China's Crackdown in Hong Kong (One China, Two Bad Systems)

Originally posted by drunk

Originally posted by superpyz
In british time, HongKong is only a colony. While,now HongKong is part of China, they have their right back, why can not they vote?

Voting in China is much like voting in Iraq under Hussein why bother. The party elite. the politburo as it were controlls everything, picks the leaders and sets policy. HK under the british did not get to pick the governor, but had rights any free person would expect. China simply has not lived up to its bargain..... It not surprising, but sad nonetheless. Im surprised that they even allow people like Drunk to speak thier minds at all. That Im sure is next.

Originally posted by FredT
Voting in China is much like voting in Iraq under Hussein why bother. The party elite. the politburo as it were controlls everything, picks the leaders and sets policy. HK under the british did not get to pick the governor, but had rights any free person would expect. China simply has not lived up to its bargain..... It not surprising, but sad nonetheless. Im surprised that they even allow people like Drunk to speak thier minds at all. That Im sure is next.

Great observation, though not true. The problem is that the Voting in US is no different.

Do you know how easy the electronic voting can be tempered? Do you trust to have your vote counted by some same as Enron big donner for Bush and close friend to Cheney?

Very likely your right to vote will be cancelled this year. No election, do not have a heart attack please. :LOL:

Originally posted by zcheng
Great observation, though not true. The problem is that the Voting in US is no different.
Do you know how easy the electronic voting can be tempered? Do you

BTW, no one in California is using Electronic voting. Let me ask you this who were the canidates for premier during your last election?

Originally posted by FredT
BTW, no one in California is using Electronic voting. Let me ask you this who were the canidates for premier during your last election?

We do not need the election show, we have a system to ensure long term plan and growth. In US, it is just the circus for the rich and powerful to pick their representative. I guess you still value a lot for your right to vote.

Why only 20% eligible US people vote? Whether you vote or not does not change a dime. That is the cruel reality in US, face it.

Originally posted by zcheng
We do not need the election show, we have a system to ensure long term plan and growth. In US, it is just the circus for the rich and powerful to pick their representative. I guess you still value a lot for your right to vote.
Why only 20% eligible US people vote? Whether you vote or not does not change a dime. That is the cruel reality in US, face it.

So you are saying the people of China has no choice? Not surprising. The voter turnout is higher than that, but not were I would like to see it. There are a variety of reasons. It depends on the issue etc. And voting does make changes. We recently ousted a governor that had made his fair share of mistakes. He was an entrenched well funded political operator. In your system he would have been dragged out back, a bullet put in his head and a family billed for the expence......

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by zcheng
We do not need the election show, we have a system to ensure long term plan and growth. In US, it is just the circus for the rich and powerful to pick their representative. I guess you still value a lot for your right to vote.
Why only 20% eligible US people vote? Whether you vote or not does not change a dime. That is the cruel reality in US, face it.

So you are saying the people of China has no choice? Not surprising.

Different political system has differnt process to elect their leader. In this particular case, I would rather have the current system in China.

I am not saying it is better than US, but it is better for current level of development in China. The system has lots of problem to solve. First of there is not sufficient mechanism for checking and balance. You sure know it is difficult otherwise there will be Enron, and the untimely death of Senator Wellstone.

What China lacks is the rule of law. It is progressing, but not as fast as I would prefer. More corrupt officials are bring to limelight and punished. I have confidence that China will have good mechanism to greatly reduce the corruption now existing in many branches of the institution.

We recently ousted a governor that had made his fair share of mistakes. He was an entrenched well funded political operator. In your system he would have been dragged out back, a bullet put in his head and a family billed for the expence......

Enron bankcrupted CA, and Davis was pressuring to sue. Your great system ousted him and installed Enron backed Terminator. Now no more suit to regain the loss of CA people. Your wonderful and proud system. :LOL:

Originally posted by FredT
Im surprised that they even allow people like Drunk to speak thier minds at all. That Im sure is next.

What do you mean this?

Originally posted by drunk

Originally posted by FredT
Im surprised that they even allow people like Drunk to speak thier minds at all. That Im sure is next.

What do you mean this?

You are in Hong Kong are you not? With the censorship of the internet going on in the mainland, wont they come your way soon?

Censorship here in Hong Kong is not as strict as on the Mainland besides if it was they would have come to get me along time ago.

I dont hope people in my country could vote as they wish in the next 20 years, but I do know is we will vote as we wish in the future.

