It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 1020.htm
513
<< 1017  1018  1019    1021  1022  1023 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 07:26 PM
link   
We just had an incredibly strong one second earth quake here in Tokyo. If it had lasted a minute I think that many buildings would have collapsed. 9:25a.m.




posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 07:30 PM
link   
About 1/2 hour ago a new 11-minute documentary (perhaps more of a student film) by Brian Rich appeared on the Fairewinds website, with a brief text introduction by Maggie Gundersen. Here is the link to the documentary, which is hosted on the Vimeo website:

www.fairewinds.com...

I'm wondering if it's a student film, because there are numerous typographical errors throughout (words like cesium and Daiichi), and there are no detailed film credits and hence no documentation of sources used in the construction of this film.

Statements of fact included in this documentary are:

1) In Tokyo, an average of 40 hot particles per day are being ingested by the human population. (No mention of timeframe, whether from August, or just an average since March 2011.)

2. In Seattle and Los Angeles, an average of 5 hot particles per day are being ingested by the human population.

3. 10 tons of plutonium are housed in reactor 3 (the MOX reactor) at Fukushima Daiichi.

4. The 4 spent fuel pools associated with the 4 damaged reactors contain 8 years of spent fuel.

5. In the 1st week of meltdown, Fukushima released more radioactive cesium than Chernobyl and all the nuclear bombs ever detonated through atmospheric testing.

6. The 100-ton fuel cores of Units 1, 2, and 3 melted through containment and fell into the basements of the reactor buildings. TEPCO confirmed this July 6th, 2011. ???"The cores most likely melted through the concrete and entered the ground and water tables."??? (My question marks added...whose conclusion is this, Arnie's?) I guess we'll have to wait for Arnie's next update on the Fairewinds site, or his next press interview, to find out whose opinion is represented in this last quote.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 08:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Wertwog


In order to measure the velocity we'd need to know the height. We could determine the horizontal distance from the dopler effect, but the vertical.... hummm.... get back to you.

I've long thought that hydrogen has nowhere near the power that it would need to 'powder concrete' and do a vast majority of damage it's being attributed to doing on this site. There had to have been another event. A steam explosion or a criticality event, it's just a matter of where it occurred, in the SPF or reactor, or containment/basement floor.

on edit: do we have any construction blueprints or anything else showing the height of the towers or buildings? If so we can determine the height of the explosion then work out the velocity.
edit on 16-8-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)


Ask and ye shall receive! In the process of working on translations I've been looking at a lot of schematics and that one rung a bell, so here's a cross-section of unit 3:

Source: www.kantei.go.jp...



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 09:32 PM
link   
Thanks to everyone that has remained here as well as to the new people
on providing such excellent work. I know it is very time consuming not just doing searches, but the photos, videos, & then seems to Bloody Hell take forever to upload just to post. I VERY much appreciate ALL of you
as this has been one Hell of an Education I NEVER thought I would have to experience, & what a F'ing Ride.
I know TRN had issues to take care of due to tornadoes, & then others left to the lull the same-o-same-o....
But I've been thinking about DestinyOne heavily lately & am concerned....as I thought he or she was in Japan & was providing great information....hopefully they got out!

Cheers
Ektar



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 09:37 PM
link   

I went back to the July 25 IAEA vid, because you gents made me realize this is the back of the CSFP. [I know. It should of hit me before now]. As the stooge patrol rounds the corner....there's the crane. Also thanks for taking another look at those new Fuk pics [On P 1003 I think]. Just by the speed that news report disappeared, makes me think there is alot more info in those stills. I will also but I just don't have the grasp of the workings of these, the way you guys do. I mastered Real Player today and I am still working on retrieving the original #3 you asked us to save. Hopefully tomorrow.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 12:12 AM
link   

Z, if I'm not mistaken the crane is next door to the low building with the fans/domes. Zoom is a bit blurry but..



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 12:53 AM
link   
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Just had a post ruined by BSOD!

I'm going to do a short post and edit it so I don't loose this again.

 


Wert,

I've got this as far as schematics go:



Looking at the schematics, we see that the elevation on the left shows the building in the narrow dimension while the elevation on the right is in the long dimension.

