No Western Govt Has Ever Claimed The power To Do This! The King Of England! Not Hitler! Not Stalin!

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Misoir

 

This has to be worse than any other act this President or his predecessor has ever done. The Patriot Act seems like a Civil libertarian dream over this. What kind of country will we live in when our President has the final say in every important court case? He takes the side he wants and that side wins.

Make no mistakes about it, the Patriot Act paved the way for this decision, and "Civil Libertarians" paved the way for the Patriot Act. Civil liberties are "rights" granted people by government, and what can be legally granted by government can be legally taken away by government. As long as people keep insisting on framing rights as "civil liberties", "civil rights", "legal rights" or even "Constitutional rights" those who cast a longing eye on political offices will recognize the language and take full advantage of it.

Even when people are vigilante and ever watchful over their own freedom, it is a difficult task, but when we get lazy and speak the language of a culture taught to those who too readily acquiesce, how can we tell the difference between them and us?

No. The attacks of 9/11 paved the way for the Patriot Act.

Pointing the finger at civil libertarians for this? If people in the past worked to ensure that laws comply with the Constitution, I don't see how this could lead to such blatantly anticonstitutional policy. Nonsense.

Please explain us more CLEARLY and coherently how the civil libertarians influenced the illegitimate Bush administration into passing these laws, since I don't see much meaning in what you wrote.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Misoir

 

This has to be worse than any other act this President or his predecessor has ever done. The Patriot Act seems like a Civil libertarian dream over this. What kind of country will we live in when our President has the final say in every important court case? He takes the side he wants and that side wins.

Make no mistakes about it, the Patriot Act paved the way for this decision, and "Civil Libertarians" paved the way for the Patriot Act. Civil liberties are "rights" granted people by government, and what can be legally granted by government can be legally taken away by government. As long as people keep insisting on framing rights as "civil liberties", "civil rights", "legal rights" or even "Constitutional rights" those who cast a longing eye on political offices will recognize the language and take full advantage of it.

Even when people are vigilante and ever watchful over their own freedom, it is a difficult task, but when we get lazy and speak the language of a culture taught to those who too readily acquiesce, how can we tell the difference between them and us?

Civil Libertarians paved the way for the Patriot Act??? You have it completely backwards, and are using a form of doublespeak. Civil liberties are what we have until governments and other institutions take them away from us. They are not granted to us, but stolen from us. They are completely innate to the human paradigm.

Considering that the Patriot Act, which by the way was misnamed, presented to the public as an antiterrorism measure, actually focuses on American citizens rather than foreign terrorists. The ability to expand the definition of " terrorism " has opened the door for the implemented executive order, to now be judge and jury.

This * snip * is just getting crazy!

This is bad..

But, i dont know who told you no western government has ever done this. Hitlers Germany did this aplenty. So did Stalin - even worse than Hitler. Only difference between here and there is that they wouldnt "acquit" you, and than claim they can still hold you. Whereas in communist russia or china or Nazi Germany, or Fascist Italy you would get a kanagaroo trial that pins on you the most egregiously outrageous things. The injustice is the same. Albeit, the former considers you innocent. But atill on terms of scale, no government was as evil and pernicious as the Nazis and Commies in Russia (and im sure China can equal that today).

not sure who mentioned it (one of our brothers on the other side of the pond) but who has authority over D.C. is there not a sheriff or someone that can start bringing to light and possibly arresting people creating unlawful laws, if the public can get behind someone that can actually do something, this will be our best bet

the tools and laws are already in place to stop this, we just need someone with the power to step up to the plate

how do you prosecute someone when the entire system to do so is compromised by criminals that refuse to acknowledge they are creating/pushing unlawful laws

Originally posted by HenryPatrick
this is freaking terrifying...american citizens are definitely next...its getting pretty close to fleeing time...bet you dont see this on the daily show

Why would you assume that innocent American citizens are not already being detained indefinitely?

The time to be terrified came and passed years ago.

Apathy is the greatest enabler of corruption in the USA... Probably better that the majority of Americans remain apathetic and oblivious for as long as possible now.

Go back to sleep.

I put up a thread on this subject yesterday, with constitutional lawyer Glenn Greenwald weighing in on it, as well as Napolitano's vid clip:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But Napolitano's clip NEEDED its own thread imho, to drive the point home, to JUST HOW DANGEROUS THIS IS.

As he says, if Obama can usurp the constitution and judicial powers over THERE, what is to stop him from doing it HERE?

