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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 176.htm
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posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by psychosilocybin
 


Uh, thanks, where were you 12 hours ago?
I slept on the couch last night after trying to explain to my wife why I was watching news about the event day & night and told her that while I am hopeful that catastrophe is successfully averted, I'm very concerned about the potential worst-case scenario for us on the west coast. She got pissed, said she'd rather not know...???

Actually she does understand the seriousness of the situation and trusts that I will do everything I can to keep our family safe, she just does not want to think it about it, while I can think of nothing else right now.

edit on 17-3-2011 by buskey because: still asleep




posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:18 AM
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Good morning all.

I see spitting on the wildfire didn't work, no one is giving any real data yet, and no one has been evacuated form around the plant... has Japan's PM announced he is going to kick the reactor to restart it yet?


For anyone who is confused about the nGy/mSv/µSv readings... just like a Sv is 100 rads, a Gy is 100 rems. And of course the standard prefixes reply: m=1/1000, µ=1/1,000,000, n=1/1,000,000,000.

I'm going through the pages for last night... replies to any questions shortly.

(yeah, I'm still a bit cynical from last night)

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:18 AM
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If there are still any reactors remaining that have intact vessels, the minute they pump water into the reactor pressure vessel, they will explode.
The water will flash to steam as soon as it strikes the melting core at 3000 to 5000 dgrees F. the vessel can't take the pressure that will be generated.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:24 AM
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A little off topic but since it went that way I will stray for a sec. I just realized how when almost any social issue comes up on a forum such as racial or religious discussion, the conversations sour quickly. When a sexist remark is made, the women all take it in stride and it never becomes much more than a joke(okay some super-fems go crazy.) As a member of the male gender, I must commend you ladies. It's nice to see so much progress made that we can tease each other playfully about what was/is such a major issue(gender equality.)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by JoeGuitar
I don't speak Japanese but this is a compelling video released by TEPCO taken from one of the helicopters dumping water on the reactor(s):

www.youtube.com...


edit on 17-3-2011 by JoeGuitar because: (no reason given)


Wow ..this is very rare video and is from this morning , this guy who filmed this was surely exposed


expecting comments from more knowledgeable people


and from BBC


Professor Gerry Thomas, the director of the Chernobyl tissue bank from Imperial College London, says too much emphasis is being put on the nuclear issue. "I think we're getting an accurate picture as far as the radiological alarm is concerned. What concerns me most is that we're actually focusing on the wrong disaster. The real disaster is the tsunami and the number of people who've lost their lives that way. We're focusing on a disaster that isn't a disaster


www.bbc.co.uk...

edit on 17-3-2011 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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I was just listening to a professor from Imperial College , London, giving his 5 cents on SKY news.
He seemed to think that regarding the fuel pond on top of the no.4 reactor roof, there had to be an issue with the pipes leading up to the roof which are used to get the water up there via the pumps. He said you could go and rent a generator from a local hardware store to get the water up there via the pipes if it was just due to lack of power that they can't currently get it up the pipes. I glean from this observation that the pipes themselves are damaged so even if they could restart the pumps, the water can't get up the pipes. So watching these ineffective attempts to dump water from the air and by hose the inescapable conclusion would be that there is nothing they are going to be able to do .

The presenter then pressed him for his opinion of what kind of death rates they'd be looking at if the fuel rods in the fuel pond all leak their stuff into the air. He was very conservative in his response , suggesting that compared to the death rates caused by the tsunami the numbers would be very low , that the death rate due to the spent fuel rods would not contribute significantly to final figure of the death toll. I was very surprised by this - he actually said that what could happen at the nuclear plant was a *sideshow* when compared to the tsunami. I think he is failing to factor in that radiation doesn't always cause sudden deaths but can take years to kill people. On the Russian news channel earlier they were talking about how Chernobyl was linked to at least 100,000 deaths from illnesses linked to radiation poisoning.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by JoeGuitar
 


Outstanding video find JoeGuitar!


After seeing (what's left) of the tops of those reactors, I feel so much more confident that plugging in a new electric cable and flipping a couple switches will solve the problem.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by premierepastimes
 


There is no major issue on gender equality.

Female = Great
Male = Hmmmm




posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by Yukitup
 


My sentiment exactly. What little infrastructure is left seems to indicate what others are saying; if the pipes are damaged in any way, then getting the pumps going again is an exercise in futility.