I never vote any governmental official. Because the government dont need us, they assign mayor to my city because they think this guy could handle us well.
Whatever US system is, you can put anything u want in public, like "Impeach Bush" But in China, I cant put post like "Impeach XXX", because I'll under arrested. Once a time, one of my relative's friend to protest his unemployment, then he was arrested. So what we should do is let government change their mind and give us right to protest and real vote.

We see the problem so we could resolve, while some guys only know propaganda. That;s really ridiculous.

Originally posted by superpyz
I dont hope people in my country could vote as they wish in the next 20 years, but I do know is we will vote as we wish in the future.

I believe in about 15 years, we will be have some better form of election, when the people can take account of corrupt official. A better check and balance mechanism to supervise the government official.

Good to know you are trying to bring good things to China. In terms of political system, learn what elements of US is good for China and what is bad. One thing to keep in mind is that China should refuse those things or ideas that destablize China, otherwise China will disintegrate.

Do not forget the bitter lessons of the 60-70's in cultural revolution, all students and workers were marching and protesting.

I have great sympathy for those lost their job, and believe our government can and should do more to help them. But if they are not trying to find job, and refuse to work simply because they do not like the job. I will say they deserve what they get.

A person may become a millionair overnight by good luck, but No nation can be powerful and strong overnight. Let's work together to bring good things to China, and strengthen our beloved Motherland.

hum...i am from HK,chinese...
just like what drunk said...1 country 2 Systems is actually a joke...
DengXiaoPing said what the "will not change in 50 years" is a lie,just 7 years,many think change!

if not the parade(500000 people) at 7.1 2003,HK is already been to autocratic!!


and i think China gov(Communist Party) not let HK go is beacuse (may be) they want to opposition with Freemason

[edit on 13-7-2004 by Alchemist]

Originally posted by Alchemist
hum...i am from HK,chinese...
just like what drunk said...1 country 2 Systems is actually a joke...
DengXiaoPing said what the "will not change in 50 years" is a lie,just 7 years,many think change!

if not the parade(500000 people) at 7.1 2003,HK is already been to autocratic!!

Tell me what is changed in Hong Kong?

There is no direct election of Governor under British colonial rule. It is the same still. I think more officials are elected directly now by HK people. If you do not like it, let us know

DengXiaoPing said "will not change in 50 years"
that mean 1 country 2 Systems(and freedom, human rights) will not change in 50 years,not it's lie clearly wa can see~

//I think more officials are elected directly now by HK people.//
if you mean people who have high-level in the gov....
answer is no...as i know the cabinet of gov is from appoint.......

Originally posted by Alchemist
DengXiaoPing said "will not change in 50 years"
that mean 1 country 2 Systems(and freedom, human rights) will not change in 50 years,not it's lie clearly wa can see~

If no freedom, you think you can organize a large demonstration? You have freedom here, what happened in Georgia in the G-8 meeting. State Emergency declared, most protestors were too scared to test. I guess that is the freedom you like.

//I think more officials are elected directly now by HK people.//
if you mean people who have high-level in the gov....
answer is no...as i know the cabinet of gov is from appoint.......

I know more legislators are elected directly now. I do not think you are living in HK, just relay what you hear from Fox, the fair and balanced.

Please ask drunk whether there is more rights for the people now than under British colonial rule.

Tell me what was possible before, and what is not possible now.

Originally posted by zcheng
Tell me what is changed in Hong Kong?

What has changed? They are now under the leadership of a regime that has brutaly repressed its citizens. A regime that has lied to the people of Hong Kong with thier "2 systems" crap. There is a side benifit to all of this. The people of Taiwan have seen what the promises of China means. Now more than ever, I feel than independance is not just a maybe, but now a question of when?

I do not think you are living in HK, just relay what you hear from Fox, the fair and balanced.

No~i am living in HK~~you can ask drunk~

some pic i take at 1.7.2004~
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Originally posted by Alchemist
No~i am living in HK~~you can ask drunk~

Ok, Great. Now Answer me, the question I asked before:
Tell me what was possible before, and what is not possible now?

You picture only show HK people has the right to protest.

Originally posted by FredT
What has changed? They are now under the leadership of a regime that has brutaly repressed its citizens. A regime that has lied to the people of Hong Kong with thier "2 systems" crap. There is a side benifit to all of this. The people of Taiwan have seen what the promises of China means. Now more than ever, I feel than independance is not just a maybe, but now a question of when?

You are not Chinese and not living in HK. Let those in HK speak for themselves.

Ok, Great. Now Answer me, the question I asked before:
Tell me what was possible before, and what is not possible now?

You picture only show HK people has the right to protest.

we protest the gov is because we think our freedom of speech is beening threaten
you think i can tell you if my freedom of speech is already lose?