The opinion of banned members has no worth?

I noticed a little while ago that for any post made by a banned member, any stars that post may have received are simply replaced with a ~ character. Is there a specific reason this was done (one that makes sense)? It just seems to me like the opinion of anyone who gets banned instantly becomes worthless. I know some outstanding posters who have been banned for reasons unknown to me (since it's against the rules to discuss such things), some of those banned members even have threads that are within the top 10 most flagged of all time for certain boards. I just feel it a little disrespectful that all their work and contributions are degraded in such a manner, they already paid the price for their behaviors by being banned. It makes some people skip over good posts made by these members, because stars often stick out and highlight a good post - as is intended. I could deal with the fact banned members no longer show up on the member list at all, but I really had to say something about this. What does everyone else think?

The post/topic is still present and not deleted. At least it is still there for people to read. I would rather hear that my post remains if i was banned than how many stars i got.

reply to post by WhizPhiz


And to be honest, sometimes stars mean nothing at all! I have seen some ludicrous, outlandish, pointless posts with dozens of stars, whilst some other, thought provoking, interesting, well written posts receive one or two, or none at all!

The star system can be abused by factions who wish to support their own point of view, so I don't hold much value in it, if I've got something to say, I'll say it...don't really care about stars, and if people took the time to read the posts, rather than counting the stars, then they may learn something new and have a different perspective, rather than just following the popular posts or posters...

reply to post by SKinLaB

The post/topic is still present and not deleted. At least it is still there for people to read. I would rather hear that my post remains if i was banned than how many stars i got.

I mainly talking about just random posts in any thread, the flags still let people get an idea of the threads quality. But posts made like a few pages into a thread or something of that nature simply become less noticeable and all their appreciation (starts) is removed.

reply to post by WhizPhiz


Just to point out, banned members, surfing ATS cannot see the stars anyway.

reply to post by destination now

And to be honest, sometimes stars mean nothing at all! I have seen some ludicrous, outlandish, pointless posts with dozens of stars, whilst some other, thought provoking, interesting, well written posts receive one or two, or none at all!

I could not agree more with you, and you are also correct about the star function being abused to push certain agendas. But that still doesn't get around the main point of concern here, I just don't think it's fair, and I can see no reasonable explanation except that ATS simply wants to take the focus off such posts by any means necessary. What logical reason is their for suppressing the appreciation people showed their contributions? It's just disrespectful and only serves to further push certain agendas IMO.

reply to post by WhizPhiz


A couple of days ago 2 regulars got banned , no idea why , there was nothing offensive in the posts I saw .
But not making it known is like having no post mortem after a death .

Discussing it would allow users Not to to make the same mistakes and prevent themselves from getting banned .
Not discussing it is mossad style Not conspiracy theory forum style.

Why are people getting banned ?
How many are you banning a week ?
These are not offensive questions , they are questions that harm no one

reply to post by Hefficide

Just to point out, banned members, surfing ATS cannot see the stars anyway

I didn't think anyone who was logged out could see stars?

reply to post by WhizPhiz


Im guessing they remove any indication of the banned persons popularity so that people seeing the profile dont wonder why they might have banned someone so popular. Kind of as a hedge against speculation that the banning is random and arbitrary. If I see someone banned who has few or posts, and stars, I would assume that they just made an account and came here to start trouble, or just couldnt behave, or consistently ignored the rules, etc. I would question the member, not the owners.

If I see a very popular member banned, with a long history here, and lots of posts and stars, it makes me question the owners, not the member. Because the stars and flags and posts sort of establish their credibility in a sense. It really causes you to speculate that perhaps the banning was personal, and maybe unwarranted. So, I am guessing thats why they might do that.

That way the person is just banned, and it reduces speculation on our part as to whether or not it was justified.

there's also post banning abuse of the system.

member gets banned and then, after the banning, friends decide to star the hell out of their posts, creating a false image of the member

reply to post by Crakeur

member gets banned and then, after the banning, friends decide to star the hell out of their posts, creating a false image of the member

Ok, well that's a reasonable explanation. However, it would seem fairer if after a banning, stars could no longer be given to their posts. It would take a lot of stars to make any sort of reasonable degree of change to their profile, so I'm guessing it's certain posts made by those members which relate to their banning which get starred. And it's understandable why people would act this way, maybe if some sort of slight explanation was given when very popular members get banned (ET wink wink) the amount of inquiry would be drastically reduced. People simply can't sit by and do or say nothing when some of the most respected members are getting banned, and to think that's what will happen on a forum like this is ludicrous.