From BBC, apparently TEPCO is optimistic that the water drops are "helping". I'm not sure if they are deluding themselves or are intentionally trying to downplay this.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by xavi1000


Wow ..this is very rare video and is from this morning , this guy who filmed this was surely exposed


expecting comments from more knowledgeable people



Me too. Welcome back TheRedneck!



and from BBC


Professor Gerry Thomas, the director of the Chernobyl tissue bank from Imperial College London, says too much emphasis is being put on the nuclear issue. "I think we're getting an accurate picture as far as the radiological alarm is concerned. What concerns me most is that we're actually focusing on the wrong disaster. The real disaster is the tsunami and the number of people who've lost their lives that way. We're focusing on a disaster that isn't a disaster


www.bbc.co.uk...

edit on 17-3-2011 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)


Well, if the Prof "thinks we're getting an accurate picture," then that's good enough for me.


He's probably right, we should be focused on recovering dead bodies instead of trying to save countless LIVING people from a nuclear disaster...

Edit to add: Just had to post the first paragraph of the latest story on CNN, as it relates to "a disaster that isn't a disaster..."


Japan turned helicopters, fire trucks and police water cannons on the No. 3 reactor at the quake-ravaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant and the pool housing its spent fuel Thursday in its latest attempt to stave off a nuclear disaster.

(emphasis mine)

What does CNN know?
edit on 17-3-2011 by Yukitup because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by odd1out

Redneck, what do you think???

I can't disagree with much of anything you said. One concern I have right now, which is echoed by others in this thread, is that simply pouring cold water on this thing will do little to cool it (yesterday evening I calculated that it would take 81,000 gallons of water at 20°C to cool one ton of uranium by 1000°C) but it could easily increase radiation exposure around the plant and beyond by causing new breaches or opening existing ones.

Right now, somehow, the bulk of the radiation seems to be contained inside the plant... for how long, I do not know, but I'm not the kind to look a gift horse in the mouth. If this can continue, there is a small chance that the thing could be allowed to burn down to the point it could be encased without creating the worst-case scenario. Of course, that is assuming the military doesn't crack a couple of reactors open just for spite.


TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by kdog1982
How did they seal Chernobyl?


THIS is how they sealed Chernobyl and it was meant for 20 years. It has been up for 25 years and is cracking open



Forget wikipedia and see what it REALLY took to do the job of stopping it. Everyone should watch this to see the reality

Chernobyl Disaster Documentary
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would suggest that everyone watch this documentary that Zorgon posted lots of good info on what they are facing in japan , it will be a long time before this is resolved "months". Also shows how the extent of the disaster is still covered up to this day. great watch thanks zorgon!



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by Erasurehead
 


I linked from GLP a ham radio operator, so, it can't be sourced obviously. And if the 1,821 (MSV/HR) microsieverts was detected by their sniffer, and will be here some time after Friday noon, so roughly 2 pm, not sure the exact time. My uncle built his own ham radio and talks to many interesting people, astronauts and China/Russia. He was a physicist. Note this isn't my uncle, ok. But I do think ham radio transmissions are a way that some get info out.

I have considered this far worse the chernobyl from the first explosion, knowing this would end up being 6 meltodowns, possibly 100 X worse than chernobyl. They're directly under the jetstream and its blowing our way.

1.8 sv is the high end of the 1-2 sv that on the chart given a few pages back has a 10% mortality rate in 30 days, and 2-3 is 35%. So, what, 20-25% mortality rate?

So, I'm preparing to tape up the windows and doors tomorrow morning save the front door, because I don't know when my son is arriving on his bus. If tomorrow, I'll be using a wet towel and old clothes that will chucked outside afterwards.

I don't believe them. No matter what. Period.

I think what happened in Toronto is dangerous, when the water suddenly leaked.

There was also on GLP mention of some of cesium being detected above Toronto, and a link to a live journal site that had a 404 error. That kind of thing makes me highly suspicious. I don't trust our Gov either.
edit on 17-3-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:45 AM
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Coop says: "Many Japanese citizens have lost faith in statements by their government." And "even the Japanese government is frustrated at the lack of accurate information from its counterparts."

He is echoing our sentiments re the flow (or lack thereof) of information:


cnn.com.../video/bestoftv/2011/03/16/exp.arena.nuclear.japan.cnn

Edit: can't get video linked in here...
This should be the link...

edit on 17-3-2011 by Yukitup because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2011 by Yukitup because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2011 by Yukitup because: keeps linking to the wrong video...

edit on 17-3-2011 by Yukitup because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2011 by Yukitup because: one last try...



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:45 AM
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BBC - Choppers and cannon bring no nuclear relief


So how much material is there in the pond in building 4?
Clues come from a presentation given by a Tepco employee at a conference on fuel storage last November.

It confirms that the cooling ponds had been "re-racked" - in other words, they were storing more fuel rods than allowed for in the original design.

The presentation shows an abundance of spent fuel rods at the plant, taking up 84% of the available space in the various storage facilities.

The dry storage facility was completely full, while a big cooling pool away from the reactors contained 6,291 rods - the maximum allowed being 6,840.