Look at the location of the pools in the right elevation. They are even with the reactor well on either side. One pool is the spent fuel pool to the left of the reactor, while the other is the dryer separator pool to the right of the reactor.

If you're looking at this from the turbine building, the spent fuel pool is in the left third of the building. Now we fire up the way-back machine to come up with this:


Originally posted by TheRedneck
OK, here's what I found out.... zirconium in fuel rod cladding is actually an alloy, zircaloy. Zircaloy is highly resistant to most chemical corrosions; it is, however, susceptible to hydrogen absorption from superheated steam, forming zirconium hydride.

This is from the Wikipedia page for zirconium hydride:

Powdered zirconium hydrides are flammable and can ignite and explode if exposed to heat, fire, or sparks. When heated to above 300 °C, they decompose releasing hydrogen gas, which is also flammable.


In other words, the cladding is not flammable, unless exposed to steam over time, after which it can become explosive. These rods were exposed to a great deal of steam, and the cladding may now be flammable/explosive.

TheRedneck


So, we have the fuel cladding becoming explosive in and of itself. What happens to the contents of a straw when you detonate a cylindrical-shaped charge around that straw? I would imagine that they are compressed somewhat...



source (10MB .pdf direct link)

SFA437 might have some insight on this particular bit, though I am unsure if he still follows this thread...


It is tempered by this:


Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Fractured.Facade

I haven't found anything that compares zirconium hydride to other explosives (zirconium is one of those new metals we are really just learning the uses of, apparently), but based on what I have read I would say low. Hydrogen released from the zirconium hydride during thermal decomposition is extremely explosive, however.

And yes, before anyone asks, it is the same element used in fake diamonds.


TheRedneck


So the yield may not be very large, but I am thinking that any sort of short, sharp, explosive compression of nuclear fuel pellets (spent or not) is not a good thing...It may just be enough impetus to provide for a partial super-criticality event to take place.

 




This is an overhead of R3, the red circle is the reactor and the ugly hole to the left is what is left of the roof above the spent fuel pool. I think the pool did go boom as Arnie says after all.

But I also think it was a bigger even than just hydrogen, though not a full scale nuclear detonation, there would not be enough enrichment in the spent rods for anything spectacular, but it did do a number on the building as is clearly evident.

Yes I am opening this can of worms again (or maybe rather noticing that the lid was never shut)

Looking at that page from Caltech, we also see why so little has been mentioned about the explosion at R4, look at the number of assemblies that were there...
edit on 17-8-2011 by jadedANDcynical because: avoiding BSOD



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 03:31 AM
link   
OK, so here is the latest batch of links extracted from this humungous thread. I have been fiddling about trying to make it work better and I will continue to try to extract a greater percentage of the 12,000+ linked documents.
The links below account for around 6200 and there are another 10% which come back bad, so have probably been removed.
The rest are in the pile I am trying to improve apon. Images are a work in progress.

450+ PDF files linked

770+ Youtube actual video pages linked

1750+ domain home pages

3200+ html pages linked

If anyone thinks there should be any important ones missing, please let me know. The program does not capture all of them due to difficulties in determining file types and not being able to read some source documents from here (or they may have disappeared since being posted)

Also if you want a list in excel spreadsheet format, I can do that too.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 04:27 AM
link   

Expanded Evacuation Zone...



It's not funny...but the guy holding the meter stick is a riot...

www.yomiuri.co.jp...

A lot of Quaking and Shaking going on...



earthquake.usgs.gov...

english.kyodonews.jp...

I have no idea how the folks in Japan are dealing with all this stuff...I'm thousands of miles away and flipping out.

- Purple Chive



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 04:36 AM
link   

Cracks, Steam coming out...not a hoax...



ex-skf.blogspot.com...

Info slowly seeping out...all the quakes...more active volcanoes. Putting thin sheets over these reactors ain't gonna do a friggen thing...

- Purple Chive



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 04:53 AM
link   
reply to post by daniero
 


Awesome D, that's 60 meters.

A rough estimate based on the elapsed time in the video :12 and best guess at ground level is that we can see roughly 30 meters height of the building in the video.

Measuring the height of the explosion we have roughly 20 building 30 meter heights (the very top of the cloud cuts off), plus the area below, so 630 meters. The cloud takes :12 seconds to travel the 630m, 52.5m/sec.

