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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by Human0815
Ahhhhhhhh, there is so much new and horrible Material,
i do not know what to dooooooo


Our PTA Group get a offer for Berthold LB122 Geiger, but not cheap (350.000 Yen/ ca. 4.500USD)
do not know why i/ we should buy them when the Situation is soooo hopeless for the Kids.

Geiger-Counter or participation in a Lab with other Groups?
What do you think?

With a Lab we can check the Food and Soil (for Gardening)

Personally Human Id go with the lab if people already have adequate counters. The lab could be very important in the days ahead. I think if people knew it was run as an honest lab owned by the people that you would be overrun with biz and it would be a good thing for everybody.

And I think Im going to break down and get a water purifier with zeolite too. Maybe theres still time to get it as a Christmas present. That would be sweet.




posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by zworld

Originally posted by Human0815
Ahhhhhhhh, there is so much new and horrible Material,
i do not know what to dooooooo


Our PTA Group get a offer for Berthold LB122 Geiger, but not cheap (350.000 Yen/ ca. 4.500USD)
do not know why i/ we should buy them when the Situation is soooo hopeless for the Kids.

Geiger-Counter or participation in a Lab with other Groups?
What do you think?

With a Lab we can check the Food and Soil (for Gardening)

Personally Human Id go with the lab if people already have adequate counters. The lab could be very important in the days ahead. I think if people knew it was run as an honest lab owned by the people that you would be overrun with biz and it would be a good thing for everybody.

And I think Im going to break down and get a water purifier with zeolite too. Maybe theres still time to get it as a Christmas present. That would be sweet.


Already have 2 on order Z, they have them in stock, at least they did when I ordered ours...



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by Aircooled


I waited too long. Stupid me. This is what you get now


This video contains content from NHK, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by intrptr

intrptr. At the end of the hydrogen grey ballon blast vid, there are other vids displayed at the bottom. The ones I checked all show a violent heat blast associated with the loudness. Thats whats missing from the R4 blast, and why I think that the hydrogen may have only been the trigger, compressing fuel that then exploded. Similar scenario to R3 blast, only the R3 blast contained alot more hydrogen during that phase of the blast, as the remains there on the 5th floor look more like burnt chicken. Of course it's all just a hunch.


ON EDIT: the second blast (600 frames per second) really shows something interesting. The balloon is ignited on the bottom right, and on the upper left, after a nanosecond, there is a gunburst type of ejection of flame. Hmmmm?
edit on 1-12-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by matadoor
And lastly, These interesting shots.


M, thank you for posting that. I totally forgot that Tepco has already been nice enough to help with the mapping of damage and location of items in a big way.

Thanks Tepco. for that I wont say one nasty thing about you for the rest of the night. Till midnight. No later. However, this still applies.
cause you make us
and feel really
giving us
when what we see makes us
and in the end we


ON EDIT: Tomorrow Ill take the different Tepco handouts and find the best ones to use as base maps for the different floors on R4. I cant believe I couldnt remember about that resource already available. I think Ive got all their R4 floor plan maps already saved in their own folder. Silly me.
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posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 08:01 PM
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double post. I didnt even hit the reply button yet
edit on 1-12-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)
might as well use it for something. Here's an OWS quote and an Amy Goodman quote;

OWS sign;


Ill believe a corporation is a person when Texas executes one.

And Amy;


I'll believe a corporation is a person when our government actually taxes one of them


edit on 1-12-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 08:01 PM
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PC and everyone. Just watched the 480 version of the TBS flames and its much more revealing than the 360 version. Unless Im hallucinating. At the 480 version this is definately a flame that blows up numerous times. I dont think they would purposely ignite hydrogen as its vented for the simple reason its not something they have to monitor for once released.

But another thought. wouldnt hydrogen flame seek out more hydrogen, even though its being vented. That lighter than air thing. Follow Alice down the rabbit hole and go boom. Blow up (again) whichever source they were venting.
edit on 1-12-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by zworld
 


Don't sweat it Z. They can't stop us. If anyone would like an area zoomed let me know. M, you proved today that the more eyes that look, the more clues we pull out of each picture. I missed the bent re-bar, and the 4th floor reactor wall, not blown out. So we proved our mound and object wasn't lanched the reactor. Henry in Japan wanted us to have these and now we do. Pic 1 looking N from the S wall of #4, 5th floor. M, I think we found your poles. New boardwalk. Please note on left. 45 degree support braces on the collar.


