Iranian Naval Vessels Enter Suez Canal

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Oh yeah, you probe real deep. The depth of most arguments around here can be summed up likewise:


1. TPTB manipulate every aspect of your life so subtly, it takes a trained mind like mine to see through it
2. Every seemingly innocuous event is actually one small cog in TPTB’s plan for global domination
3. All evidence contrary to what I believe is fraudulent because it was produced by TPTB.
4. The Jews are somehow tied into all of it
5. Lather, rinse, repeat

Come on, get real. There are some interesting conversations around here, but if you believe more than 1 out of 20 posts you might be a prime candidate to purchase one share of the Brooklyn bridge that I am selling.

Originally posted by SirMike
Lets hope the Israeli's do the right thing and put these ships on the bottom of the Mediterranean.

I am very surprised so many people have starred your post. Actually, I am not. ATS has certainly not become a better place over the years. On the contrary, it has attracted many loonies and ignorant people.

It seems like none of you who starred his post realize what the consequences would be, should such an attack occur. Perhaps you should talk to those who fought in Iraq or World War II for that matter. War is an ugly thing and I have a hard time understanding how some of you seem horny for it to happen.

Before you start calling me pro-Iran, I'm not (but wait a second, how is that possible? You are either with Iran or with Israel on this forum). The world would be better off without the leadership of these two nations, both are seriously sick, so let's not turn this into a Pro-Iran/Israel thing.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Wow yea those automated persona bots do seem like a good cause for such a use. I mean msnbc.com is a very popular site for news and a lot of the top comments, they try to hid them.

Can you imagine that Software in the hands of the rabid Israeli Internet Defense Forces and the field day of disinformation and ad-hominen attacks they would use it for online?

Not to mention the big Military Contractors who have a huge financial vested interest in promoting war, war and more war?

Not to mention the Government itself who certainly can't unite the people on their failing performance on the economy, and other social issues who's best bet to stay a corrupt entrenched body is to distract us through war and fear?

I keep wondering when and if the American people are going to wake up to the dangers that abound within our own government and military.

Hopefully soon.

Thanks for posting.

reply to post by Mdv2


I would like to see war in the middle east! And? Bunch of un evolved cry babies.. If you don't like what Israel is doing, do something about it. If not ... shut up and be ruled.

Israel is evil.... Israel's Govt. is criminal... Every country around Israel wants it gone.. Whats the problem again?

Is someone under the delusion that Israel is going to have a change of heart and change foreign policy? Are Israel's neighbors just going to give in and be walked over by Israel? Neither of those is a viable option.. War - complete war, is the only way the middle east knows to change.

Originally posted by Mdv2
Perhaps you should talk to those who fought in Iraq or World War II for that matter. War is an ugly thing and I have a hard time understanding how some of you seem horny for it to happen.

Next time I'm in the bathroom, I'll be sure to say a few things to myelf in the mirror.

reply to post by ShaunHatfield


I could easily counter your arguments, but like I said, I don't want to turn this into the thread you would like to see it to evolve into. So I'm telling you in advance, I'll refrain from replying to such posts.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Despite its previous saber rattling the Israeli Government so far has not commented.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Its not even on their news main web pages:
www.israelnationalnews.com...

Shows that they know its nothing, and they really dont care about Iran, they want to make YOU think about Iran and make it look important.

It is some obscure link at the bottom.

edit on 22-2-2011 by THE_PROFESSIONAL because: (no reason given)

I disagree entirely. It is worrisome to me that it is being ignored. It is never the barking dog you need to worry about, it is the silent one. I have said all along that we don't need to worry until things get quiet, and now here we are!

I believe Israel will take action against these ships. There is too much turmoil and posturing in the area right now, they can't afford to be viewed as weak. With Egypt, Libya, Kuwait, Bahrain all having protests and upheaval, Israel is in extreme danger of having many enemies come into power all at once. I think they will make a strong statement here and hope the US and UK back them up to prevent all out war.

reply to post by SirMike

Come on, get real. There are some interesting conversations around here, but if you believe more than 1 out of 20 posts you might be a prime candidate to purchase one share of the Brooklyn bridge that I am selling.

You know mike, I fairly listen to and consider everything that everyone who posts has to say, but so far nothing you have attempted to sell in yours has any value or appeal.

You made some very provocative statements calling for War with no overt agressive act having been committed that could possibly justify it.

Intelligent people who know violence is never a solution are likely to reject that, and for good reason.