Originally posted by Doomzilla
reply to post by WhizPhiz

 

A couple of days ago 2 regulars got banned , no idea why , there was nothing offensive in the posts I saw .
But not making it known is like having no post mortem after a death .

Yea I noticed the bannings too and looked to see what the offensiveness could have been. Then it occured to me that it might have been abuses using the U2U system, or the threads in which the violations may have occured could have been deleted entirely, thus removing all posts in said threads. Then I realized how silly I was being by trying to look up 'gossipy' information.

Discussing it would allow users Not to to make the same mistakes and prevent themselves from getting banned .
Not discussing it is mossad style Not conspiracy theory forum style.

Usually I am in step with the TnC of the site, but this is one topic that I have always wondered about. By showing examples of bannable offenses, it would solidify the sometime gray line that exists between acceptable and inappropriate behavior.

At the end of the day though, we need to be responsible for our activity here on the boards. I have seen members have meltdowns and end up being banned because they simply let another member bait them into an offtopic mudslinging competition. By rising above the pettiness and taking personal responsibilty, we all can remain active participating members of this great site. I know there have been a few times where I have typed a response, re-read it and thought better of actually posting it. I wish I hasd thought that about my one removed post though, I am srtill embarrassed about that one

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
maybe if some sort of slight explanation was given when very popular members get banned

Easy enough. Everyone who has ever been, or will ever be banned finds themselves thusly situated for violations of the site Terms and Conditions. It's no secret.

Some are banned after repeatedly violating it overandoverandover again for more minor infractions like off-topic posting or incivility, but refuse to comply with repeated attempts to correct their behavior through private messaging and post-banning. Others go out in a temporary blaze by committing really egregious, over the top violations that are so heinous, no remedial efforts are attempted.

But that's it. No other reasons exist.

Popularity is by no means insulation from action. Not for the general membership, not for the staff. Play nice, be civil, stay on topic, don't lie, don't steal, don't be a jerk. Sounds simple, and isn't anything the average kindergartner doesn't know. Unfortunately, it's apparently easier said than done for some.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
reply to post by youdidntseeme

 

Can I just ask, what is it about that avatar you use? There have been many members that use a similar avatar (like the one with what looks like a frisbee), are you all part of the same "group" or something?

edit on 16-2-2011 by WhizPhiz because: (no reason given)

No group think here (to stay on topic, teaming with other members as part of an attempt to derail the boards or push an opinion actually is a bannable offense!!)

Its a very popular poster in the alien/et world, havnt you ever seen The X Files? Mulder had it in his office.

reply to post by yeahright

But that's it. No other reasons exist.

How do I put this..."yeahright" just about sums it up...

Sorry, but I have my reasons not to believe that statement.

reply to post by youdidntseeme

Its a very popular poster in the alien/et world, havnt you ever seen The X Files? Mulder had it in his office.

Oh, well that just about explains it. It had me wondering for a while, thanks for enlightening me!

reply to post by yeahright


And because the t& c is so vast , long , complicated and user unfriendly , thats why i see so many people getting banned.

No opinion one way or the other with regards to stars/flags, but the fact that banned members can no longer be searched in the "members" search page is disappointing. There are very interesting threads hiding in 'the deep' that should be able to get to via searching for thread authors, though I suppose topical search will work, as well.

reply to post by youdidntseeme


I've been here a while, and for the most part, the bannings I have seen have seemed pretty reasonable. I havent seen evidence of serious abuse by the owners of that, in fact I think they do try very hard to tolerate opinions they may not like. They are human, and they get mad too, or tired of ATS owner bashing, and may act in the heat of the moment on occasion, but I have been very impressed for the most part by their dedication to allowing dissent.

We all want to know the gory details when something like a banning happens, its the way people are. But I guess I just consider all the people I have seen, myself included, disagreeing rather hotly at times with some policy who DONT get banned. I have been on boards run by agreement Nazi's. Who ban people for any threat to their authority or point of view, and ATS is not one of them.