Do you believe any of the stories that Religions teach?

Hello everyone. I will keep this thread short and simple since im sure there is more at stake for those who believe some if not all the stories that the bible, koran etc. teach. Do you believe that any of the events that took place in these religions actually existed? If you were given proof no matter how undebunkable it was, would you still believe it?

I would like to hear some replies and please keep it civil. Can you back up any of the stories from your religion if someone believes it is false?

One example I will give.

Noahs ark. Did it really happen?

Originally posted by Stop-loss!
Hello everyone. I will keep this thread short and simple since im sure there is more at stake for those who believe some if not all the stories that the bible, koran etc. teach. Do you believe that any of the events that took place in these religions actually existed? If you were given proof no matter how undebunkable it was, would you still believe it?

I would like to hear some replies and please keep it civil. Can you back up any of the stories from your religion if someone believes it is false?

One example I will give.

Noahs ark. Did it really happen?

edit on 24-2-2011 by Stop-loss! because: (no reason given)

Yes I believe the testament of Christ as told in the Bible by his disciples.

I believe it is true even if it is debunked as never happening in History. There is a deeper truth to the story. It would be true if Mickey Mouse wrote it.

I have backed it up in numerous threads on this forum.

I have demonstrated it true through a final warning which was given in September of last year. Look at the current world events today to see it unfold.

Final Warning

Check it out, and watch!

With Love,

Your Brother

the ones that can be traced back to/or mirror ancient Egyptian account yes. such as the flood, Horus, etc. that's the real history.

I'm with IAMIAM... I believe in Christ.

As far as Noah's ark and similar fantastical stories go... I understand that they are just stories meant to impart wisdom and insight. To read the Bible (or ANY spiritual scripture, for that matter) as a technical manual or a history textbook would be completely missing the point.

reply to post by Stop-loss!


Yes to all the stories in the Bible and none are false.

And especially yes to Noah's ark.

II Peter 3:

[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

They still believed it when this was written and there are several hundred flood stories that account 8 people
www.nwcreation.net...

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38


Yes to all the stories in the Bible and none are false.

And especially yes to Noah's ark.

II Peter 3:

[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

They still believed it when this was written and there are several hundred flood stories that account 8 people
www.nwcreation.net...

...quoting a book to defend its material to be truth without question...

Open some REAL books throughout history and discover that your book is simply a rehash of earlier stories.

...or keep going in the vicious (asinine) circle of defending a fictional book using its own nonsense to support it.

The story of "Noah" is simply a COPY of the Epic of Gilgamesh.

And I thought folks of this faith only believed in the original and genuine characters and stories, and were against impostors and copies!!!



Geez.

I believe David slew the giant Goliath.

I believe Jesus rescued Mary Magdalene from public execution and saying to the crowd "Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone".

Or of Pilate releasing Barrabas thus condemning Jesus and then "washing his hands" of the whole thing.

I pretty much believe everything in the bible. There are many stories, including ones taught by Jesus that are parables...ya know fictions to illustrate a point. I don't believe those of course, but believe they were told.

Jesus' golden rule...do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That's the big main point Jesus tried to get people to understand, and it got him the cross. It's the biggest main point that is overlooked by Christian religions too. Too much they are focussed on Salvation and Repentance and not enough of "Be excellent to one another".


edit: sorry julius

reply to post by Stop-loss!


I do not believe that a god placed two people on earth to produce the many different races we have today, commit genocide on them all because they are "not worthy" (even though technically he should have know that because he is omnipitent and all) and then have that family reproduce the world again.
That is impossible. Period.
-The amount of meat necessary to sustain life for the many different species of carnivores for that many months is laughably insane, and if any animal was eaten or accidently dies, there goes the whole damn species.
- Where are they gonna poop?
- The family has to breed with themselves to form all the cultures of the world, all over again.
- The altitude the boat would have to be at to be able to be above every piece of land (like the bible says) would make the oxygen levels unsustainable for most of the animals, including the family. Not to mention how cold everything would be at that elevation, and also the complet wipeout of all marine life for the due to the mixtures of fresh water and sea water on these very sensitive ecosystems, and the list literally goes on and on.
I have to agree with you my friend, its probably not true, and it is probably about time most people start thinking the same thing (My opinion guys, dont chastise me)
Peace and Light

The stories are obviously fake. The intentions and meaning however are invaluable.

reply to post by Stop-loss!


I believe that Jesus existed- there is no way that Christianity could have started were it not for a Christ figure, and it is well known that there were early Christians running around in the decades after Christ.

I think that the stories in the bibles do have truth, but are most certainly changed and/or embellished in certain ways to push forward certain agendas.

If someone showed me irrefutable proof that a story in the bible never happened, obviously I wouldn't believe that the literal event happened.

