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The signs of the return of Jesus Christ. The conquering of Iran? And Gentiles out of Jerusalem?

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posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 02:53 AM
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After reading up on Harold Camping (link) and his date for the return of Jesus Christ I though I would actually put out the signs of his imminent return from the horses mouth so to speak.

So to start with go to Matthew 24 and here is the question he is answering here.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming? And of the end of the world?

And the answers were this. First. When shall these things be?
Answer: 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Second. And of the end of the world?
Answer: 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

And finally third. And what shall be the sign of thy coming?
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The carcass is the key event here. What is the carcass???
And I realized I had the answer to that question.
It is his 2nd reference back to the book of Daniel. Daniel 8 to be exact. Why? How? Ok, here's why.

After looking at Matthew 24 and Daniel I realized why there is a reference to the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24. Daniel 11 has never been fulfilled. How is that? Look at these references in Daniel.

Daniel 8.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
Daniel 11
6 And in the end of years
40 And at the time of the end

So when is the time of the end?
Daniel 12
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

And this verse from Genesis 49.
1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

According to Genesis 48 and 49 the offspring of Jacob were supposed to become a multitude of nations. A condition not met by the first century AD. And with such a important condition unfulfilled you can draw only one conclusion. Daniel 8 and 11 are future events. Not completed past events. So what happens in Daniel 8?

2 nations/kings are conquered first in the battle between the ram and the goat. Then the ram is killed. Leaving a carcass. So what is the ram? The kings of Media and Persia. The general area of Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan.

Whis at the moment is 2 down and one to go. It would appear we are waiting for "Persia" which is today's Iran to be conquered.

The 2nd sign of his coming is from Luke 21. And here are the verses from that.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

I would point out that per the prophecy it's predicting that Jerusalem is one day going to be completely controlled by Jews again. Has yet to happen. But it could be anytime now.

edit on 24-1-2011 by ntech because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 03:12 AM
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Regarding jews gaining complete control of Jerusalem, these articles may be relevant:

www.guardian.co.uk...
english.aljazeera.net...

It's about "sell-out" palestinian leaders agreeing to allow Israel to annex all but one of the settlements built in occupied East Jerusalem



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 03:17 AM
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oh i love scripture..
lets take it all out of context
ready set go



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 03:42 AM
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It's all very interesting but like mentioned, a lot of scripture gets taken out of context and someone else might see something different in the quoted text in the OP.

That and honestly, I read it and skipped most of the Bible references because I really find it difficult to follow and know what the hell is being said.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 03:46 AM
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reply to post by ntech
 


I don't think I am ready, or will ever be. Rest assured however, that our Rock and Roll band with all our

Sins and imperfections, would welcome The Healer with open arms. Free access to our Shure Sm58 mics

and PA System would be a given. Last I heard, The Master had an affinity for Carpentry, and Gardening.

All my work tools would be available...from my bleeding blistered fingers.

Maybe we could go fishing together and respect Magdalene with the bounty of our hooks and nets.

Make the children smile.... Make the old ones last a little while....longer. Before our Inadvertent Trial......



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 03:54 AM
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reply to post by curious7
 


Truthfully it does read like a couple of hundred page technical manual but simplified what Jesus Christ is doing is giving 2 separate signs or events that would occur immediately before his return. Two events within the realm of possibly happening in the next few years.

The conquering of Iran.

And the Jews taking full control of Jerusalem.

The 2 links in the 2nd post there showing the possibilities there.

You know if the Muslims there wanted to be serious about the end times they would promptly accomplish both prophesies if just to see if he would come. He is prominent in their end time mythology too you know.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 04:05 AM
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Yep, but hes not gonna pop back out of a well with the Mahdi.....
Hes gonna be helping to straighten out all the old problems with the mahdi and his crowd.....
Not presiding over his kingdom as the christian take has it going down.....



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 04:25 AM
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reply to post by stirling
 


The Biblical take is that after a peace treaty is signed between the Caliphate and revived Roman empire the Muslims manage to Pearl Harbor Italy and manage to control Rome for awhile. Sparking WW3 and a multiyear butt kicking between the 2. And the Antichrist butts in for the last 3.5 years of it. Per Daniel 11.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 04:31 AM
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Ahh thanks for explaining, I think we need more like you on this forum to decipher the scriptures so that it makes sense to us non religious types.

Doesn't that sound like a scary prospect? A section of Islam forcing those two things into being to see if it's true? What if it isn't? We'd have yet another pointless war started out of curiosity. What if it is? Mass panic the world over, people falling over themselves to convert to a religion quickly to avoid being judged badly.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 04:54 AM
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There's such a thing as self fulfilling prophecies. Every generation since it was authored has reckoned the Book of Revelation applied to them. It follows the same pattern as the bog standard hypnotic script. We are the creators and masters of our own destiny whether we can accept that responsibilty or not.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 05:35 AM
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Well a literal interpretation misses the mark here. Fist of all it the word "world" is mistranslated it should be "end of the age" not world. The Greek word is "eon" which means age. So its the end of the age not the world. What comes after the end of an age? Duh a new age...


