Yikes! The Uterus Police!

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
You blame yourself and wonder what happened or what you could have done differently. It is not something easy to deal with esp when you are so excited to be pregnant. I know I have been there. I am unable to have kids and it was nothing I did, my body has female issues and I can't sustain a pregnancy. It is very hard for me because I really want kids and I still can by adoption but I would like to have my own.

And?

Many miscarraiges occur because of neglect... it's a simple fact so I'm not sure what you're going on about your personal experience for.

Do you think pregnant women should be free to smoke, cause brain damage etc. etc. to their unborn?

edit on 22-2-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)

It is not due to neglect. I have endometriosis really bad and that caused mine. So it's my fault? That is why I brought up my experience. Also age can play a huge factor in miscarriages esp for women in their mid to late 30's. To say that a miscarriage is always due to neglect is just ignorant. Do you share your beliefs with people you know that have had one? I dare ya to..I'd love to see how they treat you.


Oh and my mom smoked during her entire pregnancy with my sister and I and we were just fine and healthy as can be. I never had any health problems as a child and still don't.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Burglary victims, assault victims, but rape accuser? Really? I have a few things I would like to say to you, but the T&Cs prohibit them. Please stay out of my thread. There are some levels of ignorance that cannot be denied.

When you call someone a victim it creates the impression (in a jury for one) that it's a forgone conclusion that the person was in fact victimized. In many cases it's appropriate to say victim because you do in fact know that they were victimized (someone who was stabbed to death for example).

With all of the false rape allegations that occur it's presumptive and prejudicial to refer to them as victims (when that has yet to be determined in many cases).

reply to post by mblahnikluver

Not to mention - even IF you thought this "Uterus Police" concept was a morally legitimate law, how in the hell do they think their state could afford it!!??

Miscarriage Statistics

• There are about 4.4 million confirmed pregnancies in the U.S. every year.
  
  
• Approximately 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage; some estimates are as high as 1 in 3. If you include loss that occurs before a positive pregnancy test, some estimate that 40% of all conceptions result in loss.

That comes out to about 1.1 to 1.7 million miscarriages per Year. Based on Georgia's population compared to the United States, that comes out to about 50,000 miscarriages per year in Georgia.

They would be opening up "investigations" on 137 woman per day, each day, for the entire year.

How large a staff would that take? Just the investigators alone would be a staggering number. Assuming each investigator could "solve" their case in 1 week - they would need 959 special investigators alone. Then you need the staff to support that large team, not to mention how this would tie up the courts!!! The courts would have to handle about 192 cases per day in a 5-day work week.

In short, just by the numbers alone, this idea is completely INSANE and IRRESPONSIBLE.

Combine that with the fact that it's totally Anti-American, I'd have to conclude that the people who are sponsoring this bill be lined up and pelted with rotten tomatoes by every woman in Georgia.

reply to post by SevenBeans


I agree. Pregnant women should not do anything that may cause their children to be born damaged in the future (smoking, drugging..), that should be illegal, because it causes suffering to future conscious persons. But miscarriage and abortion do not cause the child to be born damaged in the future. The child would never be born, never exist as s person, so no suffering.

It may sound strange that killing a fetus should be legal but damaging a fetus and then allowing it to become conscious suffering child should not, but thats how I view it. That is the best way to minimize suffering, both for women and children.

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
It is not due to neglect.

Many do occur because of neglect, saying otherwise is absurd.

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
To say that a miscarriage is always due to neglect is just ignorant. Do you share your beliefs with people you know that have had one? I dare ya to..I'd love to see how they treat you.

Yes that would be ignorant - has anyone said that? Didn't think so.

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
Oh and my mom smoked during her entire pregnancy with my sister and I and we were just fine and healthy as can be. I never had any health problems as a child and still don't.

Do you think pregnant women should be perfectly free to smoke? Get drunk? Cause their unborn brain damage? I'd appreciate you actually answering the question.

reply to post by SevenBeans


Then change them all because the same logic would apply. This idiot singled out rape victims, stalking victims, and clearly shows both is ideology and misogyny.

Lawmaker proposes relabeling rape victims as 'accusers'

It wasn't clear why Franklin's legislation includes only those specific laws, or whether it would affect how people who file complaints about other crimes, such as child molestation, assault or theft might be described.

reply to post by Klassified

It's not this bad in the blue states. believe me. I would prefer purple states myself and never thought I'd use this term, but I'm beginning to see it's usefulness. And maybe the usefulness of dividing this nation. This kind of radicalism worries me.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Then change them all because the same logic would apply. This idiot singled out rape victims, stalking victims, and clearly shows both is ideology and misogyny.