The point you fail to make however, is that the point of the bible is not to be a literal interpretation of history- it is meant to be an inspiration to living a meaningful life supported by a strong relationship to God.

Christians reading the story of Noah's ark aren't interested in learning about how Noah did it, or whether or not it actually happened- they are interested in learning about Noah's relationship with God, and how his faith empowered him in his endeavors and life.

reply to post by IAMIAM


To IAMIAM.. I completely respect your position, as I was close to that line of thinking at one time. I am curious, if you have time, to get your take on the following video I've posted a couple times (below) around this forum... Thanks...

I think their is a bit of truth in every story. I know people exaggerate and are delusional a lot.

Thank you everyone for the replies. I feel like I learned a lot today about the past more then ever. Although I have failed to be specific in this thread, I still got most of the replies that I have been looking for so far.

reply to post by Stop-loss!

Noahs ark. Did it really happen?

Well there have been a lot of speculation. I have done a quick search and i found this article here. Hope that helps you a bit.

A Universal Flood : 3000 BC by Dr. David Livingston

Review and Conclusion: Reasons for A Universal Flood

River deltas suggest a recent (ca. 3000 BC?) flood.

Families of mankind began then. Geneologies date back to it. Long gaps repudiate geneologies.

If as some scholars maintain, that mankind has been around for over a million years during the "stone ages," surely the entire globe was inhabited with humans by the time of Noah's Flood. For comparison, consider the mass of humanity that have come about in only 5000 years. Beginning with eight people, and in spite of wars, famine, and plagues mankind has grown in numbers to the present six billion souls. Therefore, if the globe was filled with humans (whatever the land mass was at that time) it was imperative, to accomplish God's purpose, that the flood be universal in the truest sense of that word.

Considering the biblical narrative, which says that the flood was universal, the words "all" and "every" are used 16 times in Genesis 6-9 to describe the totality of the flood.

The biblical account did not derive from other literature. It is eye-witness testimony. The Gilgamesh Epic (and other epics) fit well into a 3000 BC date. "Flood traditions" even though not as accurate as the Bible, all say the ark came to rest on a mountain. That would be impossible with a local flood. The Ark would simply float out into the ocean and would still be there today!

All written history begins ca. 3000 BC. If, as some scholars claim, the Flood occurred as early as 100,000, or as late as 10,000 BC (instead of 3000 BC), then why has no one discovered anything indicating a 7000 year (or larger) gap in Scripture, nor in any of the other literature of the Ancient Near East?

Cush was the grandson of Noah. The descendants of "Cush" built cities in Mesopotamia whose foundations date no earlier than 3000 BC (Genesis 10). Cities that are said to be older: Jericho (7000 BC), Jarmo (6000 BC), etc., were dated by C14 which cannot be calibrated by known dates any time earlier than 5000 years before the present. As Libby said, more caution should be used when considering these early dates.

70% of the earth is presently covered with water in sufficient quantity to cover the entire (flattened out) earth to a depth of about 7,500 feet. Present mountain ranges are mostly sedimentary rocks attributable to flooding, or volcanism. They could have been formed during the Flood, or finished rising just after it. Thus we can conclude that the biblical story is, indeed, quite reasonable as it is.

Peace

Much like all mythology, there is a smattering of reality slathered over with an unhealthy amount of speculation, embellishment and misrepresentation.

reply to post by Stop-loss!



Yes, some, there is some truth mixed with myth,

Originally posted by rstregooski
[To IAMIAM.. I completely respect your position, as I was close to that line of thinking at one time. I am curious, if you have time, to get your take on the following video I've posted a couple times (below) around this forum... Thanks...

Well my friend, in my younger years, I was a part of the "They are all the same Sun God" bandwagon. This is because I bought into the miconceptions of others and the intentionally misleading traditions of the Catholic Church.

One day I decided to sit down and actually read what Christ was all about. I was amazed. He never says how he was born, you would think he would but he didn't. He never says how he grew up. Christ comes on the scene at a time when the people were oppressed by the Romans on one side, and the Priesthood of various cults on the other. He comes in as a revolutionary Rabbi and immediately starts a peaceful revolution against the powers that be.

His first sermon, The Sermon on the Mount, was a direct attack at the Priestclass and government. He starts telling people a different doctrine than what both have been teaching.

Read this direct confrontation with the Priests of the Temple:

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

This is as rebellious as it gets my friend. Imagine someone standing in the public square today and saying something like this:

You have heard it said that if a Man fornicates with a Man, then he will surely be condemned to hell. But, I say to you that a Man who does not love his fellow Man will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I say again, Love one another.