Therefore:
velocity (v) = 630 meter/second
velocity (v) = 226800000.00635 centimeter/hour
velocity (v) = 63000 centimeter/second
velocity (v) = 178582677.16524 foot/day
velocity (v) = 2066.9291338583 foot/second
velocity (v) = 89291338.582621 inch/hour
velocity (v) = 24803.149606299 inch/second
velocity (v) = 0.63 kilometer/second
velocity (v) = 1224.6220312956 knot
velocity (v) = 1.8513076697032 mach sea level 15 C
velocity (v) = 54431999.999878 meter/day
velocity (v) = 1409.2698639943 mile/hour
velocity (v) = 0.39146385110952 mile/second
velocity (v) = 630000 millimeter/second
velocity (v) = 2.1014537997484E-6 speed of light in vacuum
velocity (v) = 688.97637795276 yard/second

Keeping in mind these are all estimates. It's impossible to know the real height of the explosion based on the video evidence.



From Wiki
Low explosives

Low explosives are compounds where the rate of decomposition proceeds through the material at less than the speed of sound. The decomposition is propagated by a flame front (deflagration) which travels much more slowly through the explosive material than a shock wave of a high explosive. Under normal conditions, low explosives undergo deflagration at rates that vary from a few centimeters per second to approximately 400 metres per second. It is possible for them to deflagrate very quickly, producing an effect similar to a detonation. This can happen under higher pressure or temperature, which usually occurs when ignited in a confined space.

A low explosive is usually a mixture of a combustible substance and an oxidant that decomposes rapidly (deflagration); however, they burn more slowly than a high explosive which has an extremely fast burn rate.

Low explosives are normally employed as propellants. Included in this group are gun powders and light pyrotechnics, such as flares and fireworks.

High explosives

High explosives are explosive materials that detonate, meaning that the explosive shock front passes through the material at a supersonic speed. High explosives detonate with explosive velocity rates ranging from 3,000 to 9,000 meters per second. They are normally employed in mining, demolition, and military applications. They can be divided into two explosives classes differentiated by sensitivity: Primary explosive and secondary explosive. The term high explosive is in contrast to the term low explosive, which explodes (deflagrates) at a slower rate.

It would seem that the 'mushroom cloud' was a low explosive that appeared to detonate but actually deflagrated. However, due to the low velocity, it could not have been a hydrogen explosion as Tepco claims, as the velocity was too low (hydrogen velocities tend toward 1200 - 3400) Hydrogen explosive velocities. The wiki supports the idea that these low explosive deflagrations can be triggered by a high explosive blast wave.

As for the hydrogen explosion,
Hydrogen explosions in confined spaces and


Gas explosions, blast waves
The effect of localised explosions may in some situations not only cause high pressures locally but also cause high velocity flames to propagate into less confined but obstructed regions, where the high velocity of the flame may be sustained. Some recently published data by Harris and Wickens (1989) show examples of such an effect which was observed when flame propagation in repeated obstacle arrays was studied. They showed that if a flame entered the unconfined obstacle array at a high velocity, the flame was able to stabilise at a high velocity and high explosion pressure. However, if the flame had a low velocity in the beginning of the array, it was not able to accelerate to high velocities and the corresponding explosion pressure was low.

Meaning the velocity of the hydrogen blast wave would depend on how many obstacles were in the way whether or not it had the explosive pressure to act upon zircolly rods and initiate a criticality.

I have to do some more checking on the typical velocities of nuke explosions to see if they correspond to my numbers.
edit on 17-8-2011 by Wertwog because: correction



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 04:55 AM
link   

TEPCO Video Released...






English....
www.tepco.co.jp...

Daniero? Anything good in this?

- Purple Chive

edit on 17-8-2011 by Purplechive because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 05:04 AM
link   

Schematic Drawing of Water Injection System - Unit 1-4



www.tepco.co.jp...

- Purple Chive



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 06:25 AM
link   
reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


J&C, going to go to bed, way past my bedtime but most of this has been covered in the past by TRN's and other posts and I don't know what I can add to what they've already said. The steaming hole of the SFP looks like the it came from there, but SKF147 did do an analysis way back looking at the blast pattern etc and later had a huge back and forth with Matador etc who was of the same opinion as Arnie (Z also had this opinion back then as well). Sorry, don't have the exact pages but start around 952. I'm sure he explains it better then me.

