Should man rely on himself or God?

Should man rely on himself or God?

I do not agree at all with the premise in this link and think that any God would prefer to create a self reliant autonomous people that he could released and set free. We are not to be a make work project for God.

The link also says that we are to walk, dwell, govern, and create with God. It also says that we are given a choice to rely on God or on ourselves yet the moment A & E relied on their own judgment, God came down on them harder than any parent would ever dream of. Not just A & E were made to suffer but all of us with original sin and we were consigned to a cursed earth. Quite the free choice.

www.youtube.com...

If on earth as it is in heaven is to have any kind of meaning for us, then to apply God’s standards of children having to rely forever on parental leadership is counter to what any good man would want for his children.

If at some point in time, my children did not take responsibility for their own actions, then I would say that I am a failure as a parent. All children must be allowed to grow up to adulthood.

I see God giving man dominion just exactly for this reason.

Should mankind then eventually allow God to move on, or should we force him to be our baby sitter forever?

Regards
DL

To answer your question quick..There is no god in the terms you speak of..Fear is the only god that exists..,and oh what a powerful god he is.. So man should rely on himself and his fellow brothers, and sisters..As we are all products of mother earth.. Nothing more, Nothing less.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Should man rely on himself or God?

I do not agree at all with the premise in this link and think that any God would prefer to create a self reliant autonomous people that he could released and set free. We are not to be a make work project for God.

The link also says that we are to walk, dwell, govern, and create with God. It also says that we are given a choice to rely on God or on ourselves yet the moment A & E relied on their own judgment, God came down on them harder than any parent would ever dream of. Not just A & E were made to suffer but all of us with original sin and we were consigned to a cursed earth. Quite the free choice.

www.youtube.com...

If on earth as it is in heaven is to have any kind of meaning for us, then to apply God’s standards of children having to rely forever on parental leadership is counter to what any good man would want for his children.

If at some point in time, my children did not take responsibility for their own actions, then I would say that I am a failure as a parent. All children must be allowed to grow up to adulthood.

I see God giving man dominion just exactly for this reason.

Should mankind then eventually allow God to move on, or should we force him to be our baby sitter forever?

Regards
DL

lol...nice

God is not your "babysitter" so to speak....

Karma is your babysitter....if you need such an analogy.

...which is a creation of God...like everything else.

When I relied on god to rule my life, it was out of control. I prayed for power to stop drinking, which never came. I prayed for power to be free from drugs - yet borderline OD's several times. I prayed for a good job, yet remained broke. Nothing happened. I got worse. How could I have faith in something that gave me no reason at all to put any in?
When I kicked god to the curb, I found a power in myself. Not only did I quit drinking, drugs, and cigarettes - I became my own boss and make now hundreds of $$$ daily without exerting myself, or even leaving home for that matter. A godless, church-free life devoid of religion has brought much peace and joy into my life and the life of my family.
Whether or not this would work for anyone else is anyone's guess. It worked for me. Nearly thirty years suffering in christianity and drug-riddled poverty until I realized that the only person that could help me was myself - not some god - not ANY god.

Your question is an easy one: obviously, man should rely on himself.
God is completely unreliable - it is symptomatic of being nonexistent.
If man could just rid himself of the notion that there is some higher power, some real progress could be made.


ganjoa

reply to post by Greatest I am


I've never depended on a God. But I've been really fracking lucky sometimes. I think God is an absent-minded scientist.

The Christians will always answer that you should rely on God. Atheists will say to rely on themselves. Agnostics will do whatever feels good for the day.

But one thing that has always confused me, is when Christians say to rely on God while at the same time, the Bible states that God only helps those that help themselves.

Oh well, I guess we are only mere mortals and are not meant to understand these things.

Swell!

reply to post by Greatest I am


You ask interesting questions. I will attempt to give my answers and that is all they are. I am a father and I know what I want to see from my children. I want to see them grow up and make better choices, while they are young and immature they make very bad decisions and pay many penalties. I am not to blame for their bad choices or the consequences. If I prevent them from making their choices, they do not learn, that is true slavery.

If you believe there is a God then he is not a babysitter, he is a father and wants to see his kids grow up so that they can have a mature relationship with him. We have not grown up yet, we are at best teenagers who think we know better and we don't. Look at the world around you and tell me we know what is best and do it. Charlie Sheen is a good example of the spoiled brats that we are, not the adults we can be.

So many posts on this site talk about how there is no God because we did not get spoiled enough, what utter nonsense. Being spoiled does not lead to growth. We want it all and we want it now and we don't want to have to go to school and learn and deserve it. The problem is us, not God and our way will not work. Adam and Eve were not punished, they were not killed, they were set free to try their way. How else could they learn right from wrong?

What do you get when you mix:

An Agnostic, A Dyslexic, And an Insomniac?

Someone who sits up all night wondering if there is really a dog.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Should man rely on himself or God?

I do not agree at all with the premise in this link and think that any God would prefer to create a self reliant autonomous people that he could released and set free. We are not to be a make work project for God.

The link also says that we are to walk, dwell, govern, and create with God. It also says that we are given a choice to rely on God or on ourselves yet the moment A & E relied on their own judgment, God came down on them harder than any parent would ever dream of. Not just A & E were made to suffer but all of us with original sin and we were consigned to a cursed earth. Quite the free choice.

www.youtube.com...

If on earth as it is in heaven is to have any kind of meaning for us, then to apply God’s standards of children having to rely forever on parental leadership is counter to what any good man would want for his children.

If at some point in time, my children did not take responsibility for their own actions, then I would say that I am a failure as a parent. All children must be allowed to grow up to adulthood.

I see God giving man dominion just exactly for this reason.

