Doctors in training taught to physically violate unconscious patients.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

 

Of course they are ridiculous. All the same, people thinking that this is a GREAT idea is rather disturbing.

Can you explain how medical students are supposed to learn these exams, then? Do you have a better place to get willing (remember, these patients signed waivers, making them legally 'willing' to have these procedures performed) people?

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa


Yes, I can think of many ways which aren't unethical.

Unethical doctors aren't something someone I want to see, or have dosing my children.

reply to post by Aeons


Please provide these methods, then. I'm sure inquiring minds would love to hear them.

Keep in mind, there is nothing unethical about what the medical students in the article did, as anyone who enters a teaching hospital signs a form explicitly stating that they agree to allow reasonable procedures to be performed as part of a teaching exercise.

How is it "unethical" to assume people read what they sign? Is it "unethical" for a credit card company to demand payment of your debt that you racked up, even if you didn't read the card agreement?

No. Your "unethical" thing shows that you are either trolling or haven't any ethics and are perhaps a bit psychopathic. No point in trying to convince psychopaths about anything that isn't directly related to what is best for them personally. Convincing psychopaths that other people matter is quite a pointless activity.

reply to post by baddmove


I am in the uk ans here is a personal story. I was in hospital in the 70's and the girl in the next bed had her hair dyed green, she also dyed her pubic hair the same colour. We were having our appendix out and she stuck a note to her abdomen reading "please do not cut the grass"
On awakening from the operation and comparing our wounds we saw that across her tummy in marker pen it was written "sorry we had to mow the lawn"
We thought it was hilarious but some nurse reported it and it ended up going to court. Now I can see it wasn't the right thing for the surgeon to have done but she had the sense of humour to have left him a note in the first place. Sometimes the lines between a joke and abuse get blurred.

This is wrong,.
That is all to really say about it,.

I tend to think that this story is based part on fact and part on fantasy. I imagine at a teaching hospital, there are some things that may happen there that wouldn't at a 'regular' hospital, but I just can't believe all of that is true.

Bottom line, (no pun intended) if you are going in for surgery, ask up front everything that is going to be involved and be clear on what is going to happen. Ask if your genitals are going to be touched or if you can leave your underwear on. I would think ANY invasive action would have to be documented and the patient notified.

For example, my young daughter just had her appendix removed. Part of the procedure is placing a catheter during the operation to keep the bladder empty and out of the way. There was a doc in training who asked permission to watch and then two EMTS doing their ER time came in and asked if they could also watch the operation. I think that because I am an EMT myself, someone there I knew may have told them I might be okay with it. I asked my daughter if she would mind (she didn't care about much at that point) and I told them I had no problem with it.

What I did say though, to the Surgical nurse in charge of her care, that I didn't want anyone in the room that didn't need to be there during the catheter placement and prep. That I wanted to protect her privacy and make sure she was covered before other people were allowed in. She said absolutely, that only her and the Respiratory therapist would be allowed in.

After the surgery the surgeon (who is GREAT!) thanked me for allowing the students to observe and assured me that her privacy was protected at all times. I absolutely believe him, and I know that these medical students are there to learn in a professional environment, not violate the privacy of a little girl.

We all just need to be up front about our expectations and concerns and if you don't think you are being respected, address it immediately.

reply to post by Aeons


Why can't you just explain how medical students are going to learn these procedures without performing them?

You said you could do it, now do it.

Originally posted by squizzy
reply to post by baddmove

 

I am in the uk ans here is a personal story. I was in hospital in the 70's and the girl in the next bed had her hair dyed green, she also dyed her pubic hair the same colour. We were having our appendix out and she stuck a note to her abdomen reading "please do not cut the grass"
On awakening from the operation and comparing our wounds we saw that across her tummy in marker pen it was written "sorry we had to mow the lawn"
We thought it was hilarious but some nurse reported it and it ended up going to court. Now I can see it wasn't the right thing for the surgeon to have done but she had the sense of humour to have left him a note in the first place. Sometimes the lines between a joke and abuse get blurred.

This is a common anecdote, quoted almost word for word in your post. Are you sure this is a "personal" story?

Originally posted by squizzy
reply to post by baddmove

 

I am in the uk ans here is a personal story. I was in hospital in the 70's and the girl in the next bed had her hair dyed green, she also dyed her pubic hair the same colour. We were having our appendix out and she stuck a note to her abdomen reading "please do not cut the grass"
On awakening from the operation and comparing our wounds we saw that across her tummy in marker pen it was written "sorry we had to mow the lawn"
We thought it was hilarious but some nurse reported it and it ended up going to court. Now I can see it wasn't the right thing for the surgeon to have done but she had the sense of humour to have left him a note in the first place. Sometimes the lines between a joke and abuse get blurred.

This is a common anecdote, quoted almost word for word in your post. Are you sure this is a "personal" story?

Originally posted by squizzy
reply to post by baddmove

 

I am in the uk ans here is a personal story. I was in hospital in the 70's and the girl in the next bed had her hair dyed green, she also dyed her pubic hair the same colour. We were having our appendix out and she stuck a note to her abdomen reading "please do not cut the grass"
On awakening from the operation and comparing our wounds we saw that across her tummy in marker pen it was written "sorry we had to mow the lawn"
We thought it was hilarious but some nurse reported it and it ended up going to court. Now I can see it wasn't the right thing for the surgeon to have done but she had the sense of humour to have left him a note in the first place. Sometimes the lines between a joke and abuse get blurred.

This is a common anecdote, quoted almost word for word in your post. Are you sure this is a "personal" story?