Violence doesn't solve differences is just forces at best an uneasy submission, with those being made to cower, typically resolving to throw of the yoke of violent domination in a cycle that only repeats itself.

The world has had nothing but war for thousands of years, and has yet to solve any of it's real problems through that, but sure has made a lot more problems through that than were there in the first place.

This is an idea so rooted in fact, that no, no amount of chest beating or posturing or peer pressure will ever defeat that.

What you don't know as you disparage the people on ATS in general is that the majority of them see your 1 in 20 posts as that of someone not rising to the real challenges of winning peace, and creating a prosperous world, but only some sad angry entreaty to hate, kill, and continue on with bankrupting and life robbing wars.

We know how this goes, the sensible posters will own the thread in the beginning until the next hot topic distracts them.

The pro-Israel, pro-War forum gang will own it in the middle, and the sensible posters will get the last word after that gang has stuck their foots in their mouth so deeply down their throats there is not one more thing they could possibly say to shock or concern people about their mental well being.

As usual since I posted the opening piece I will be along for the whole ride.

Thanks!

reply to post by getreadyalready


How would NOT attacking vessels that are travelling through international waters according to internation law lead any nation to consider Israel weak? If anything, an attack on these vessels with anything other than small arms fire or IDF's bare hands would show the Israelis are weak, cowardly and paranoid. These vessels are not a threat to any modern navy(probably barely a threat to commercial vessels for that matter).
Israel has no choice but to let the Iranians go about their business.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

I disagree entirely. It is worrisome to me that it is being ignored. It is never the barking dog you need to worry about, it is the silent one. I have said all along that we don't need to worry until things get quiet, and now here we are!

It wasn't ignored initially, there has been sufficient time to absolutely determine that these Iranian vessels pose no threat before they were 'allowed' passage through the Suez.

It is being ignored now, like grown ups ignoring a spoiled little brat.

I believe Israel will take action against these ships. There is too much turmoil and posturing in the area right now, they can't afford to be viewed as weak. With Egypt, Libya, Kuwait, Bahrain all having protests and upheaval, Israel is in extreme danger of having many enemies come into power all at once. I think they will make a strong statement here and hope the US and UK back them up to prevent all out war.

Israel will do nothing, except to monitor the movements of these vessels and the occupants.

If the Iranians intended to provoke the Israelis ... They have failed this time.

Iran will have to initiate hostilities, and if they do, Israel will then unleash all hell on Iran.

For now, business as usual, life goes on, NO worries.

reply to post by Mdv2


What could you honestly say? You wish for peace in the middle east? That would be like wishing illegal immigration would stop in Texas...

All they know is violence.. Every emotion leads to violence over there.. The Egyptian revolution was the first peaceful event in the middle east since the beginning.

Don't assume you know where I "want" the conversation to go. Of course I would prefer a peace treaty, followed by concerts and hugs.. Fortunately, I am not delusional. I can look past all of the failed attempts and see the future failed attempts at peace.

They will never agree on the land, apologies, trade and mostly religion. It is borderline a mental deficiency to believe that the middle east can achieve peace.

Unless a global disaster brings the world together, peace will NEVER be achieved in the middle east, without a catastrophic war! Even after a war, they will just need time to regroup and go back at it again.. History is on my side.

reply to post by PplVSNWO


Iran has already threatened to have a year long presence in Syria, so this is a test of Israel's resolve. Also, many weapons can be hidden on a frigate and supply ship, so Israel cannot assume the intentions are peaceful. Also, Israel already made strong statements against Iran taking this step, so they have to "save face" and follow through on their words.

Also, why would Iran pay $300k to put a basic supply ship through the canal? It would be far cheaper to fly the freight, so this is an obvious political statement.

I am not picking sides on who is right or wrong, but strategically, if I were Israel, I would counter this action very strongly, either by sinking or boarding the ships, or by placing ships of my own near Iran.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


Maybe you are right..... I hope so.

I think if nothing happens, it will embolden Iran, and Israel will eventually be forced to act, but perhaps they are playing it cool for now.

The absence of much news coverage in Israel still alarms me, you would think they would be communicating their lack of concern to their population.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The tone of your posts seems pretty one-sided, Proto.

If one didn't know better, from reading your posts you might think that the gov't of Iran was just a bunch of girl scouts while the Israeli gov't was just a bunch of thugs.

A little balance would be helpful.