This left a further 3,450 rods distributed between the pools in the six reactor buildings.
How they were distributed is not known. But it suggests that the pools in buildings 4, 5 and 6 may have been very full at the time of the earthquake, given that any older stored rods would have been supplemented by those taken from the reactors for maintenance.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:46 AM
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This link is about 60-70 km from the plant. The geiger counter is pushed off as far as it can to the right.
ireport.cnn.com...

I'm downloading that so it doesn't disappear.
edit on 17-3-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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From Reuters Live:

The latest NISA report: Water levels in reactors 1, 2 and 3 indicate that the fuel rods in all three reactors are only partially covered with water.

live.reuters.com...

News coming out of the area is very slow today. I think they want to keep a tight lid on information since the governments of the world seem to have a different opinion of the situation.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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Nei updated factsheet on fuel rods
 
resources.nei.org...
 

Fact Sheet Used Nuclear Fuel Storage at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant (Last updated 3/16/11) Key Facts ƒ Used nuclear fuel at the Fukushima-Daiichi plant is stored in seven pools (one at each reactor and a shared pool) and in a dry container storage facility (containing nine casks.) ƒ Sixty percent of the used fuel on site is stored in the shared pool, in a building separated from the reactor buildings; 34 percent of the used fuel is distributed between the six reactor fuel storage pools, and the remaining 6 percent is stored in the nine dry storage containers. ƒ Used fuel pools are robust concrete and steel structures designed to protect the fuel from even the most severe events. Pools are designed with systems to maintain the temperature and level of the water sufficient to provide cooling and radiation shielding. ƒ The water level in a used fuel pool typically is 16 feet or more above the top of the fuel assemblies. ƒ The used fuel pools at the Fukushima Daiichi reactors are located at the top of the reactor building for ease of handling during refueling operations. ƒ The used fuel pools are designed so that the water in the pool cannot drain down as a result of damage to the piping or cooling systems. The pools do not have drains in the sides or the floor of the pool structure. The only way to rapidly drain down the pool is to have structural damage of the walls or the floor. As of mid-day March 15, there is no evidence to date that this has occurred. What Could Happen During an Accident? ƒ The systems that cool and maintain water levels in the pools are designed to withstand severe events. If these systems are unable to function, the heat generated by the used fuel would result in a slow increase in the temperature of the spent fuel pool water. The operating temperature of the pools is typically around 40 degrees C or 100 degrees F (the boiling point for water is 100 C or 212 F). This slow increase in temperature will result in an increased evaporation rate. Rapid evaporation of the water will not occur. ƒ Exact evaporation rates would depend on the amount of used fuel in the pool and how long it has cooled. The rate at which the pool water level would decrease (due to evaporation or mild boiling) in the absence of cooling system function would not be expected to lower water levels by more than a few percent per day. Given that there is approximately 16 feet of water above the used fuel assemblies, operators would have a few weeks to find another way to add water to the pools before the fuel would become exposed. For example, water could easily be added using a fire hose. ƒ If the water level decreases below the top of the fuel assembly, oxidation of the zirconium cladding could occur. This oxidation could result in some hydrogen generation. The rate of hydrogen generation depends on the temperature of the fuel assembly, with hotter temperatures leading to higher hydrogen generation rates. However, only the fuel assemblies with the least cooling time would be susceptible to this oxidation and the temperature of the fuel assemblies decreases exponentially with cooling time. ƒ Even if the water level in the pools was to decrease sufficiently so that the fuel were exposed to air, the same level of overheating that can occur in a reactor accident would not occur in the used fuel pool because the used fuel assemblies in the pool are cooler than the assemblies in the reactor. It is highly unlikely that used fuel temperatures could reach the point where melting could occur, although some damage to the cladding cannot be ruled out. The likelihood of cladding damage, as with hydrogen generation, decreases substantially with temperature and cooling time. ƒ There has been some speculation that, if the used fuel pool were completely drained, the zirconium cladding might ignite and a “zirconium fire” might occur. At the surface of the used fuel pool, the gamma dose rate from radiation emanating off the used fuel assemblies typically is less than 2 millirem per hour. If the water level decreases, the gamma radiation level would increase substantially. This increase would be noticed at the radiation monitors near the reactor buildings.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 



I got a screen capture from that iReport. This is the reading roughly sixty to seventy km due west from the nuclear plant. That thing is pegged.

ireport.cnn.com...

RedNeck,
Can you comment on this reading. How dangerous of a level is this showing?

Additional information: According to the person that posted this iReport the G-counter setting is at x10. Not sure what that means.

edit on 3/17/2011 by Erasurehead because: Add source link



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by Erasurehead
 


Have no idea, but its a high as that geiger counter reads. And he said he can't get any closer. I don't own one.
edit on 17-3-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)




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