You have heard it said that if a Man commits an evil, they must come before the church and confess their sins or they shall be condemned to hell. But, I say unto you, if a Man does an evil he should confess it to his Brother who he has harmed, and that Brother should forgive him. I say again, forgive one another, or do not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

You have heard it said that a Man must bow before Christ and accept him as your savior, or you will be condemned to hell. But, I say to you that you should see Christ in your fellow man, and reach out to them when you need to be saved, and he being reached out to should be as Christ, and do they Brothers bidding. I say again, Love one another, even as Christ Loved you.


I mean, could you imagine the balls someone would have to have to say such things? Can you imagine how the powers that be would react?

How about if it was taken a step further:

What should we do about all these damn taxes the government keeps taking from us?

Give the government back all the worthless crap it has given you. Give them back there worthless paper. Give them back the money. Give them back the paper which your laws are written on. Give them back the paper which says they own your house. Give them back the authority over your lives.

Give to God, the divine spirit within all man, that which belongs to God, your love, devotion, and mutual aid and assistance in this world. Stand up and be Kings and Queens working together in the Kingdom of God.

Yeah, someone who would say such things, just might be labeled a heretic, nailed to a cross, and distorted in the history books.

Sun God? NO. Son of God? YES. And, if you believe Christ was, he believed you were too. If you believe I am, I believe you are too. If you stand with me, I will stand with you. If you love as Christ did, the world will love you too.

Well, not TPTB.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by pplrnuts
The story of "Noah" is simply a COPY of the Epic of Gilgamesh.

It sure looks that way.

I'm sure there have been floods for many years, and probably some real big floods.

But the Noah's ark story doesn't make a lot of sense to me. One obvious problem is that a guy built a half-scale model of it and if he had done it out of just wood, it would have collapsed under its own weight:

Johan's Ark

Johan's Ark or Ark van Johan is a reconstruction of Noah's Ark built by Dutch creationist Johan Huibers.

Huibers states that he followed details given in Genesis during construction of the Ark. Some deviations have been necessary such as building the Ark out of American Cedar and Pine over a steel hull (otherwise it would collapse under its own weight) rather than the enigmatic gopher wood specified in the Bible.

Apparently, he's now building a full-sized replica of Noah's Ark, but I don't know if he finished it yet.

But as this author points out, other parts of the story don't make much sense:

Noah's Ark

Genesis 8:1 begins by telling us that Noah and his family have been drifting about aimlessly at sea for 6 months when God remembers that they are still drifting about aimlessly at sea. Seriously, it says that. (and you thought it sucked when you're mom was 45 minutes late to pick you up from soccer practice!) Suddenly collected of His cosmic wits, the Almighty unstops the drains of the deep, and sends a wind to...um...well, it doesn't say what function the wind was supposed to serve. But, hey! there's some wind. Yey! On the 17th day of the 7th month, after 3 months of drainage, the Ark finds itself wedged onto the side of Mt. Ararat, which is on the border of modern Turkey, Armenia, and Iran. On the 1st day of the 10th month, the tops of the mountains become visible. Hmmm..... If the Ark is stuck on a mountain, and the waters are receding several dozen feet per day, how is it that takes 2 and a half months! after alighting on Ararat for the top of the mountain to become visible?

40 days after the mountain tops become "visible," Noah opens the window for the first time, and sends out a raven to scout for land. Anyone besides me catch 2 very odd issues in that last line? I'll humor you; here goes: (1) how did Noah, opening the window for the very first time, know that it had been 40 days since the mountain tops appeared? How would he have the faintest clue whether it had been 60 days or 12 minutes? I'm just sayin'. (2) If all the mountain tops are visible, and the boat is firmly lodges on a mountain, from which the waters have now receded several hundred feet, why is the raven flying all over the place and then returning to the boat? Wouldn't it just go perch itself on one of the mountains, possibly the one it was parked on? Next, Noah sends out a dove in search of land, but the dove returns because - as vs. 9 tells us - "it could find no place to set its feet because there was water all over the earth." Arghh!!! Somebody please shoot this writer! Perhaps it was a blind dove, and couldn't see all the mountain tops Noah magically deduced appeared some 40 days prior. "Psst! Hey dove, try Mt Ararat, you stupid bird!"

Noah waits 7 days before sending the dove out again. This time the dove returns with an olive leaf in her mouth. Strange, because olive leaves come from olive branches, which tend - more or less - to find themselves attached to olive trees, which have (1) all been recently destroyed; and (2) are typically found at altitudes so low that were one actually visible, Noah would be able to see full well the giant mountain range he had just crashed into. This story sucks. Seriously.

I'd have to agree, the story has issues. And that's just a small excerpt about issues at the end of the story.

I believe in the resurrection of Jesus as Messiah.