Pic 2 Looking NW. Our explosion with collar being blocked by crane block.


Pic 3. Cap and bent roof support.


Pic 4 Cap, roof beams and bridge over pool. Looking NW.


Pic 5 Pool and bridge looking north.


To be continued...



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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Picture 6: Again 5th floor #4. Looking NE across the pool'


Pic 7 Looking straight east beside pool. I see a third worker tucked in there.


Pic 8 Looking east and up at where the crane sits on the rail.


Pic 9: Looking North and up. Roof beams over pool and reactor.


Thanks Henry.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 09:48 PM
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A zoom on the fire today. Green colour mixed in with the yellow flame.

And a 4.8 just off shore from Onagawa.
neic.usgs.gov...



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 09:51 PM
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Ex-SKF has just posted the following diagram from Tepcos presentation. Tepco I guess now claims that the corium ate 65cm through the concrete from the base of a groove that they wont say was how deep. from the diagram it looks like a meter thick. This is concerning R1.

EX-SKF also posted this wiki entry on the mobility of corium in concrete with no water.


The fast erosion phase of the concrete basemat lasts for about an hour and progresses into about one meter depth, then slows to several centimeters per hour, and stops completely when the melt cools below the decomposition temperature of concrete (about 1100 °C). Complete melt-through can occur in several days even through several meters of concrete; the corium then penetrates several meters into the underlying soil, spreads around, cools and solidifies.[3] During the interaction between corium and concrete, very high temperatures can be achieved.

The IAE, commissioned by Tepco and NISA, says the corium has eaten 2 meters deep into the concrete. Other experts say much deeper.

Extrapolating just the data used by Tepco or NISA at the presentation we can come up with the following. If the corium has traveled two meters from the base of the groove, two meters reaches far beyond the containment vessel, and into the cement below.

Extrapolating the data from wiki and adding it to the discussion, we see a scenario that comes closer to what TRN, WW, SL and others were saying in March. As soon as the corium hit the concrete, it went into hyperdrive for an hour, producing intense heat and eating away anything in its path, including the vessel, since the depth to it is approximately 1 meter from the bottom of the groove.

Channelization would possibly occur when the first parts of the vessel were eaten through. Red hot tubes filled with corium going south through the concrete. Hours would pass before they got water back into the system. This water hit the top layer of the red hot corium, created steam, hydrogen and intense over-pressures that caused Tepco to vent into the reactor building. Boom.

Then there was another period of no water, then seawater, boron and the kitchen sink. This didnt produce alot of steam, simply because all it did was re-crust the corium, (or add to the crust). The water never got to the corium at the head of the line so to speak, the stuff that was eating its way into the earth.

In essence Tepco is little by little saying the same thing that experts worldwide were saying back in March. The only difference is that in March, while Tepco, NISA, IAEA, NRC etc and others were busy selling the scenario of intact fuel, the experts who knew better and said so, were sh!t upon and called alarmists and drama queens. Today, Tepco and NISA in their typical convoluted fashion hint at the same and the world just stares ahead, watching the watchpiece swing back and forth, back and forth.........
edit on 1-12-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by Aircooled
Two days ago on the same spot. Look how much clearer the cam was 2 days ago.


To GR and Z or anybody here. You both had some questions for our bud in Finland. Post them or U2U me and I will get them to him, to answer. Only then, will we know if he's a genius or if his wing-nuts are loose.


Awesome spotting! AC That fire is still going, you can see the heat distortion above the area now if you watch closely on full screen. The white edge of the roof blurs and appears constantly while other edges elsewhere don't to such an extent. Camera noise is uniform and random sparkly dots, the heat rising has a definite direction in that area.

The finnish guy... where to start.
First I'd like his explaination of the upper atmosphere interaction between nuclides and nitrogen layer.
His explaination for #4 and #2. More info or the photo of that large door that was blown apart and any info on methane hydrates in the area - I've had a good look already. Also if he could look at this fire we are seeing.