Should mankind then eventually allow God to move on, or should we force him to be our baby sitter forever?

Regards
DL

To begin with we must answer the question " Is there a god"?
Until that question is resolved we cannot answer.

But for someone who does not believe in god - then he/she is responsible for his/her actions.
Then we have situations where a believer says "god made me do it"! which infers that his/her actions are controlled by god and offers that as an excuse or defence, completely abrogating his/her self responsibility. How often do we see that.

Then there are the cases where criminals, because of their own actions are in jail, who then "find god", ususally in the hope that parole boards etc. will look more favourably upon them at some future date.

The abrogation of self responsibility and place that on a god, who may or may not exist, is usually done for purely selfish reasons.

If god exists then he gave is the power to be responsible for our own actions, we cannot blame him.
If god does not exist then we are solely responsible for our actions, we cannot blame anybody else.

So that answers the question anyway.

I think man should rely on God. Mans track record is not so good

reply to post by Akragon


Give any kind of proof at all for your statement that God is a creator. Other than hear say.

Scripture says that God creates all things perfect.

Do you see perfection or evolving perfection all about including yourself?
I do. Most do not but that is the only possible available proof as far as I can tell for a potential creator.

Regards
DL

reply to post by sykickvision


Congratulations for becoming sane.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by jude11
The Christians will always answer that you should rely on God. Atheists will say to rely on themselves. Agnostics will do whatever feels good for the day.

But one thing that has always confused me, is when Christians say to rely on God while at the same time, the Bible states that God only helps those that help themselves.

Oh well, I guess we are only mere mortals and are not meant to understand these things.

Swell!

edit on 8-3-2011 by jude11 because: Typo

Most understand. It is just that theists do not want to grow up.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

You ask interesting questions. I will attempt to give my answers and that is all they are. I am a father and I know what I want to see from my children. I want to see them grow up and make better choices, while they are young and immature they make very bad decisions and pay many penalties. I am not to blame for their bad choices or the consequences. If I prevent them from making their choices, they do not learn, that is true slavery.

If you believe there is a God then he is not a babysitter, he is a father and wants to see his kids grow up so that they can have a mature relationship with him. We have not grown up yet, we are at best teenagers who think we know better and we don't. Look at the world around you and tell me we know what is best and do it. Charlie Sheen is a good example of the spoiled brats that we are, not the adults we can be.

So many posts on this site talk about how there is no God because we did not get spoiled enough, what utter nonsense. Being spoiled does not lead to growth. We want it all and we want it now and we don't want to have to go to school and learn and deserve it. The problem is us, not God and our way will not work. Adam and Eve were not punished, they were not killed, they were set free to try their way. How else could they learn right from wrong?

Are you saying they did not know right from wrong and God punished them anyway?

That is not a moral thing to do. Even human courts say that without evil intent, there is no crime and no punishment should be given.

Is man more responsible and just than God?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
reply to post by Akragon

 

Give any kind of proof at all for your statement that God is a creator. Other than hear say.

Scripture says that God creates all things perfect.

Do you see perfection or evolving perfection all about including yourself?
I do. Most do not but that is the only possible available proof as far as I can tell for a potential creator.

Regards
DL

I do see perfection in everything.......how can you not?

Just look around this beautiful world of ours...can't you see perfection in every flower, every creature that walks or crawls or swims? Im not even going to get into the perfection of our solarsystem.

To some like myself its obvious

Originally posted by Theophorus
I think man should rely on God. Mans track record is not so good

And God's is better?

Screwed up heaven with Satan.
Screwed up Eden with A & E's fall.
Screwed up in Noah's day and had to genocide our ass.
Plans on returning at end time to do it again.
Yep. A real good record. Not.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


I once heard a beautiful proverb: Rely on yourself to make everything possible, and leave to god the impossible.

reply to post by Greatest I am


Thank God for his freedom, thank God for life, and everything, but otherwise rely on himself and his own resources to create something worthy of himself, and of God.

"Trust in God but tie your camel first."

reply to post by Greatest I am



God created us with free will, yes, but if we choose to use that free will to engage in pointless pursuits of material sensory gratification we will end up on a dark planet full of other dark people who have equally rebelled.

God is One, and we are part and parcel of Him..

Historically, within Hinduism there are two conflicting philosophies regarding the relationship between living beings (Jiva or Atma) and God (Ishvara, Brahman or Bhagavan). Advaita schools assert the monistic view that the individual soul and God are one and the same[7], whereas Dvaita schools give the dualistic argument that the individual soul and God are eternally separate[8]. The philosophy of Achintya-bheda-abheda includes elements of both viewpoints. The living soul is intrinsically linked with the Supreme Lord, and yet at the same time is not the same as God - the exact nature of this relationship being inconceivable to the human mind.

Yet, the highest self-realized sages, they desire nothing other then to serve God in love and reciprocation of a relationship of transcendental beauty.

BG 6.45: And when the yogī engages himself with sincere endeavor in making further progress, being washed of all contaminations, then ultimately, achieving perfection after many, many births of practice, he attains the supreme goal.

BG 6.46: A yogī is greater than the ascetic, greater than the empiricist and greater than the fruitive worker. Therefore, O Arjuna, in all circumstances, be a yogī.

BG 6.47: And of all yogīs, the one with great faith who always abides in Me, thinks of Me within himself, and renders transcendental loving service to Me — he is the most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all. That is My opinion.

vedabase.net...

The highest service to Him is to ecstatically spread His Divine name through Sankirtana:


This loving reciprocation creates Rasa in our Soul, Transcendental Spiritual mellows of a type of Love and Bliss that goes beyond words. That is the height of being and the constitutional position of the soul in immortality.