Second the word heaven is translated from the Greek uranos which is also the root word of uranium. this is not a coincidence. Here is an alternative view for these scriptures that will turn it in its head.

Here is an excerpt from the page. He starts with a quick quote from revelations and then goes through Matthew 24.


"And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men." Revelation 13:13 How did the United States make fire come down out of heaven in the sight of men?

The answer will amaze you.

As confirmation let us look up the word "heaven" in the Biblical Greek. It comes from the same word that "uranium" comes from. Now let us retranslate this verse in this direction. "He does great signs in that he makes fire out of Uranium in the sight of mankind."

This verse definitely confirms the identity of the second beast. The United States was the country, which accomplished the feat of bringing fire out of uranium, or the atomic bomb, on earth in the sight of men. The next verse calls this a miracle. Why is the splitting of the atom a symbol of the greatest miracle that Jesus ever performed?

The greatest miracle of Jesus was the resurrection. After his supposed death he was placed in the tomb of matter. On his rebirth to eternal life the illusionary tomb of matter that held his true life split open and released the living Christ...."


Read the rest :www.synthesisnet.com...
Alternately here: www.freeread.com...

Orthodox Christians will probably howl at this but let see you defeat the logic first of all.

Some more links for further insight:

Abomination of desolation www.freeread.com...
The Sign of the Son of man www.freeread.com...
Fire from heaven www.freeread.com...


edit on 24-1-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by christina-66
 


But this generation has something going for it the others did not. Matthew 24-14 has been fulfilled.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


1938 discovery in New Guinea.



The most startling discovery took place on 4 August 1938, when Richard Archbold discovered the Grand Valley of the Baliem River which had 50,000 yet-undiscovered Stone Age farmers living in orderly villages. The people, known as the Dani, were the last society of its size to make first contact with the rest of the world.


No real nations left to find out there. Also with the rebirth of Israel in 1948 would mean the prophecy is fulfilled.

The Apocalypse is on a clock now.

Also to defeat the logic of the posts by Hawkiye you just have to refer to the timing elements in the prophesies. Matthew 24 defines it's events happening after the event of 24-14. That did not happen in the first century AD. Rather it happened between 1945 to 1948. The events of the first century AD were predicted in Luke 21. Hawkiye source is not considering the timing inherent to the prophesies.

Though I will admit that the fire from heaven page is interesting. In getting it wrong he may have some correct details.
edit on 24-1-2011 by ntech because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by curious7
Ahh thanks for explaining, I think we need more like you on this forum to decipher the scriptures so that it makes sense to us non religious types.

Doesn't that sound like a scary prospect? A section of Islam forcing those two things into being to see if it's true? What if it isn't? We'd have yet another pointless war started out of curiosity. What if it is? Mass panic the world over, people falling over themselves to convert to a religion quickly to avoid being judged badly.

I'm not a diehard christian or any religious type, i've just got A believe in something like the heavens or even a God (Moment).
But if this things would really happen, and people desperatly try to convert to a religion, i don't think it will help them in what way around. Its not about believing the religion, or praying the religion, its all about being a good human being, like respect for your fellow humans, respect for your planet (that keeps you alive), respect for the Animals that also keep nature in balance and alive.. It doesn't matter if you are religious and going to church every sunday or whatever. It's all about your own doings, like karma, if you do good you attract good, and visa versa. So if you keep hurting people around you, then you will be hurt. If you love and respect the ones (or things) around you, then you will be loved and respected.

I'm 23 yrs old, i'm not a person that goes to church, i've had some religious classes in my pre-school/middle-school years, i don't read the bible when i get bored. I've had my share of the bible in religious classes. But this is my believe, and i think it is much more human then any religion out here on earth. It's like living on this planet it should be your own choice to believe in what you believe, dont let people force you into believing things you don't even understand..

(OT)
I do know and read about Revelations some times, i find it really intriguing to read about. I do take it with a grain of salt like most things. But this book has some real good info in it, and if the End of the Age is real and is comming, i think that what is being said in Revelations will be the best guide trough the Ending of this Age.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by ntech
 



Also to defeat the logic of the posts by Hawkiye you just have to refer to the timing elements in the prophesies. Matthew 24 defines it's events happening after the event of 24-14. That did not happen in the first century AD. Rather it happened between 1945 to 1948. The events of the first century AD were predicted in Luke 21. Hawkiye source is not considering the timing inherent to the prophesies.



I don't follow you here. Are you referring to verses 24 and 14? Are you saying the events have not happened yet? Can you elaborate on why you feel the time line is not correct? So I can better understand you.

I think verse 15 that speaks of the man of fierce countenance who would try and destroy the holy people (Jews) bolsters his time line argument, as he says who is the only one who tried to destroy them and almost succeeded? Hitler.

