No Western Govt Has Ever Claimed The power To Do This! The King Of England! Not Hitler! Not Stalin!, page 1
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Topic started on 8-3-2011 @ 11:10 PM by morder1


I think "The Judge" is about the only thing I can stand to watch on Fox anymore... He brings up some good points about the erosion of The Constitution...

I had heard a little about the bill that Obama had signed about Guantanamo Bay, but wow, keeping people for life after being acquitted???


reply posted on 8-3-2011 @ 11:14 PM by Misoir
Please mark this as one of the key points in the destruction of civil liberties. By signing this executive order, which in itself is unconstitutional, he has disbanded the judicial system from its rightful activities and exercises, leaving the final decision of ‘guilty’ or ‘not guilty’ in the hands of a single man who heads this country. Just to give you a little sense of how draconian this is, even Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, and the worst dictators in history have never given themselves the legal authority to make the final decision on someone’s life.

He has just signed into law, unconstitutionally, something which will give him supreme authority over any GITMO detainee, he will now be their jury and their judge, the judges and juries or military tribunals are now irrelevant as the final decision lays in his hands. Just as with the introduction of every tyrannical act of government it will be sealed into government then expanded upon, soon this act by the President will be given not only to GITMO detainees but to even further judicial aspects of life. To legal cases involving corporations, the President could decide which corporation wins or if the corporation wins over the individual.

What then stops the President from making the final decision on the constitutionality of laws? He could leave the Supreme Court intact but declare he himself has the final decision on all constitutional matters, this will be passed on to the next President to be expanded upon as well.

This has to be worse than any other act this President or his predecessor has ever done. The Patriot Act seems like a Civil libertarian dream over this. What kind of country will we live in when our President has the final say in every important court case? He takes the side he wants and that side wins.


reply posted on 8-3-2011 @ 11:22 PM by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Misoir





This has to be worse than any other act this President or his predecessor has ever done. The Patriot Act seems like a Civil libertarian dream over this. What kind of country will we live in when our President has the final say in every important court case? He takes the side he wants and that side wins.


Make no mistakes about it, the Patriot Act paved the way for this decision, and "Civil Libertarians" paved the way for the Patriot Act. Civil liberties are "rights" granted people by government, and what can be legally granted by government can be legally taken away by government. As long as people keep insisting on framing rights as "civil liberties", "civil rights", "legal rights" or even "Constitutional rights" those who cast a longing eye on political offices will recognize the language and take full advantage of it.

Even when people are vigilante and ever watchful over their own freedom, it is a difficult task, but when we get lazy and speak the language of a culture taught to those who too readily acquiesce, how can we tell the difference between them and us?


reply posted on 8-3-2011 @ 11:34 PM by bekod
This is why we the people need to take legal action, for any reason a POTUS can declare marshal law, by EO en.wikipedia.org... from the link
Those Executive Orders that are not authorized through Congressional acts frequently contain some other purported justification such as the reference above to "executive power" in Article II, Section 1. These justifications have largely gone untested by the Courts for their validity however.
and then it further says this
The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows[1] "

Clause one is a "vesting clause," similar to other clauses in Articles One and Three, but it vests the power to execute the instructions of Congress, which has the exclusive power to make laws; "To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof." The important distinction between the vesting clause in Article I and this Vesting Clause is that this one is Plenary (i.e., it implies the power the executive to fall in line with what other "executives" around the world at the time could do) whereas the power vested in Article I is subject to limits to be outlined in later sections.
best known case of this is, also from link
Critics have accused presidents of abusing executive orders, of using them to make laws without Congressional approval, and of moving existing laws away from their original mandates.[5] Large policy changes with wide-ranging effects have been effected through executive order, including the integration of the armed forces under Harry Truman and the desegregation of public schools under Dwight D. Eisenhower.

One extreme example of an executive order is Executive Order 9066, where Franklin D. Roosevelt delegated military authority to remove any or all people (used to target specifically Japanese Americans and German Americans) in a military zone. The authority delegated to General John L. DeWitt subsequently paved the way for all Japanese-Americans to be sent to internment camps for the duration of World War II.
could this happen again?
edit on 8-3-2011 by bekod because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 8-3-2011 @ 11:50 PM by bekod
reply to post by HenryPatrick

try to find something really important , good luck i ran it to this www.whitehouse.gov... this list is just to darn long , i hope you read it. and yes you almost need a law degree to sort through the mess, as seen here
www.answers.com... and this is one thing i did not know did you? Executive orders are regulations issued by the President. Provided that they are based either on his constitutional powers or laws passed by Congress, they have the force of law. Federal courts will enforce them just as if they had been enacted by Congress, provided that they do not conflict with federal laws. An executive order that carries out a law may later be revoked by new legislation. An executive order can be nullified, or canceled, if the Supreme Court or lower federal courts find that it is unconstitutional. For instance, in 1952 the Supreme Court ruled that President Harry Truman's seizure of the steel mills during the Korean War violated the due process clause of the Constitution because the President had seized property without being given statutory authority by Congress.

Read more: www.answers.com...

edit on 8-3-2011 by bekod because: added info. and word edit.



reply posted on 9-3-2011 @ 12:50 AM by Ex_CT2
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Agreed! If only we could say this loud enough and long enough.

The Constitution does not "grant" us rights. Our government does not "grant" us rights. The framers of the Constitution meant to acknowledge that human beings have certain rights by the very fact of their existence. We established government for our convenience and safety, nothing more.

And this is what it's all come to--because we became too complacent, too rich, too comfortable, and less watchful. We allowed this to happen. We encouraged this to happen. It was the easy path.

It was the easy path.
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