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Originally posted by Stop-loss!
Hello everyone. I will keep this thread short and simple since im sure there is more at stake for those who believe some if not all the stories that the bible, koran etc. teach. Do you believe that any of the events that took place in these religions actually existed? If you were given proof no matter how undebunkable it was, would you still believe it?
I would like to hear some replies and please keep it civil. Can you back up any of the stories from your religion if someone believes it is false?
One example I will give.
Noahs ark. Did it really happen?edit on 24-2-2011 by Stop-loss! because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
Yes to all the stories in the Bible and none are false.
And especially yes to Noah's ark.
II Peter 3:
 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
They still believed it when this was written and there are several hundred flood stories that account 8 people
Noahs ark. Did it really happen?
Review and Conclusion: Reasons for A Universal Flood
River deltas suggest a recent (ca. 3000 BC?) flood.
Families of mankind began then. Geneologies date back to it. Long gaps repudiate geneologies.
If as some scholars maintain, that mankind has been around for over a million years during the "stone ages," surely the entire globe was inhabited with humans by the time of Noah's Flood. For comparison, consider the mass of humanity that have come about in only 5000 years. Beginning with eight people, and in spite of wars, famine, and plagues mankind has grown in numbers to the present six billion souls. Therefore, if the globe was filled with humans (whatever the land mass was at that time) it was imperative, to accomplish God's purpose, that the flood be universal in the truest sense of that word.
Considering the biblical narrative, which says that the flood was universal, the words "all" and "every" are used 16 times in Genesis 6-9 to describe the totality of the flood.
The biblical account did not derive from other literature. It is eye-witness testimony. The Gilgamesh Epic (and other epics) fit well into a 3000 BC date. "Flood traditions" even though not as accurate as the Bible, all say the ark came to rest on a mountain. That would be impossible with a local flood. The Ark would simply float out into the ocean and would still be there today!
All written history begins ca. 3000 BC. If, as some scholars claim, the Flood occurred as early as 100,000, or as late as 10,000 BC (instead of 3000 BC), then why has no one discovered anything indicating a 7000 year (or larger) gap in Scripture, nor in any of the other literature of the Ancient Near East?
Cush was the grandson of Noah. The descendants of "Cush" built cities in Mesopotamia whose foundations date no earlier than 3000 BC (Genesis 10). Cities that are said to be older: Jericho (7000 BC), Jarmo (6000 BC), etc., were dated by C14 which cannot be calibrated by known dates any time earlier than 5000 years before the present. As Libby said, more caution should be used when considering these early dates.
70% of the earth is presently covered with water in sufficient quantity to cover the entire (flattened out) earth to a depth of about 7,500 feet. Present mountain ranges are mostly sedimentary rocks attributable to flooding, or volcanism. They could have been formed during the Flood, or finished rising just after it. Thus we can conclude that the biblical story is, indeed, quite reasonable as it is.
Originally posted by rstregooski
[To IAMIAM.. I completely respect your position, as I was close to that line of thinking at one time. I am curious, if you have time, to get your take on the following video I've posted a couple times (below) around this forum... Thanks...
20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
33Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
It sure looks that way.
Originally posted by pplrnuts
The story of "Noah" is simply a COPY of the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Apparently, he's now building a full-sized replica of Noah's Ark, but I don't know if he finished it yet.
Johan's Ark or Ark van Johan is a reconstruction of Noah's Ark built by Dutch creationist Johan Huibers.
Huibers states that he followed details given in Genesis during construction of the Ark. Some deviations have been necessary such as building the Ark out of American Cedar and Pine over a steel hull (otherwise it would collapse under its own weight) rather than the enigmatic gopher wood specified in the Bible.
I'd have to agree, the story has issues. And that's just a small excerpt about issues at the end of the story.
Genesis 8:1 begins by telling us that Noah and his family have been drifting about aimlessly at sea for 6 months when God remembers that they are still drifting about aimlessly at sea. Seriously, it says that. (and you thought it sucked when you're mom was 45 minutes late to pick you up from soccer practice!) Suddenly collected of His cosmic wits, the Almighty unstops the drains of the deep, and sends a wind to...um...well, it doesn't say what function the wind was supposed to serve. But, hey! there's some wind. Yey! On the 17th day of the 7th month, after 3 months of drainage, the Ark finds itself wedged onto the side of Mt. Ararat, which is on the border of modern Turkey, Armenia, and Iran. On the 1st day of the 10th month, the tops of the mountains become visible. Hmmm..... If the Ark is stuck on a mountain, and the waters are receding several dozen feet per day, how is it that takes 2 and a half months! after alighting on Ararat for the top of the mountain to become visible?
40 days after the mountain tops become "visible," Noah opens the window for the first time, and sends out a raven to scout for land. Anyone besides me catch 2 very odd issues in that last line? I'll humor you; here goes: (1) how did Noah, opening the window for the very first time, know that it had been 40 days since the mountain tops appeared? How would he have the faintest clue whether it had been 60 days or 12 minutes? I'm just sayin'. (2) If all the mountain tops are visible, and the boat is firmly lodges on a mountain, from which the waters have now receded several hundred feet, why is the raven flying all over the place and then returning to the boat? Wouldn't it just go perch itself on one of the mountains, possibly the one it was parked on? Next, Noah sends out a dove in search of land, but the dove returns because - as vs. 9 tells us - "it could find no place to set its feet because there was water all over the earth." Arghh!!! Somebody please shoot this writer! Perhaps it was a blind dove, and couldn't see all the mountain tops Noah magically deduced appeared some 40 days prior. "Psst! Hey dove, try Mt Ararat, you stupid bird!"
Noah waits 7 days before sending the dove out again. This time the dove returns with an olive leaf in her mouth. Strange, because olive leaves come from olive branches, which tend - more or less - to find themselves attached to olive trees, which have (1) all been recently destroyed; and (2) are typically found at altitudes so low that were one actually visible, Noah would be able to see full well the giant mountain range he had just crashed into. This story sucks. Seriously.