Out of body experiences just the product of a confused mind

reply to post by Gazrok


A family member is a brain surgeon. He believes in the mystical nature of near death experiences. He is certain there is more to humans than just meat or material. As a medical student, he lost his faith and became purely material. As a surgeon, faith came back and he became spiritual again. His experiences, especially with children, are amazing. He's seen angels around kids a couple of times! One - a being of light standing ten feet tall - was in the operating room and a nurse saw it too. No one else did.

He told me that the more he knows, the more he knows that there is too much for a human being to comprehend about life. He prays for God's guidance before every surgery. This will probably drive the missionaries of materialism nuts thinking a brain surgeon may be praying to God to guide him during surgery!

In my opinion, being able to stimulate the brain to open a person to other dimensions does not negate the reality that those dimensions exist. They are proving that a spiritual dimension of human beings and life does exist. Permitting people to play with opening our spiritual dimensions in a mentality of pure materialism, is probably not a great idea.

Originally posted by Griffo
I was watching 'The Wright Stuff' this morning as I do occasionally when this topic was brought up.

It seems that out of body experiences are nothing more than a temporary glitch in the brain. I always had my doubts about the reality of this phenomenon, especially as one could get the same or similar effects after indulging on dissociative anaesthetics or hallucinogens.

But scientists now claim they have dispelled this myth by artificially creating an out-of-body experience using computers and cameras.

They believe the feeling of detachment occurs when the brain becomes confused by conflict between the senses - and is not proof of any "spiritual dimension" to existence.

Out of body experiences are just the product of a confused mind

It occurred to me a while ago that people who have these 'out of body experiences' have a similar experience to people who have undergone conditions of extreme G force. The reason why people get tunnel vision and can sometimes see a white light when they have experienced a lot of G force is because not enough oxygen can reach the brain. Similarly, when a person is dying, in some circumstances not enough oxygen can reach the brain which could cause similar effects to present

Makes sense. What happened to common sense?

hmm...interesting... wonder if TPTB have realised an increase in people having OBE's and thought "oh crap, we better try and kill this one before its dangerous to us"

...I write this as a previous heavy skeptic until my OBE recently.

This study is really nonsense.

They don't know the mechanism for this. They say it just something that occurs in the brain.

Also, look at all the things that they had to use.

Computer generated avatar
Goggles
Cameras

Where are all these things in a persons bedroom when the OBE occurs?

I have had several OBE's and the next day I didn't find a computer generated avatar, goggles and cameras lying around the room. Also I actually walked around in other rooms and I looked at myself lying on the bed.

This is just wishful thinking from scientist who want answers to things they can't explain and they're throwing this nonsense out there just to make themselves feel better. Now they can convince themselves that OBE's don't exist.

The truth still exist even when you lie to yourself.

What the scientists haven't explained is how can some people who has an OBE are able to recall the things the doctors have said and are able to decribe what the doctors and nurses were doing to these people and even the room they were in while the body is totally unconscious.

It's nice that scientist are taking an interest in these things but they shouldn't just write off the OBE as a 'confused mind' after one experiment.

reply to post by Traydor


Exactly,

The scientist just created an optical illusion using cameras, computer generated avatars and goggles. It's no different than a magician creating an optical illusion using different props. So the scientist just created an optical illusion using all this equipment. Have they ever read an O.B.E. account? Derren Brown makes people feel like he's touching them without touching them without a computer generated avatar and goggles.

The likely case is something triggers the Pineal gland to release a small to large amount of Dimethyltryptamine. The more of it the more intense the experience.

reply to post by ThichHeaded


Unfortunatley i think they have become deluded. People Always latch on to these halucinations because they think it gives them evidence of some sort of magical part of reality...

Its all pitifull self-comforting delusion and assuming some how that mods and ats members are above this... is the most ignorant thing ive ever heard.

reply to post by Griffo


Actually the reason people have near death experiences is because when at the near death stage the human brain releases high amounts of '___', a hallucinogen that is 100's of times stronger then '___' and causes complete "ego-death" or "out of body experiences." The article is interesting for regular, non near-death OOB's though.

Originally posted by lllllllll
This proves nothing, all I'm seeing in all this is that they found a way to make the person feel as if they were 2 meters out of their body... it's just the feeling of being out, thats the glitch. This doesn't even come remotely close to what a real out of body experience is.

Please correct me if I am wrong or misunderstanding something, but from my personal experience, an out of body experience is A LOT MORE than just thinking you're 2 meters above your body.

Exactly. I always wonder why people act like science knows all things. And especially knows anything about the spiritual side. Of course these experiences can be recreated because they turn off the physical senses and the only thing left is consciousness. Same thing can be done in a sensory deprivation tank. The idea this proves the experience is not real is laughable. It only proves the experience can be had by short circuiting everything that senses the physical. Turn off the physical and what is left? What ever animates the body or consciousness!

Computer simulations were meant to be a great thing...shame now they just set the parameters to which ones give them the results they want for their argument.

It's amazing how on the Science and Technology forum, people responding to the OP are not arguing on the basis of science. This is a forum for science, so please, argue science with science.