I'm certain that the reactor core blew either in the reactor or upon exiting it, and we had a hydrogen explosion preceding that explosion. Some additional thoughts to what I've already shared:

1. We know we already had melt-through by that stage, Tepco has now admitted as much.
2. Therefore we know we have hot corium on or falling to at least the secondary containment floor if not the basement.
3. We know there would be water on the secondary containment floor and basement.
4. We know there was hydrogen in the buildings.
5. We have 3 clear bangs evident in the sound of the explosion. Dopler effect tells us these appear after but actually precede the events. a) the hydrogen explosion b) the bolts of the RPF blow c) the vertical blast explosion.

a) The hot corium could have set off a hydrogen explosion upon exiting the RPF.
b) the corium impacts water sends steam vertically creating overpressure upward into the RPV blowing the bolts and downward forcing the corium to go critical.
c) the corium goes critical, we have a small nuke explosion.

I find it hard to believe the SFP blew for various reasons, not just the blast analysis, but the fact that we have;

1. 50ft of water (or so) in the SFP (we think).
2. The SFP room is a large flat floored room with non-reinforced walls (the containment area of the reactor as reinforced walls). The area of the SFP room is much larger than the reactor containment. Much more hydrogen would be needed to fill the space of the SFP room.
3. Rods are separated in sleeves in racks and are low in fissionable materials. I don't see anything 'prompt' here.
4. Hydrogen blast wave (with airborne hydrogen in the airspace above the pool) is more likely to travel across the surface of the water and create a pressure wave on that surface, not on the rods. Yes, some rods would be thrown together, racks collide and such, but the time between the hydrogen explosion and the nuke explosion is only a matter of a second.
5. In order for zircaloy to explode or catch fire it requires heat. ALOT of heat.2150 K (3410 °F). Hydrogen explosion would not have had the temperature to act upon the zircaloy even it had been exposed to the air. The hydrogen in the buildings was from the melting of the zircaloy casings in the reactor cores at that point.

Anyhow, anything is possible. I don't mean to be obstructionist, just telling things as I see it and I'm open considering just about anything at this point. I just wish Tepco was being more forthcoming and we are weren't still in this guessing game. I'd love to put our collective brainpower to use helping them solve situations we know are happening rather than having to endlessly spin our wheels guessing. I'm sure we and several other thousand smart folks would love to help them if only they would ask.
edit on 17-8-2011 by Wertwog because: fixed something



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 06:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by daniero

Originally posted by Purplechive

Daniero...your help once again, please...



Page down on TEPCO web cam link...shows where the camera is and stuff in Japanese...would you please work your magic again?

www.tepco.co.jp...

We are all so grateful!!!

- Purple Chive
edit on 16-8-2011 by Purplechive because: (no reason given)


Luckily I caught a break on this one because there's already an English version of the page here:

www.tepco.co.jp...


Thanks Daniero! Just still trying to figure out the exact location of the webcam. The shrubbery, the smoke coming out from under the catwalk. Just wonder if there is any pipes venting in the area...and what building they would be coming from...

- Purple Chive



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 06:49 AM
link   
reply to post by qmantoo
 


You do a good Work,
documented History, a special Domo from here!

So, i spoke with some People who work in the Government in Yamaguchi,
this is the last Prefecture in Honshu, close to Kyushu.
That Prefecture has high Radiation Readings and no one knows why!
(around 0.100MikroSv/h compared to Tokyo with 0.050MikroSv/h)

This People said to me: "We know nothing",
there is not even internal Governmental Information in Circulation,
no info about "What means Radiation, what is a Sievert, what a counts per minute"!
Of course no info from Tepco!!!

They collect the Infos like us and ask the American Base,
so i gave them some Web-Adresses from Safecast.org and Fairwinds.

A big problem here is that not many People speak or understand English,
there must be a better professional Translation Service to eliminate Errors!

So, i am back in the hottest Tokyo,
after a few Days in a safe Haven without EQ.,
Tokyo is floating or i am still Sea Sick!

No News about the big Demonstration on the 19 of Sep.!
This is very strange!