Of course that was only an 'accident' but the truth is that the Iranian Navy is not the beligerent force that the U.S. and Israeli Navy is.

I don't know about that, but I do know that the Iranian Navy takes orders from the Iranian government. You know, the ones that have repeatedly called for the total annihilation of the state of Israel?

I am neither pro nor con Israel, but I can absolutely understand why they would become agitated at having warships from a country that have called for their destruction so very, very close to their country.

It's both the use of the Suez Canal and the proximity of it to Israel, and where it then places those ships after exit of the canal, that is the issue I believe.

No Iranian warship has been allowed to traverse the Suez in 30 years. This is a big deal regardless of who's side you sympathize with.

If war does erupt, the first thing that will be destroyed is the Suez. Remember the last time? Because of that, all nations that depend on it have a very strong vested interest in seeing that things that could provoke that are avoided if at all possible.

Just my $0.02...

BTW - love most of your threads. They're among the best on ATS. I always look forward to reading what you have to say.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Your observations seem spot and it seems the Israelis may be reformatting their strategic interests in the region with the culmination of this potential domino effect taking place? Just like the Israel, I am fairly certain the US is doing the same thing in response to the storm waging in the Middle East as well. It seems probable to consolidate forces in the event hostilities or other destabilizing acts take place as result of all this political upheaval.

Personally, I think it is a smart move for Israel to refrain from any public rhetoric or condemnation surrounding events taking place in their backyard at this time. With all of these windows of opportunities for Iran, it seems they are making the necessary moves to foster alliances with any regional powers willing to side with them. As the US presence in Iraq dwindles down as it seems it may, Iran is looking to fill the vacuum as a predominant regional power. Things are certainly heating up in the Middle East, and it seems the all the eggs are being put in one basket for another big assault on Israel? Thanks for the reply!

reply to post by getreadyalready


Oh my gosh people in the Middle East have weapons? Aren't only the Israelis supposed to have weapons?

When do we throw North Korea into the mix, I am sure they must have made the weapons???

I bet you that creep Hugo Chavez paid for them!

I bet right now in Syria they are sitting there with empty hands looking up at the ring of tanks and howitzers and surface to surface missiles pointing down at them from the top of the Golan Heights saying, soon, very soon, I will have a nice new AK-47 to charge up that hill, made by North Korea, shipped to me via Iran, and paid for by Hugo Chavez, now I just need a little something from the Mexican Drug Cartles to bolster my courage.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I am not picking sides on who is right or wrong, but strategically, if I were Israel, I would counter this action very strongly, either by sinking or boarding the ships, or by placing ships of my own near Iran.

Ah, but your are picking sides. By backing violation of international law to attack a vessel that itself is obeying international law, is definately choosing to side with the Zionists. What makes you think that Israel doesn't already have vessels near Iran, or even a nuclear sub inside of Iran's waters?
Just because something may be "strategic", does not make it legal, justifiable or right.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


wow... Spot on.. What you attempted to shovel off as fiction, could easily be the cold hard FACTS!

Oh, big bad Israel... Israel is the only one with real weapons?

I'll bet you 1 million dollars if I look through your posts, I would find a reference to the Lebanon war, with you pointing out that Israel didn't do so well. Wouldn't I? So Israel is the only one armed? Wow, spread propaganda much?

Israel does enough nasty things.... Nobody needs to exaggerate or straight up LIE about them.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I honestly don't know where I stand on the issue of Israel, so I can't take your bait on this one, but I do know that whatever Israel may be doing on the downlow, Iran is doing out in the open. They openly and consistently call for the destruction or total annihilation of Israel, and Israel is surrounded by enemies, so if they are paranoid, it is well deserved.

With the current situation in the Middle East, Israel should be even more paranoid than before. There is the potential to get an unfriendly Egyptian government, an unfriendly Libyan government, and a stricter Muslim controlled government in Bahrain and Kuwait which were both fairly westernized up to now.

Like them or hate them, you have to see why they would be quick to strike at this moment in time.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You made some very provocative statements calling for War with no overt agressive act having been committed that could possibly justify it.

You seem to be under the impression that because Iran isnt running bombing sorties over Tel-Aviv or because they don’t have a dozen infantry divisions pushing across the border that they are not at war with the Israelis. They have waged a generation long proxy war against Israel using surrogates like Hamas and Hezbollah to do what their armies have been historically unable to. I dont understand why your "dep thinking" cant see whats plain to see.