Also in verse 30 is states "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Why would all the people mourn at he sign of the Son of man in heaven (uranium)? Because of the death and destruction of the Atomic bomb even the blood thirsty nations have not set another oe off since. I think people feel this is all going to be like a one day event or something. The sign has been given the old age ended and the new age is here. But everyone thinks things will change over night. Their is still much energy left from the old Piscean age and it will take a another hundred years. to dissipate it. Christ is said to have been the beginning of the Piscean age but he was born 200 years after the the age had started when the old energies had dissipated enough.

reply to post by ntech
 



The Abomination of desolation refers to not knowing the true God. having no connection to the light within. Worshipping an outside god or men professing to be God like the Ceaser during Roman times. If you refused to acknowledge Ceasar as God in those days you would be killed. That was indeed an abomination. Even so in modern times if you do not have a true connection to the God/light/source within your house is desolate. So there is an esoteric meaning as well. Also the Atomic bomb and the death and destruction of millions it causes is certainly an outward occurrence of an abomination that causes untold desolation. Why else would all the earth mourn when it happened?


I would point out that per the prophecy it's predicting that Jerusalem is one day going to be completely controlled by Jews again. Has yet to happen. But it could be anytime now.


IMO the Jews already control Jerusalem and have since for over 30 years. Yes Palestinians live there but the Jews are definitely firmly in control. It seems you are reading this to mean they must rid Jerusalem of all but the Jews.

I think we all have a tendency to interpret things literally on the face but it usually leads us off the mark IMO.




edit on 24-1-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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The reason scripture is so much different in opinion from one person to another is this. You take 1 verse that makes no sense to the average person, 10 people can translate the meaning differently and if something does "come up" then everyone thinks the one person who came the closest is the person with the best translation. It is very simple to be mis-interpreted and mis-understood.



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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To answer your question it's Yes. I am referring to Matthew 24-14. If you look at the prophecy it's meant to be that everything after verse 14 falls after that event.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Why is that? Well, what are the 3 questions being asked?

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Verse 14 is answering the first part of the question. "When shall these things be?" Verse 15 is the start of the answer to the part of the question "What is the sign of the end of the world?"

So why cannot Hitler have fulfilled the prophecy of verse 15? If he had it would have been the end of the world. There was no Abomination of Desolation as defined in Daniel 11-31 which is the prophecy he is referring to.

WW2 simply was not the end of the world. However it was in a sense a preview of coming attractions.

2nd question. Answer, no. The Jews are not in total control of Jerusalem as of yet. The Muslims still have token control over some of the neighborhoods and the Temple Mount. So far all we've seen is changes from one time of the Gentiles to another. Until they seize total control of Jerusalem the times of the Gentiles is still running.



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by ntech
 


Whether we make it so or not, what will be will be.





Peace to you my friend



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by ntech
 


Ok, can someone explain something to me, please?! As I've said many times on here, I was married to a preacher for 14 years, finally divorced and got away from the corrupt churches I knew (not saying this about ALL churches.. just FYI
) and I've never full understood the meaning of this verse:



19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!


I'm not a fan of the KJV. I've also made that rather clear here on ATS, but let's just say, for the purpose of this question, that this verse (and the rest of it) is 100% legit. What is the significance of being pregnant or nursing a baby "in those days?"

Much appreciation to anyone that can explain that. If it's something obvious that I just haven't managed to wrap my wee brain around over the years, I apologize in advance. TIA!



posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by gemineye
 


That's really quite simple. When the abomination of desolation event happens it will be immediate and shocking to the unaware. And Jesus Christ is recommending that if you are in Jerusalem and the surrounding area to run like hell because the antichrist's forces will be out to collect everyone for a mass pledge of allegiance and application of his mark. See Revelation 12 and 13.

A pregnant woman or one with small children would have a very hard time if they chose to flee. Several days to a week or two on foot. Without supplies. Being chased by hostile forces and police. Being called traitors to the nation. Etc. Also they would most likely be heading for Jordan which would be a independent untouched nation throughout the apocalypse per Daniel.

Also this is the times of Revelation 8 through 19 as well. The trumpets, thunders, and bowl or vial judgements occur in this 3 and 1/2 year timespan. You don't want to be on the wrong side in this war. least you wind up lumped in with the enemies of God.

So here is the quick and simple description of what happens during his 3.5 year reign per Daniel.

Daniel 11.
After the fall of the first 2 kings of the north.

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him.
26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.
27 And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.
28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Verse 41 is talking about modern day Jordan as a possible haven to the Jewish/Christian/Other refugess of Israel who recognize the Antichrist for what he is. However there is an event that precedes the abomination that could work as a 2 minute warning. When the news breaks out that his navy suffered a major loss in the Mediterranean. From the ships of Chittim/Cyprus which would be Islamic sea forces in the area. He is fighting the Caliphate of the middle east or kingdom of the south in Daniel 11.



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by ntech
 


Thanks for that! I had actually thought along such lines before, but it seemed too simple and I thought there had to be more to it than that. I suppose that the simplest answer is usually the best.



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