Well in most cases the victimization is already established so it makes sense to refer to them as victims, and when it isn't already established they are often referred to as "alleged victims."

Rape is a unique case because it often hinges upon whether the accuser was in fact a victim or not, constantly referring to a "victim" is obviously prejudicial. If someone gets beat up it's pretty easy to establish that they were in fact a victim etc. etc.

False allegations in rape cases are a very serious problem.

reply to post by harrytuttle

I wouldn't waste the tomatoes, but, there will be letters and maybe more.

One of the worst ‘side effects’ of this law that I can see (besides it being utterly insane) is women will start to hide their pregnancies. So, there goes prenatal care up to what, when she starts to show at 5-6 months.

Politicians need to stay the *BLEEP* out of women's bodies!

Well, you know what I mean.

peace

reply to post by harrytuttle


Wow that is a lot of investigations! They can't even take care of what they need to in the state yet they want to waste money on this and yes I think it is a waste. WHY put a mother thru something like this? I mean my god how inhumane do you have to be to go and knock on a womans door and say "hey we need to investigate why you lost your baby and see what YOU did wrong." Nuts!



Yes I agree those who support this should get tomatoes tossed at them

reply to post by SevenBeans

Bullsnot. The logic is the same. And alleged is used with rape as well. Keep stretching though. Exercise is healthy.

reply to post by SevenBeans


You are the one who said it is because of neglect!

Are you insane?!

Im not even wasting my time with you. You are a troll.

reply to post by SevenBeans


The problem with this line of thought, and understand that I said before I find the behavior repugnant, is that there are a number of other substances with teratogenic effects. Should there be laws against women eating undercooked meat, deli meats, smoked fish, fish of any kind, Raw shellfish, soft cheese, pate, and unwashed vegetables? What about caffeine? Once you open that can of worms, there are so many things that come out at you. Medication, food and beverage choices, lifestyle choices, the list is endless. It is up to the woman, and her partner if she has one to choose to create the best environment for the developing fetus.

The idea that you're putting forward makes the woman who looses the child responsible for something she may have no control over, sometimes you're exposed without knowing it too. Maybe women should be sent to breeding centers so that environment can be controlled? I think personal responsibility is key when it comes to pregnancy, but if something goes wrong you could end up persecuting a woman who had no control over the factors that caused the problem.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Bullsnot. The logic is the same. And alleged is used with rape as well. Keep stretching though. Exercise is healthy.

Obviously not. If someone burns your house down and they determine that it was set via forensics etc. etc. it's an established fact that you were a victim of arson. If someone beats you up with a bat the truth of that can also be determined. If someone shoots you in the back, it's obvious that you were in fact a victim.

When the case hinges upon whether someone was in fact a victim or not, constantly referring to them as "the victim" (when it hasn't been established that they were victimized at all) is presumptive and prejudicial.

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
You are the one who said it is because of neglect!

I said many miscarraiges occur because of neglect... *snip*

Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.

reply to post by SevenBeans


You sure love to throw out "with all the false accusations, with all misacarriages due to neglect" crap, but that's all it is without any statistics.

I would "guess" that most rape victims are victims. Women, most anyway IMO, would Never want to throw around these accusations unless they were true. And most rapes go unreported, due to fear of retribution , so you need a better understanding of this subject. Rape is a trauma most never fully recover mentally from and deserves the attention and label of victim. Just like other victims of burglary, theft, assault.www.paralumun.com...

THis polititian is an animal. He has absolutely no respect for women. Everything he is fighting for shows this.

reply to post by JewelFlip


Exactly... Your post reminds me of where the USA is headed.

People - you want to see where your future is?

Watch this movie.

Chosen women for mothers, chosen women for breeders and those who are breeders, controlled like cattle.



Link to Movie from 1-10

peace

reply to post by JewelFlip

Yes, and breeding centers would probably be just fine with him and his ilk too. This is exactly the slipper slope in the bigger issue here. Open the door and ,,,,

reply to post by silo13

Hiding pregnancies and not getting treatment they would need after miscarriages too. It's okay. I bleeped a bit as well. Some things are just more bleepable than others.

reply to post by silo13

Bingo! A very worthy tale indeed. If I ran the world, this book would be highly recommended reading for everyone. I would, of course, never force anyone to read it

Originally posted by JewelFlip
The idea that you're putting forward makes the woman who looses the child responsible for something she may have no control over, sometimes you're exposed without knowing it too.

I'm sure any consequences would be limited to the grossest, most obvious kinds of neglect/abuse. It's absurd that a pregnant woman can get drunk everyday, give birth to a severely braindamaged child, and generally not face any punitive legal consequences.