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
They don't know the mechanism for this. They say it just something that occurs in the brain.

Exactly, that's the point. They're saying that it's a phenomena generated by the brain itself, and not a real event as people perceive it to be.

Originally posted by Tangled2011
shame now they just set the parameters to which ones give them the results they want for their argument.

They wanted to see if they could artificially produce out-of-body experiences, and they were able to. That was the entire point.

I think that reading threads like this are good for the soul.

Its good to laugh once and awhile.

What is with people denying that there is anything special about us, when clearly there is?

I consider this a disinformation thread on feeling alone, and yes its my right. Just had to add my two cents, for whats its worth in the strawman world.

to be fair, as it currently stands there is more evidence produced by this test than the theory of going into another dimension or whatever. To even start thinking about that theory you would need to prove the existence of a 4th dimension which is impossible.

reply to post by PieKeeper

t's amazing how on the Science and Technology forum, people responding to the OP are not arguing on the basis of science. This is a forum for science, so please, argue science with science.

Science is the one making claims they can't prove that is what is pointed out.

tOriginally posted by Matrix Rising
They don't know the mechanism for this. They say it just something that occurs in the brain.



Exactly, that's the point. They're saying that it's a phenomena generated by the brain itself, and not a real event as people perceive it to be

They can say what they want but they proved nothing. They cannot prove the brain generated the experience. They cannot prove the experience is not real.The brain processes physical senses they short circuited that and consciousness still exists. Science has no clue what animates the body and produces thought, self awareness, and consciousness etc. The brain is just a mechanism that is powered by the consciousness. Science only measures physical response. It has no way to measure the consciousness.

t Originally posted by Tangled2011
shame now they just set the parameters to which ones give them the results they want for their argument.

They wanted to see if they could artificially produce out-of-body experiences, and they were able to. That was the entire point.

Artificially??? They have no idea what they produced. People have been inducing similar experiences for millennia through meditation, using plants/substances, and various means of sensory deprivation such as they do today with tanks. This does not prove it was artificial or not real it only proves the experience can b reproduced. Assuming that proves it is not real is quite a leap. As I said Science does not know all things. Assuming it does is it's biggest blind spot.

Next scientist will discover or prove that a belief in god is just some kinda mental illness, though i'd probably agree .

reply to post by PieKeeper


You have to be joking.

All they did was create an optical illusion using mirrors, computer generated avatar, goggles and a camera. They could have saved time and money and hired a magician if they wanted to prove that optical illusions occur but this has nothing to do with an O.B.E.

They don't know what triggers an O.B.E. but they do know what triggered the optical illusion in the experiment wich is a computer generated avatar, goggles, mirrors and cameras.

Originally posted by hawkiye
Science is the one making claims they can't prove that is what is pointed out.

No one has shown that out-of-body experiences are a supernatural phenomena and not an illusion being constructed by the brain itself. What we have here is a group of scientists demonstrating that they can produce out-of-body experiences by tricking the senses into perceiving a false idea of body position.

Originally posted by hawkiye
They can say what they want but they proved nothing. They cannot prove the brain generated the experience. They cannot prove the experience is not real.The brain processes physical senses they short circuited that and consciousness still exists. Science has no clue what animates the body and produces thought, self awareness, and consciousness etc. The brain is just a mechanism that is powered by the consciousness. Science only measures physical response. It has no way to measure the consciousness.

If you want to get into philosophy, an experience is still an experience. What isn't real in this case is the nature of the experience. It wasn't a disembodied consciousness that produced these OOBs, it was a confusion of the senses.

Thought, self awareness, and consciousness are all products of brain activity. This is pretty well known, and there isn't any evidence to show otherwise.

Artificially??? They have no idea what they produced. People have been inducing similar experiences for millennia through meditation, using plants/substances, and various means of sensory deprivation such as they do today with tanks. This does not prove it was artificial or not real it only proves the experience can b reproduced. Assuming that proves it is not real is quite a leap. As I said Science does not know all things. Assuming it does is it's biggest blind spot.

Again, what I'm saying is artificial or unreal is the nature of the experience. They've shown us that they can induce OOBs purposefully, which I think is appropriate to call artificial.

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
but this has nothing to do with an O.B.E.

It absolutely does. Out-of-body experiences deal with body position, which relates to the sense of proprioception. These scientists were able to fool our sense of proprioception by confusing the brain with sight and touch. Out-of-body experiences relate directly to proprioception.

reply to post by Griffo

I am personally convinced that the classical one that happens in bed is same as a WILD induced lucid dream.
I have had plenty of those as well thanks to WILD technique and they are exactly like people describe them to be.
The only difference imo is the beliefs of the person.

Either way the so called oobe this article talk about is very different from at least the typical ones which usually happens in bed and often includes sleep paralysis/vibrations and so on.

"The product of a confused mind". This does not explain OBE's where people exit their body, witness things,and have them verified by the fire crew who were cutting them out fo a car wreck, or the surgeons battling to save them on the operating table. I don't understand why science seems to be scared of the possibility of a spiritual facet to reality.