And I doubt this is a controlled burn. I've never seen a 'controlled gas burn' at ground level. Look at any oil rig, refinery. They don't have near the nuclear contamination that fukushima has either, however they still sometimes have 100m high stacks! Remember tepco getting worried about rising hydrogen concentrations getting to flashover point? Well a lower water flow rate would mean higher water temperature and likely easier to split hydrogen bonds with radiation.

From PC's link www.simplyinfo.org...



TEPCO has had a habit of doing work that is inconvenient to their public relations tactics at night when people are not watching. Over the last hour plus no movement of staff was found on the TEPCO live camera. Frequently when workers respond to something at night, lights will be moved, turned on and off or vehicle movement will be visible. So far nothing of that kind has been found.


Tepco always goes into hiding when rads are extreme - I don't see any movement either. Smells like sudden recriticality, hydrogen accumulated to required levels, ignition, now we have a long term, radioactive, nuclear fueled hydrogen fire close to R3.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by zworld
 


How'd you get 480p on the tele shot? My YT feed doesn't adjust, i'll try the other stream. Very keen for 480! More resolution the better for us.


edit: webcamesque stream is usual feed.. no dice. but it's 480.

edit: lol @ the corporation/person legalese game. Same things

edit on 1/12/11 by GhostR1der because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by Aircooled
Pic 2 Looking NW. Our explosion with collar being blocked by crane block.

Good job AC. Im beginning to feel at home. Big question though.

Am I hallucinating. On the end of the crane, splattered about is the red stuff. And anyplace there is red stuff, there is the weird scrambled digital effect. Lighten screen for best effect. (AC could you enlarge the crane hook area). If this is the case, was the crane holding something that ended up red and in motion after the blast.

And then theres that stupid poolium. Does anyone have any idea at all how that fits into this picture.

ON EDIT:Now this is just out playing mindwank, but Im beginning to think that digital cameras are showing us a new way to detect radiation. And maybe even different kinds. Like someday we'll have things like on Stat Trek where Spock pulls out the scan and tells you whats what while looking at it. Squiggles with circular patterns are plutonium series, squiggles with rectangular patterns are uranium series, no squiggles but boxes jumbled are cesium series etc. Applications could be written that give detailed readouts of the nuclides at what concentrations are in the picture etc. Like I said, Im just trippin.
edit on 1-12-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by zworld
Originally posted by intrptr
 

intrptr. At the end of the hydrogen grey ballon blast vid, there are other vids displayed at the bottom. The ones I checked all show a violent heat blast associated with the loudness. Thats whats missing from the R4 blast, and why I think that the hydrogen may have only been the trigger, compressing fuel that then exploded. Similar scenario to R3 blast, only the R3 blast contained alot more hydrogen during that phase of the blast, as the remains there on the 5th floor look more like burnt chicken. Of course it's all just a hunch.

Hey zworld... I was wondering. Do people here think that any of the explosions were the result of fission? Or just hydrogen blasts that carried fuel components aloft and scattered them around?
Is there footage of #4 blast? I thought they have hidden that. R1 and R3 were filmed by news helo and thats only reason we see that footage. (outside tepco control) This vid of #4 SFP in april shows debris of blast in #4 reactor building on top of fuel racks. So how this went critical and exploded is questioned. At 30+ seconds you can see the missing fuel racks that have melted away (they're gone). But no compressed fuel here, just the aftermath of explosion in the building above, right? I duno what consensus is here and have only just arrived. Still trying to get big picture of ATS analysis...





ON EDIT: the second blast (600 frames per second) really shows something interesting. The balloon is ignited on the bottom right, and on the upper left, after a nanosecond, there is a gunburst type of ejection of flame. Hmmmm?

