Self defense or CIA Op gone wrong in Pakistan ???

LAHORE, Pakistan -- Pakistani police alleged Friday that an American held in a pair of shootings committed "cold-blooded murder," while a judge ordered the man's detention extended for 14 days in a local jail and told the Pakistani government to clarify if he has diplomatic immunity.

The U.S. says the American, 36-year-old Raymond Allen Davis, shot two Pakistanis on Jan. 27 because they were trying to rob him in the eastern city of Lahore. Washington insists his detention is illegal under international agreements covering diplomats because he was a U.S. Embassy staffer, and American officials have begun curbing diplomatic contacts and threatening to cut off billions in aid to Pakistan if he is not freed.

www.foxnews.com...

take a good look at that picture in the link.
u might just be looking at a covert CIA Operative
working under the guise of a US Embassy Staffer.

Now why would America threaten to cut off
Billions of dollars in aid to Pakistan if this was
just a self defense case?? Something fishy here.

One of the 2 dead men was shot in the back as he was
fleeing. How is that self defense to shoot someone
running away from you??? And he didn't even have
a gun.

There is a lot more to this story than we are hearing.

This American Staffer was alone when this incident
happened. What staffer carries small arms with them???
And thusly has the knowledge to kill 2 men with it in
a matter of seconds?

Pakistan authorities have asked America if he has
diplomatic immunity and America hasn't responded.
I wonder why???

Remember, Pakistan outed another CIA Agent
not long ago. And now this. hmmmmm

and why would you shoot a man
in the back as he was fleeing???

Maybe to keep him from telling
what really happened ???

Dead men don't talk

Lord knows if I got sent to pakistan by my employer I wouldn't agree to go unless they obtained proper permissions for me to be armed. Not escorted by armed men mind you, but armed myself. As far as the government threatening to take the aid away from pakistan over this...

Quite frankly I would HOPE this would be the default approach they should take in defense of ANY employee that is being held by the pakistani government.

Now with that said, the US government does NOT operate this way!

So who knows....

This adds a little fuel to it.

From your article...

According to records from the Pentagon, Davis is a former Special Forces soldier who left the army in August 2003 after 10 years of service. A Virginia native, he served with infantry divisions prior to joining the 3rd Special Forces Group in Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

In 1994, he was part of the U.N. peacekeeping force in Macedonia. His record includes several awards and medals, including for good conduct.

Public records also show Davis runs a company with his wife registered in Las Vegas called Hyperion Protective Services, though it was not immediately clear whether the company has had many contracts with the U.S. government.

Will have to keep an eye on this one. Nice find.

reply to post by GAOTU789

wow, excellent find urself.
I had not seen that info.
star for u

yes, that is more fuel
to the fire.

Now what would an ex-special forces
be doing in Pakistan workin as a US Staffer
if he was a legit business owner???

this stinks to high heaven

Obviously it would help if we had an accurate details on what the 2 dead Pakistani's did for a living.

Originally posted by freedom12
Obviously it would help if we had an accurate details on what the 2 dead Pakistani's did for a living.

that is an excellent point
but I doubt we ever find that out.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
take a good look at that picture in the link.
u might just be looking at a covert CIA Operative
working under the guise of a US Embassy Staffer.

What I find interesting is that this whole episode is like a page out of a spy novel, but in the stories, you see all of this shoot-em-up, with no apparent consequences. While I'm no fan of a runaway intelligence agency, I do recognise that diplomatic cover is diplomatic cover...a deal's a deal. The operative should be allowed to slip out, given that Pakistan is dependent upon US dollars. He who pays the piper...

Of course, we'll never get the whole story. Just like the FBI agent lost in...what...Iran? We had an ATS member with a connection to that.

reply to post by boondock-saint


Very interesting...as always boon, S&F.

I found the company in Las Vegas

Hyperion Protective Services

Nevada Secretary Of State

reply to post by boondock-saint


Yes, special forces doesn't sound like he was really in admin or tech as the US states..

But you missed this, a third death....

After the shootings in Lahore on Jan. 27, Davis called for backup. The American car rushing to the scene hit a third Pakistani, a bystander, who later died. The U.S. has said nothing about the Americans involved in that third death, though Pakistani police have said they want to question them as well.

Seems they were in a rush to get him outt there...

A lot of politics involved . Much of Pakistan has a hatred for Americans , a lot to do with Predator strikes so if an American is involved in something like this the population goes nuts and the police must act . This will shake out and Davis will be back home , probably , but everyone from police to judges have to take great care or they get whacked next .

Since everyone else is guessing , i'll make a guess also , but it's only a guess . Davis is a private security contractor , contracted to Xe and hired by the State Department to provide security and protection for American embassy staff in Pakistan so he does have diplomatic immunity .

Some bad guys wanted to kill an American , watched and wanted to catch one American alone to kill him . They picked the wrong American . They approached on a motor bike and the first Davis noticed them in the crowd is when they were right to his car with guns drawn . Davis was in a seated position , behind the steering wheel with his gun holstered under a shirt and a jacket . As the bad guys guns came up Davis drew , beat them and shot out through his window . As the first bad guy was going down the second bad guy tried to spin and took at least one in the back .

He didn't call or radio anyone . Two other security contractors were half a block behind him in traffic , saw it going down and rushed to cover him and provide protection . They carved their vehicle sideways to block traffic in case another ambush was coming from any other direction . That's when they accidentally hit a pedestrian .