This is complete and utter BS, and a subject that EVERYONE better be paying attention to.

These people are destroying what little is left of this barely breathing nation and all that it supposedly stood for.

Obushma has just one-upped the titanically criminalistic GWB.

Disgusting beyond words...

reply to post by morder1


Uggh.. How can justice thats served in secret be justice?

Like my wife says, Obama is the anti-christ.

Change YOU can believe in...right?

Most disgusting President ever.

The Constitution was designed to create the illusion of freedom. In actuality, it keeps us Americans trapped and dependent on it for survival. The Government was designed to support the people. In reality, it ignores our concerns and keeps us in check. Obama's order is the equivalent of checkmate.

reply to post by morder1
With this further burying og nthe Constitution, it is becoming clear that a peaceful resolution to our problems is rapidly slipping away. Best to be prepared for that.

My condolences go out to my liberal friends who had hoped for change from a new administration after the monumentally bogus rule of George the Lesser. At least you had hope unlike my conservative friends who never gave Obama the Trickster a chance.

My hope goes out to both, that they can kiss and make up and understand how we are all being had. Nah that ain't gonna happen. Carry on folks

reply to post by TerryMcGuire

At least you had hope unlike my conservative friends who never gave Obama the Trickster a chance.

Didn't give him a chance because we already knew, ( including those like myself who are independent/libertarian ) because unlike your liberal friends, we actually do have common sense. He's an empty suit, always has been, his votes in the Senate...." present ", prove that.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
Like my wife says, Obama is the anti-christ.

Change YOU can believe in...right?

Most disgusting President ever.

Almost, Wilson takes the cake for that one.

Here is the White House link to the EO Executive Order - Periodic Review of Individuals Detained at Guantanamo....

I slowly "skimmed" it and honestly can't find the nefarious part that gives Obama this power. Could someone with more expertise (or brain power) please point out the section(s)? From what I read it looks like this is limited only to detainees that were at Gitmo and fell under EO 13492. Is that correct? I understand that this could potentially lead to an overall general implementation (regardless of what it says) but I just can't find the actual language in the Order.

I am in NO way suggesting there is nothing wrong here, I just want to be clear of the argument before I step into it with someone or post it on FB

Thanks!

I suggest that everyone opposed to this write a letter to there local congressman opposing this law. Those prisoners are people too, and they have the right to there lives especially if they have been acquitted. Last I checked former President Bush had been indicted for crimes against humanity in regards to Guatanimo Bay. If they get away with this then honestly the only people to blame is the American people for not speaking out against it. I for one will be addressing my opposition to this in a letter to my congressman.

It was never the intent of the Founding Fathers nor mentioned in the Federalist Papers the right of foreigners to constitutional rights and especially not prisoners of war! The judge is harming the constitutional movement by using the constitution as an excuse for his anti-war stance.

I am anti-war. It's not about the constitution of the US beyond the need for Congressional declaration of war which can be argued was not secured by Bush. But this invented right of prisoners or war having US citizen constitutional rights is pure rubbish and is what liberals always do in creating a "living constitution" to fit their political cause. Shame on you Judge!

I thought Obama was going to close Guanantamo??

I did see Rumsfeld applaud The president's recent action towards Guantanamo on Piers Morgan last night.

America is getting what she voted for...

Change was promised, here it is....



I realized where my numbers have been wrong and between ATS and my gf it dawned on me...

There was a paper on asymmetric warfare... it covered something called handicaps

Found it....

www2.cs.uidaho.edu...

The economy is sinking and yet the people as a whole have not changed their patterns.. it dawned on me as I sipped my sweet tea (not peach or any of that other northern or cali crapola) These people dont care ...

the ones around me were upper middle class...

it then dawned on.. this paper from here explains what numbers the government is working on.... they know that unless the handicap becomes appreciable to these people.... that they can get away with murder....(TPTB)

for those who will be suffering... you do not matter to them at all... heres why....

any attempt to do anything is being watched or corrupted (ex- tea party).... No rebellion here will occur because they have your number before you get it...

I now truly believe those FEMA camps are made with our names on them... two choices....

Become one of the elite or prepare for the fema camps

Well I have no choice but to become number one...

Raises his drink...

"To me... Da Man..."




Unless of course, the impossible happens...

A good person mugs the powers that be... Steals the election and fixes everything... The odds of that miracle is so low I laugh....

To the New Republic.....

I am so happy to wake up and see this thread on the front page. Im going back to bed