Any explosive P wave will form to any containment, spike momentarily, then burst the containment reflecting off the shape like an echo. Did I say that right? Thats why the upward jet in the footage. A balloon is a simple fragile container compared to the complex inner structure of these cement buildings. When just the right mix of H and O2 was initiated, the pressure wave raced down hallways and chambers, and some ducts and plumbing, blowing down doors (a weaker exit than the walls at first), until it had nowhere else to go. Then, in milliseconds, it spiked and blew the walls and ceiling out collapsing floors onto what was left of the interior. A "clean" explosion really because of the Hydrogen, not a lot of charring, right? The black smoke fires (later) were a different form of combustion. But again, these are personal views that I have not brought here yet and I am sure to rub bones with some who think differently as well.
I have another question. There seems to be a lot of focus on the #4 building and I thought it was in cold shutdown for fuel exchange? So the yellow cover was off already? Just asking.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by Aircooled
 

Aircooled... Just some thoughts on what I see as a noob here in analysis of #4 picture you brought.


The fuel plug (or cap) was off the RPV at the time of explosion right?
I ask this because it is level and, though jumbled, all the bolts are visible, still in their flange holes.

And, does any one else see all the whitish looking surfaces in this pic? Is that some form of Ur oxide powder coating from the melting of overheated fuel racks in the pool? It's even visible as white patches on the yellow plug and on some of the bolts. What is that?



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by GhostR1der
 
If it doesnt say it on the bottom right corner then its not available. Supposedly theres stuff of Fuku at 720 but I havent seen it yet.

I was amazed how much 480 improved the blatant out of focus job forced on TBS by Tepco.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 10:45 PM
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I'm willing to bet it would suck to fall into one of those pools.

edit on 1-12-2011 by JohnnySasaki because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by zworld
reply to post by GhostR1der
 
If it doesnt say it on the bottom right corner then its not available. Supposedly theres stuff of Fuku at 720 but I havent seen it yet.

I was amazed how much 480 improved the blatant out of focus job forced on TBS by Tepco.



The cameras they are using are probably at minimum 1080p. A handycam can do this job nowadays with about 80% of the quality of a good rig in most normal situations. So the tech is there just streaming media economy scale and possibly information coverup dictates we won't get it.
Can you link your 480 feed please. (I assume it's the usual one but best to be sure). I'll have a play with it, internet ninja styles.


Originally posted by zworld

But another thought. wouldnt hydrogen flame seek out more hydrogen, even though its being vented. That lighter than air thing. Follow Alice down the rabbit hole and go boom. Blow up (again) whichever source they were venting.
edit on 1-12-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)


If the hydrogen is being produced radioactively, it would have already ignited its' large reserve, this could have forced a hole from the underground floors and now a continuous leak is occurring. It's being produced on the fly, no accumulation required.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by intrptr
Hey zworld... I was wondering. Do people here think that any of the explosions were the result of fission?


intrptr, in the 900s area I presented an entire scenario of an underground complex, weapons production site, the whys, the where, the when and hows. In that theory the R3 blast is divided into four different explosions. There is a pre-blast pulse, a flash, that was on the original oztvwatcher video, but was removed from most versions after I posted about it on this forum. (I have since obtained a version of the original that will be used when the time comes). This pulse/flash has since been corroborated by eyewitness accounts of locals living 10 miles away. This initial explosion occurred to hydrogen from spent fuel that was being re-processed in the UC and went dry until groundwater flooded in through cracks from the EQ.

This did as you say, blew open doors into R3 igniting the hydrogen there, and causing the ball of fire and exhale part of the blast, the first truly visible part.

Then came the next inhale, the fire was sucked back into the RB and it shrunk. This was the initial reaction, a vacuum, to a nuclear explosion that was occurring as the hydrogen explosion compressed the refined plutonium in the UC, and then erupted out R3 and surrounding area (switching yard), the only open path as a small nuclear explosion. f they were also producing tritium then there could have been a fusion component as well.

Ill find some posts to get you started, but beyond that it'll all be even better outlined in greater detail in my report.



I have another question. There seems to be a lot of focus on the #4 building and I thought it was in cold shutdown for fuel exchange?


Which is why so much attention. Its a massive mystery and thats what we do best. Plunge head first into massive mysteries
Haven't found any answers but damn we've been having a good time.

Actually, theres probably more to be learned from understanding the R2/R4 blast sequence than anything else, as that also produced the biggest spike of radiation.

And even though I cant help but tie it into the UC via tunnel system to R2 and R4, Im kind of barely still open minded

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