No Western Govt Has Ever Claimed The power To Do This! The King Of England! Not Hitler! Not Stalin!

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posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Considering that the Patriot Act, which by the way was misnamed, presented to the public as an antiterrorism measure, actually focuses on American citizens rather than foreign terrorists. The ability to expand the definition of " terrorism " has opened the door for the implemented executive order, to now be judge and jury.

This * snip * is just getting crazy!




edit on 9-3-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)


Will you write a thread on the poster in this... it makes an excellent title

Chains we can believe in...

Yes I starred it... great find and the poster sums it up for the rest of this post...




posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by j2000
 


Yeah, I think I'd have to agree with you on that.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by yeahright
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I tend to prefer to have all the pertinent information about something before I get all "let's grab the torches". As much as I like the judge, it would be nice to actually see a source document and I didn't pick up any links or specific info yet in this thread. Maybe I overshot it.

Anyway, here's the link I found to the Executive Order. Haven't read it yet, but will at some point today. I'm offering it up to see if there are any specifics in there that would make sense to discuss.

Yes, I like Judge Napolitano. Given his position (Fox infotainment advocate), let's see if after perusing the actual document we still all agree. Face it, he has an agenda, too and it's one with which I generally agree. That doesn't mean I'm ready to run lock-step behind him based upon his 2 minute rant.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


I highly recommend you all read this document at the link provided above. I read the document as a means to cut through the bull, no rights are to be denied to any detainee. You're all freaking out over nothing and have become the latest victims of fauxnews. Then you may want to question what other garbage you have swallowed whole. Fear mongering sells, quit buying.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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Make sure you don't vote for Obama again!!
Vote Quimby!



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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No doubt worried about what information some of them might leak if they ever see the light of day. Shame on Obama for this, shame on the USA.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by Kali74
 


Then why detain post trial on a finding of not guilty....



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by solargeddon
Wow, there is only one thing I can say to this.... "It's not fair !"


Just a quick question, How is it that this hasn't been reported on Yahoo? or in the English press ? Or have I just missed it?


good question!
imho its cuz the media establishment folks are Obama whores. somebody pointed out last election, the AP is nothing but a transcript service for the Democrat party.
obviously Fox News has its detractors, but they report items NO one in the rest of the media is touching.

now, a question; how much do we owe non-citizens? shouldn't their home countries be interceding so we can have some accountability/judicial process?
and a non-uniformed combatant, not covered by the Geneva conventions...what rights?

the thought of an innocent person thrown in a jail for life is beyond Kafkaesque. even the 'guilty' deserve open due process, right?



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by ripcontrol
 


Where in the order does it say that? I didn't see it.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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My brother is an average American. He says that terrorists deserve what they get and if they weren't guilty of something, they wouldn't be in Gitmo. He says that the government would never abuse this type of power. Did I mention that he is an average American?

We Are Screwed.

I think Obama should be impeached. He is just another one of Them.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by works4dhs
 

These people were tortured for Dick Cheney's personal enjoyment, and they may possess information which doesn't square with the OCT of 9/11. Can't have any of that coming out..

What an absolute disgrace this whole chapter of historic insanity!



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by Whereweheaded
 


I believe that liberals also have common sense. A different common sense than conservatives. Our common senses vary depending upon our upbringing. Common sense for one culture is different from another culture.

Most of what we like to label common sense is merely a reliance on the validity of established memetic systems.
These belief systems serve us in our daily meanderings through life and mostly go unchallenged until they prove to be inadequate in comprehending the nature of the changes surrounding us.
The old liberal meme is "Conservatives are stupid"
The old conservative meme is "Liberals are stupid"

Hence my point about the Bush/Obama administration. True, conservatives saw Obama more clearly than did liberals. However it was liberals who saw Bush more clearly than conservatives.
Both were lauded. Both sides of this fabricated political spectrum would serve themselves better and likewise there fellows by pulling away the curtain and understanding who pulls the strings of all the puppets.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by glad_to_be_His
Here is the White House link to the EO Executive Order - Periodic Review of Individuals Detained at Guantanamo....

I slowly "skimmed" it and honestly can't find the nefarious part that gives Obama this power. Could someone with more expertise (or brain power) please point out the section(s)? From what I read it looks like this is limited only to detainees that were at Gitmo and fell under EO 13492. Is that correct? I understand that this could potentially lead to an overall general implementation (regardless of what it says) but I just can't find the actual language in the Order.

I am in NO way suggesting there is nothing wrong here, I just want to be clear of the argument before I step into it with someone or post it on FB


Thanks!


thank you for finding this. i did try a search last night to no avail, as judge napolitano did not mention the actual order numbers.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by Kali74
 


No rights being denied?.. how about the "right" to be freed by a jury / due process?

"Sec. 2. Standard for Continued Detention. Continued law of war detention is warranted for a detainee subject to the periodic review in section 3 of this order if it is necessary to protect against a significant threat to the security of the United States."

Some govt clowns "periodic review" can nullify a "not guilty" verdict as long as said clowns decide the acquitted represents "a significant threat to the security of the United States."



