under the circumstances, but it would still be locally disastrous, globally mostly unnoticeable, but still consequential.



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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#3 reactor?


Different enrichment levels of plutonium and uranium lead to peak burn-ups, which cause weakening of the fuel rods.
A principal limiting factor for the share of MOX in the core and the percentage of plutonium in MOX fuel is the substantially higher release of fission gas within MOX fuel rods than in uranium fuel, which increases sharply with burn-up.
MOX fuel is "hotter" than uranium fuel at equivalent power.
High local burn-up, sometimes more than three times average burn-up, due to the heterogeneous microstructure of MOX fuel, which yields clumps with high plutonium concentration.34
The higher energy of the neutron spectrum of MOX increases the rate of radiation damage to the core structures. This could cause the reactor vessel to become brittle in the end, which is another factor for safety concerns.35

wise mox
edit on 12-3-2011 by Beavis because: (no reason given)




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