So, Ganbatte and never Surrender!

Do you know the F'Shima-Wiki?
Fuk-Wiki
There are many English Materials!

edit on 17-8-2011 by Human0815 because: reduce one "0"



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 06:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by jadedANDcynical
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Just had a post ruined by BSOD!

I'm going to do a short post and edit it so I don't loose this again.

 


Wert,

I've got this as far as schematics go:



Looking at the schematics, we see that the elevation on the left shows the building in the narrow dimension while the elevation on the right is in the long dimension.

Look at the location of the pools in the right elevation. They are even with the reactor well on either side. One pool is the spent fuel pool to the left of the reactor, while the other is the dryer separator pool to the right of the reactor.

If you're looking at this from the turbine building, the spent fuel pool is in the left third of the building. Now we fire up the way-back machine to come up with this:


Originally posted by TheRedneck
OK, here's what I found out.... zirconium in fuel rod cladding is actually an alloy, zircaloy. Zircaloy is highly resistant to most chemical corrosions; it is, however, susceptible to hydrogen absorption from superheated steam, forming zirconium hydride.

This is from the Wikipedia page for zirconium hydride:

Powdered zirconium hydrides are flammable and can ignite and explode if exposed to heat, fire, or sparks. When heated to above 300 °C, they decompose releasing hydrogen gas, which is also flammable.


In other words, the cladding is not flammable, unless exposed to steam over time, after which it can become explosive. These rods were exposed to a great deal of steam, and the cladding may now be flammable/explosive.

TheRedneck


So, we have the fuel cladding becoming explosive in and of itself. What happens to the contents of a straw when you detonate a cylindrical-shaped charge around that straw? I would imagine that they are compressed somewhat...



source (10MB .pdf direct link)

SFA437 might have some insight on this particular bit, though I am unsure if he still follows this thread...


It is tempered by this:


Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Fractured.Facade

I haven't found anything that compares zirconium hydride to other explosives (zirconium is one of those new metals we are really just learning the uses of, apparently), but based on what I have read I would say low. Hydrogen released from the zirconium hydride during thermal decomposition is extremely explosive, however.

And yes, before anyone asks, it is the same element used in fake diamonds.


TheRedneck


So the yield may not be very large, but I am thinking that any sort of short, sharp, explosive compression of nuclear fuel pellets (spent or not) is not a good thing...It may just be enough impetus to provide for a partial super-criticality event to take place.

 




This is an overhead of R3, the red circle is the reactor and the ugly hole to the left is what is left of the roof above the spent fuel pool. I think the pool did go boom as Arnie says after all.

But I also think it was a bigger even than just hydrogen, though not a full scale nuclear detonation, there would not be enough enrichment in the spent rods for anything spectacular, but it did do a number on the building as is clearly evident.

Yes I am opening this can of worms again (or maybe rather noticing that the lid was never shut)

Looking at that page from Caltech, we also see why so little has been mentioned about the explosion at R4, look at the number of assemblies that were there...
edit on 17-8-2011 by jadedANDcynical because: avoiding BSOD


Queue up the chorus for me ladies and gents...

That was my initial analysis right at the beginning and I was COMPLETELY stomped on for it. I've just been waiting for others to finally see the light.

Matadoor



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 07:03 AM
link   
reply to post by qmantoo
 


AWESOME! you rock! My database was only about 1/4 done (lack of time) and this means I can move on to other things like doing my laundry. Bless you sir!



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 07:09 AM
link   

6.2 Quake...lucky, pretty far away...but shallow



earthquake.usgs.gov...

- Purple Chive



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 07:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by matadoor

Originally posted by jadedANDcynical

Queue up the chorus for me ladies and gents...

That was my initial analysis right at the beginning and I was COMPLETELY stomped on for it. I've just been waiting for others to finally see the light.

Matadoor


Sigh. Here we go again. I'm getting mighty tired of this merry-go-round. M you were solidly refuted. Please go back to lurking unless you have something new to add? Now that SKF isn't around do you think you will be more right now than you weren't before? NVM, I should know better than to feed you.
edit on 17-8-2011 by Wertwog because: fixed something




top topics



 
513
<< 1017  1018  1019    1021  1022  1023 >>

log in

join