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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What there needs to be is some mechanism that forces elected officials to actually carry out the policies they promised when they were persuading you to elect them.

If a used car salesman came to your door and promised you an immaculate, brand new luxury car that “ran like a dream”, just sign on the dotted line, then dumped a dirty pranged up rust-bucket on your front lawn, would you just sit back and say “Oh well…S##t happens”?

Obama was ultra-slick selling himself for the presidency. He made lots of promises that he *knew* people wanted to hear, and he promised so sincerely that many, many people believed him. But the proof is in the pudding, and it sure looks like you got the big, steamy brown one.

What’s the point of voting for a president on the basis of their promises when they can turn around and do almost the exact opposite once elected with complete impunity? It makes democratic elections a huge time-wasting expensive charade.

The complete continuity of policies from Bush’s republican government through Obama’s democrat government is proof that the presidency has been usurped by puppeteers that manipulate from behind the screens.

It says a lot about Obama that he can still look Americans square in the eye after gypping you so badly.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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So sad and foreboding. Especially in light of the fact that one of the President's first 'orders' (or dare I say PR stunts) after starting office was to supposedly close Guantanamo. Ha! Tricked again we are.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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Am I reading this correctly? There a bunch of people here who are angry and pissed but it doesn't seem like anyone is intending to anything about it. The government is slowly implementing strategic laws to take away your freedom and to test the will of the people. So far the people are still in an ignorant state, and it seems like they will be there until the US becomes the new Libya. But by then it would have been too late to act because of the size of the police and military force.

Inform your friends about how America will be different in 4 years if you don't stop this! Tell them to tell their friends. Let ATS organize a big march to try and stop this! 50,000 people can do a lot more than 1 angry individual. The people need to show that they won't stand for this or the government will keep enacting little laws like this that will take away your rights from different areas, they won't be big laws but small strategic ones.

This is your nation, America. If you don't stand up for it now than when will you do it? The government is arming its police and military puppets to the teeth and within a few years you will not have an opportunity to fight back.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by OldCorp
Yes, this is intensely disturbing; but not nearly as bad as when Obama Claimed The Power To Assassinate U.S. Citizens WITHOUT A TRIAL!

Now I'll be the first to admit that al-Alwaki is a scumbag, and he probably does deserve to die - AFTER A TRIAL has found him guilty! Regardless of what the man has been accused of, as an AMERICAN CITIZEN he has the right to be tried by a jury; especially when the sentence is death.

When the Chief Executive takes away our right to due process, he is a TYRANT. We live in a Fascist state now people. Get used to it, or do something about it.




"Get used to it or do something about it" is the best thing I've read in this thread so far.

Folks are posting their outrage but not one mentions writing a letter, making a phone call, not a damn thing.

No need for anyone to point fingers at the 'sheep who are asleep' because it looks the wide-awake are content to grumble and...that's all.

The clowns of Washington DC only have the power we let them have. I've signed petitions and sent letters for other things I was opposed to but I'll admit I have no clue who to write to about this matter.

Please, someone in the know, give us some names & addresses of those in DC we can write to. Tell others you know what has happened and ask them to write a letter too. A few million angry postcards takes up a lot of space and calls attention to itself. We have to call them out, and they have to respond.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by Kali74
 



Originally posted by GovtFlu
reply to post by Kali74
 


No rights being denied?.. how about the "right" to be freed by a jury / due process?

"Sec. 2. Standard for Continued Detention. Continued law of war detention is warranted for a detainee subject to the periodic review in section 3 of this order if it is necessary to protect against a significant threat to the security of the United States."

Some govt clowns "periodic review" can nullify a "not guilty" verdict as long as said clowns decide the acquitted represents "a significant threat to the security of the United States."


Answered before I did.... way before I did but it is plainly put.... You can extend this to AM citizens.... the protection by law bs is overruled by the procedural committee and or review process cant put any simpler...



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:31 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by GovtFlu
"Sec. 2. Standard for Continued Detention. Continued law of war detention is warranted for a detainee subject to the periodic review in section 3 of this order if it is necessary to protect against a significant threat to the security of the United States."


And who are the detainees subject to the periodic review in section 3?

I think you're going to have to look awfully hard, and make some sweeping assumptions, to even come close to finding anything that says anyone can be held indefinitely after a not guilty determination. I'm sure open to having it pointed out to me.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
Beside the obvious immediate effect on "Terrorists", President Obama's action shows a change in the fundamental philosophy of our government. We were founded on the checks and balances system because the founders knew that no one person or group of persons could be trusted with total or near total power.

If the President is not constrained by Congress and is able to ignore the Constitution, then he is a King in effect.

Besides, I happen to believe that every person needs some kind of control on their actions. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." leads to a rotted soul. (No, I'm not trying to switch this to religion, simply observing that people need limits.)


He was already a King if people take his signature as law. If congress dont' want him to have that much power, they don't have to let him. If the GITMO workers don't want him to have that much power, they won't obey him. If federal agents don't want him to have that much power, they don't obey him.

But if they all do obey him.... he was King a long time ago.





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