Whats preventing Jared Loughner from pleading insanity?

Simple question. Anyone have an answer?

reply to post by The_Zomar


Because he is too insane to know he is insane.

Either that or it is an act.

We had a guy here who did the eye widening thing too.

I dont believe he has been arraigned yet.

So i guess the arraignment being in the future is the first stepping stone here

I think he lost that plea when he shot a member of congress, and he is probably still being tortured now and in solitary confinement where his mental illness is probably going to get worse.

On a serious note though,

I do believe that the insanity plea is in the works. I recently read an article that I linked to in another thread that explains the possible defense that JLL and his attorney will play out in court.

The insanity defense will have to be accepted by the court, and following the Hinckley case in the 80's the laws were drastically changed to make it harder to use this defense. The first obstacle will being evaluated by psych professionals to see if he really was insane at the time of the crime. This will happen in pretrail hearings.

Let me see if I can find the article, I think it was in National REview.

reply to post by The_Zomar

In Coffman v US, the United States Courts of Appeal held:

"Insanity means such a perverted and deranged condition of the mental and moral faculties as to render a person incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong, or unconscious at the time of the nature of his act, or though conscious of his conduct and able to distinguish between right and wrong, and knowing that the act is wrong, yet his will - by which is meant to the governing power of his mind - has been involuntarily so completely destroyed that his actions are not subject to it but are beyond his control."

In US v Monroe, the Court added:

"A defendant is insane within the meaning of the law if, at the time of the alleged criminal conduct, as a result of mental disease or defect, he lacked substantial capacity to conform his conduct to the requirements of the law or to appreciate the wrongfulness of his conduct."

So, these will be the questions that will need to be answered, to determine whether or not insanity is a viable defense.

I don't know if he has plead or not yet. I have not seen that he has. But if he doesn't plead insanity it will be because he truly felt that he was doing the right thing, or he knows it was wrong and his pleasure and pride will keep hom from admitting that he didn't know better. Maybe a combination of both. I do think he looked very proud and pleased in his mug shot. ugh.

Theres no doubt he is insane, but I would be disappointed if he pleaded insanity. He deserves nothing short of a life sentence for what he did to that little girl and others. If you are going to take out someone for political reasons, whether it was right or wrong (Isn't it always wrong?) there is absolutely no need to hit innocent people. Especially Children.

One thing that's safe to say is he won't receive the death penalty. (insanity)

Originally posted by Redevilfan09
I think he lost that plea when he shot a member of congress, and he is probably still being tortured now and in solitary confinement where his mental illness is probably going to get worse.

edit on 23-1-2011 by Redevilfan09 because: typo

Jurisprudence doesn't just go out the window when a member of congress is the victim.

We still have some due process in this country.

As for the rest...

Really? Got anything to back up the notion of Loughner is being tortured?

reply to post by projectvxn


His mug shot shows he obviously was roughed up, either by those who subdued him or by the arresting officers.

As far as torture goes... Other than isolation he is not being tortured in any way. He has access to council and they'd be screaming it on the front page of every paper and on the top of every newscast if a guard or agent laid an errant finger on Loughner.

Addressing the OP... Loughner can motion for an insanity plea all he wants. It is my opinion that it will be denied after psychiatric evaluations are done. The threshold for an insanity defense is pretty stringent and just being aware of the consequences of your act is enough to preclude it.

In short, unless Loughner literally could not understand that he was firing bullets, and that bullets injure and kill, then insanity is out the window.

~Heff

Originally posted by The_Zomar
Simple question. Anyone have an answer?

My understanding is that based on his writings he planned the shooting and seemed to know that what he was doing was wrong. He will not win an insanity defense.

The "writings" I am referring to are items that were apparently found in his bedroom. I have no sources or proof of that. I think I may have heard in on Fox, so it was probably a lie anyway...lol

reply to post by Hefficide


I believe his face was smashed into the ground by the bystanders who reported him saying "ouch you're hurting me"...Or something to that effect.


As to the insanity plea...

Yeah, he's gonna fry. He admittedly planned ahead...Even though he's very mentally ill, he does know right from wrong.

I find it hard to believe he's even been indicted. The evidence in the public domain suggests he wasn't even the shooter. There are associations between Giffords' YouTube channel and the channel said by some to be Loughner's. The location where this happened wasn't even Tuscon, it was an unincorporated township, basically like a little enclave with private law enforcement and medical crews. There's a lot of conflicting witness testimony and testimony that suggests Loughner was just a bystander, that he was standing in line when the shooter came out of the Safeway. There's also the connection between "Zamudio" and "Colonel Badger", who look enough alike they could be father and son, and "Zamudio" of course had a concealed firearm on the scene. All in all, if where the police I'd be looking elsewhere for suspects. I also think most of the "victims" are hoaxes. When obvious doubt starts to pile onto a story like this I just assume it's all bull#. I can't say I know for sure anyone was even killed, it could all be a gigantic hoax.