Remember Richard Pearl . They cut his head off and murdered him just because he was an American which is the same reason they were about to kill Davis . Should anyone believe that the bad guys aren't really bad guys and have every reason to hold a grudge , go walk in the neighborhood , apologize for being an evil American and tell them that you've arrived to better understand them and sing campfire songs .

You may have a second thought when you're being held down and someone starts stabbing your throat with a knife to cut your head off . If you're American embassy staff you're some lucky to have someone so supremely skilled like Davis along to keep you alive . Nothing sinister about him .

reply to post by bandito

Some bad guys wanted to kill an American , watched and wanted to catch one American alone to kill him . They picked the wrong American . They approached on a motor bike and the first Davis noticed them in the crowd is when they were right to his car with guns drawn .

Nice story but they must have been very bad assassins..
They only had one gun between them and it wasn't cocked...
The police report states no bullet in the chamber...

reply to post by bandito


Don't quit your day job; writing fiction is not your forte

Originally posted by freedom12
Obviously it would help if we had an accurate details on what the 2 dead Pakistani's did for a living.

They were sleuths from the notorious Pakistani intel agency - the ISI - who were tailing him like they do to other staffers from other countries too, notably India, Iran, UK and Afghanistan.

These ISI agents have been known to harass these staffers no end, sometimes even bumping into their cars and obstructing their movements.

It's a wild ass situation out there. The Pakistan Army rules Pakistan by proxy along with its adjunct, the ISI. So no one in the civil administration can do anything about it. Neither can any politician in that lame duck government dare do anything about these guys who are a law unto themselves.

It's good those ISI sleuths got shot up. After all, it's a war going on out there. And in war, one is licensed to kill his enemies or be killed!

reply to post by OrionHunterX

It's good those ISI sleuths got shot up. After all, it's a war going on out there. And in war, one is licensed to kill his enemies or be killed!

Hmm, two dead, one in the back..Only one gun that's not cocked..
Damn them ISI sleuths need some CIA or Mossad training..

And last I heard the US and Pakistan were not at war..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by OrionHunterX

 

It's good those ISI sleuths got shot up. After all, it's a war going on out there. And in war, one is licensed to kill his enemies or be killed!

Hmm, two dead, one in the back..Only one gun that's not cocked..
Damn them ISI sleuths need some CIA or Mossad training..

One in the back? For God's sake they were on a mo'bike!! And he was in a car!! It's all about relative speed of the two vehicles and the angle at the time of firing off the shots. Mo'bikes do accelerate and brake faster!

And last I heard the US and Pakistan were not at war..

Huh? Then you need to go there and see for yourself! The anti Americanism out there is mind boggling! Never mind the billions of dollars being dished out to them on a silver platter! They just need an excuse to clobber the Americans!

And yes, these clowns do need some CIA/MOSSAD training!

wow, some conjecture up there in those
possible scenarios? maybe.

The original OP I thought stated that this
was a robbery attempt and everyone was on foot.
Hence the guy gets hit in the back while running
away. What did I miss here ???

And i would agree with the poster who said
Pakistan is a war zone. Remember, the ISI
is the one who sent funds to Muhammed Attah
right before 9/11.

reply to post by boondock-saint


Here ya go Boon.

According to the Pakistani police, Mr. Davis, dressed in jeans and a checked shirt, was driving along one of the busiest thoroughfares in Lahore when he shot the two men through the windshield of his car. He then stepped out of his car and photographed the dead men with a digital camera. He said at the time that he shot in self-defense because he believed that the men were armed, the police said.

Link to Story


It looks to me like Spy vs Spy ..... CIA 2 - Paki SF 0

These guys were NOT innocent.. I keep seeing people say "The chamber was empty"... really? WTF does it matter if they had racked a round? There weren't boy scouts, and this US agent DID NOT decide that it would be the perfect place to shoot 2 people in a foreign (hostile) country. Regardless of what his job/position is, he was forced to shoot. Whether it be a robbery or feeling his life was in danger.... He did NOT do this out of "wanting to" ... IMO ..it was out of necessity.

The Lahore police said Mr. Haider and Mr. Fahim were armed and carrying stolen cellphones when they were shot.

Link to Story

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by bandito

 

Don't quit your day job; writing fiction is not your forte

From the registration date, I am guessing he is working at his day job. .
Still bad fiction. My mom always said, if your'e gonna get paid to do a job, you should do it right.

reply to post by boondock-saint


The two men killed by American Raymond Davis in Lahore worked for ISI???

The two men gunned down by US national Raymond Davis in Lahore last month were working for ISI which was tailing the American because he was spying and "encroaching on their turf", according to a media report. The two men were sent to track Davis by the ISI, which believed that he had crossed "a red line" and needed to be followed, four unnamed Pakistani officials were quoted as saying by ABC News. The men Davis shot had been following him for at least two hours and recorded some of his movements on their cell phone cameras, one of the Pakistani officials said.....

However

Davis came to Pakistan on a diplomatic passport and is a "member of the technical and administrative staff" of the US embassy in Islamabad, American officials said.

"In public and in private, US officials say they do not believe reports that the two men Davis shot and killed were working for the ISI. They say the men had robbed another person before they approached Davis' car," the report said.

And...interestingly enough....

Davis was arrested after he shot and killed the two men in a busy area of Lahore on January 27. He claimed he acted in self-defence as the two armed men were trying to rob him.

Police found pistols on both the dead men, who were riding a motorcycle.

Pakistani intelligence agencies often use operatives riding motorcycles to tail people.

A third Pakistani man was killed when he was hit by a speeding US consulate vehicle rushing to aid Davis. The matter was further complicated after the widow of one of the men killed by Davis committed suicide.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com...