I think you should all be pleased that you have got the attention of someone. I don't think you should attack ATS for this, i know its frustrating having threads closed, but in this case, secrets about the inner working of college Fraternity will damage the group. Still, you should be very happy you've struck a nerve with them, ATS is probably being discussed by them .
In the old College fraternity secrets thread, so many members worked together to discuss the inner workings, which is excellent rituals,etc were even found and brought up then you got the attention of fraternity, so overall you guys done a good job .

Weak.

If you don't want the world to know what you do behind closed doors, then keep that information private. If the world finds out about it, you should have done a better job.

Shame on ATS.

I'm an officer of a national fraternity and we have no problem with any message boards. No Greek organization really cares. You don't see the masons calling ATS up and asking them to take stuff down. The reasoning doesn't exist. Case closed.

I've yet to see any proof that a fraternity HQ demanded the removal of the other thread. That doesn't sound like something a national office would do. They've got way bigger stuff to worry about. And besides, just about all rituals are listed on Usenet.

Also, I disagree that having a bunch of non-initiates know fraternity secrets damages the organization. The information is out of context and generally meaningless to non-members.

I have no idea why the thread was closed, but nothing I've heard yet sounds reasonable.

It does suprise me that the thread was removed. While some organizations take their rituals with alarming seriousness, I didn't really believe ATS would pay them any heed and remove the thread. Kudos to ATS for respecting the organizations' wishes.


[edit on 13-7-2004 by numberII]

I'm not going to continually repsond to this thread, but as it is obviously raising so many questions and comments, and as I have been running ATS for eight years now, I think I have quite a good understanding when an honest legitimate request for removal of information is made.

An official representative of A fraternity came across a thread wherein a person was offering to trade a trade secret in exchange for more related information. One of the societies that person listed just so happened to come across ATS and ask for the information to be removed.

Why should I go into the debate of legality when it was plain and obvious that fraternity had the right to request information be removed. What is the point of taking the risk of technicalities in a court of law....

I trashed the thread and would do so again.

The reason so much of this information is available on newsgroups and usenet servers is simply because it is difficult to obtain a point of contact for removal. AboveTopSecret.com is a long-standing and respected organisation, and my contact information is readily available if needed.

Our motto may be to deny ignorance, but I have no intention of incurring high legal costs and potential imprisonment when simple mutual co-operation can disolve a situation.

Good call, Simon. By the way, do you remember way before this site became so huge and commercialized, a little boy asking you for the source of your information for your article on the STAR group?

I agree, after all it is Simon's Arse in the sling if #e happens, so he has every right in the world to cover it. Thanks for the reply I think everyone will put down the torches and pitch-forks now and go along happy as usual. BTW thanks for providing such a great site, you have given me a new-found excuse to dodge work at all cost! Now if only I could find one of those damned rings everything would be swell.

The potential for a lawsuit, no matter how unfounded that lawsuit is, can be financially devastating to an organisation like ATS. I don't imagine an out-pouring of support for the "ATS Civil Defense Fund" will occur if ATS goes to trial over something posted here.

On a side note, secret information can often only be found through speed and dedication to a cause. It's never going to be handed out freely. Unique learning opportunities present themselves daily to perceptive individuals. Don't expect these opportunities to wait, glean what you can and keep moving.

--J1m

wow. I cannot believe this forum folded to a legal threat that has no merit. Well, at least we all know this forum will never have any real information on it. Someone will just threaten and it will be removed. I guess all threads on this forum that are allowed to continue should be considered false information.

As a business major I can tell you the definintion of a trade secret: A device, method or formula that gives one an advantage over the competition and which must therefore be kept secret if it is to be of special value.

A college fraternity ritual does not fall into the category of a trade secret, and would be thrown out of any court.

Edit: If you win a lawsuit then the other side will have to pay for time and legal costs. No fraternity would ever attempt to take this to court because the rituals themselves would have to come out as evidence and because they know that they would lose in the end.








[edit on 14-7-2004 by zerotime]

Zerotime, you hit the nail on the head. I've been trying to explain this for sometime. I'm just surprised this thread hasn't ended yet. Anyway, as a lawyer and an officer of a national fraternity, I can tell everyone, that is exactly the reason no fraternity would sue over their ritual. It would forever be in the annals of caselaw forever.

I remember a story an old alumnus told me back when I was in undergrad. They would fued with another fraternity, small stuff, stealing trophies or mascots and stuff. One year, while on spring break, the fraternity brother's of the alumnus came back to find the entire ritual set up on the front lawn of the fraternity house and copies of the ritual spread all over campus. It didn't matter, it didn't take away from the mystique of the fraternity ritual, plus it really only means anything to the members anyway. Did they sue? No. Did they threaten to sue? No. Nothing happened. Except the continuation of the fued.

Ah, who cares?

The info is still out there.

No need to get bent out of shape of trivial information like fraternity rituals.

Good call,

Can't argue the point of closing the thread down, but we can argue the point of the Frat house calling you in the first place.

Jeez, having childish acts exposed for all the world to see must be pretty serious. I'm gonna have to ask anyone who sees me playing on a kiddy swing to not take photos of me from now on.

[edit on 27-7-2004 by numberII]

[edit on 27-7-2004 by numberII]

Christ, what a mass debate that was, all over a wiggly fingered handshake and a round of happy chappy butt slappy clappy Not worth risking legal action when the prosecuting lawyer prolly drinks at the same frat bar and the judge turns out to be the Grande Poo-bah himself.
Table tennis anybody?

[edit on 30-7-2004 by Zero Point]

What a feed for their own ego making out their so special their ceremonies & rituals can’t be discussed on an open forum lmao

AFAIK, the rituals aren't evil or anything like that. However, some parts of it might sound dumb to outsiders (and even to some insiders). At least with sororities, most of the stuff was put together years ago by college women, with help from some professors. This means that some of the secret mottoes are amazing in their banality. (Sorry, no Da Vinci Code or Illuminati stuff here.) At least with sororities, initiation seems to boil down to, "OK, we're going to let you be a member now. Do you promise to keep this secret? Good. Here are our secret motto/symbols/handshake/whatever. Congratulations, you're now one of us." Of course, it's a little more ceremonial than that, but you get the idea.

At least with sororities, most of the stuff was put together years ago by college women, with help from some professors.

Panty raid on Py Kappa Delta

Originally posted by SimonGray
I apologise for having to remove the College Fraternity Secrets topic, but I have been contacted by representatives of fraternities recently asking that information relating to their secret initiation ceremonies and rituals be removed.

They have legal cause to raise this concern, and as such I must comply.

Please be careful what you post in future. Despite AboveTopSecret.com's purpose of open alternative discussion, we must still comply with the law.

This explains, why this will be my first and last post in the "Secret Societes" category.
How can anyone share an idea, when it's ....erased!??