The Biggest Lie You All Believe

Everyone, everyone, everyone on this site is caught up in the differences between liberal and conservative, and yes, there are differences. However, you've all been made to believe that the differences between conservative and liberal are so great that they can't be overcome, and that the issues that divide the two are the most important political issues. This is simply a lie.

Issues like gay marriage, religion, immigration, etc are important issues, for sure, and political discourse over issues like this will always exist in government. But if I asked you what the most important issue is, the people on this site would respond overwhelmingly with:

"The government is corrupt. Congress (or whatever your form of the legislative branch is) doesn't work for the people anymore, they work for rich lobbyists. Corporations have taken over our country."

Conservatives and liberals overwhelmingly agree on this issue!! The big issue, the one that is the core of the reason we're here, is that the government is corrupt and the people are the ones at a disadvantage because of it. I went to a Martin Luther King rally at my Capitol Building today, with a big group of hippie peace activists, and do you know what we were chanting?
"Money for health and education, not for banks and corporations"
"Hey hey, ho ho, corporations have got to go"
We went to the capitol steps to ask our governor and state congresspeople to not cut the budget in a way that helped corporations and hurt the people.

From a liberal perspective, conservatives cater to corporations. From a conservative perspective, liberals are increasing the size of an already corrupt government which caters to corporations.

But it's easy to see that the liberals and conservatives have the same main concern!!!

So, the reason I'm writing this thread is because I see a lot of misunderstandings between the two idealogies. Liberals on here rally against the Tea Party; the majority that is conservative on here rally against the liberals and their increase of the size of government. But, the idea that we disagree on the major issue is a FALLACY. Yes, we disagree on things like gay rights, abortion, death penalty, but we're together on trying to make governments a medium for the PEOPLE to discuss these issues, and when the government is corrupt like it is, these issues are never SETTLED. We want a place where it is safe and legitimate to discuss whether gays should be allowed to get married, and at the moment, we don't have that. We have an unsafe climate where saying what you believe makes people threaten you, on both sides of the aisle. And the people in charge perpetrate this dangerous political climate, knowing that our divided-ness is their power.

So, my plea to ATS: stop insulting liberals. Stop insulting Tea Partiers. Stop insulting people for their political beliefs. It's irritating, it's stupid, and it's exactly what they want. We're not all that different, you and I, regardless of the fact that I'm a hardcore liberal and you may be a hardcore conservative. I'm ready to put my idealogy behind me in order to create a safe, welcoming political climate where we can discuss why I think gay people should be allowed to be married and you think they shouldn't. But before we get into those issues, let's fight the real enemy - the banks and big corporations who control our government to the detriment of WE THE PEOPLE!!

Thanks.

I gave you an S&F because your heart is in the right place. However, I do not believe most liberals would ever accept less government. They want the nanny state, and opposing that is equally important to ending corporate influence on government.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776

We 'liberals' are ultimately people too. People who recognize something is wrong and our nation needs to change. Does this mean we are all lazy and want to mooch off of the government? Absolutely not.

However, I am finished with that rant and agree that we need to stop the division between the political parties and the whole "conservative vs. liberal" thing.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


I disagree; I don't want the government telling me what to do, and I'm a liberal. I think that conservatives and liberals both want freedom and both want to have a legit government; it's the main reason most liberals don't want a ban on gay marriage; I mean, they love gays, as do I, hehe, but the biggest point is that they don't want a restriction such as this imposed on them by the government, because they don't want people to be restricted for something that doesn't affect anyone else. Similarly, liberals don't like the idea of being forced not to smoke marijuana, not because they think it's good, but because someone smoking marijuana doesn't hurt anyone else, and liberals don't like the idea of having the government put restrictions on something that doesn't affect others. So many people I know, who are liberal, rant about the police being out of control. I believe we're both in a similar place, and that we need a non-corrupt government to reconcile our different ideas about the same goal.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
I gave you an S&F because your heart is in the right place. However, I do not believe most liberals would ever accept less government. They want the nanny state, and opposing that is equally important to ending corporate influence on government.

It's not the volume of government that matters. It's the quality. As for "nanny state," well, it's preferable to the social darwinist dream found on the right.

There is the right and the left. Then there is the kook right and the kook left who have taken over both sides with their insane rhetoric and lobbyist brethren. We the people need to push the kooks off the cliff if we have any hope.

Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
There is the right and the left. Then there is the kook right and the kook left who have taken over both sides with their insane rhetoric and lobbyist brethren. We the people need to push the kooks off the cliff if we have any hope.

I agree. As liberal as I am, I can't stand the extreme liberals who can't open their minds to other perspectives. I also can't stand the extreme conservatives who can't open their minds to other perspectives. It's not about which side they are on, but about the ability to reflect on their own beliefs and decide for themselves what they think is right, rather than just listening to the talking heads and saying whatever they say... the talking heads are out to divide us, but when we reflect, we realize that on the inside, we're all united towards the same goal

It doesn't matter what title you want to fall under, whether it be Liberal or Conservative, part of the left or part of the right we need to stop pitting ourselves against ourselves. The US is on a downhill slide and the victims are you and myself. Us. No one else will have to pay for this decline.

Can't we all just get along? We are standing separate but falling together.

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive

We are standing separate but falling together.

That sums our whole political system up in one sentence, and I love it. Thanks for saying this.

Well said OP, but see the people posting replies are still bickering back and forth.

I say disband all political parties, and put a restraining order barring lobbyist from the capitol. even that probably wouldn't work.

The talking heads are taking marching orders to divide the country whenever possible and the politicians too. Class envy is the main cog in this game they play along with racism. Keep folks minds off what's really going on as they rob us blind and laugh while doing it.

reply to post by spacekc929


Thank You for going out today and standing up for us. Your family.

"Money for health and education, not for banks and corporations"
"Hey hey, ho ho, corporations have got to go"

Again, Thank You.

reply to post by watchitburn


I think that it would be most effective if we:
a) prevented any office holder from being elected multiple terms (because then they cater to lobbyists)
b) prevented anyone running for office or already in office to receive money from anyone but individuals - corporations, organizations, and unions are tipping the scale away from what the individual wants

But to be fair, we can't stop lobbyists. But, I think we can stop them from having any power

In my opinion, the biggest lie that's ever laid on us is that TPTB lead us to believe we know something about something, but in fact we know nothing about the sh1t that actually going on out there.

reply to post by spacekc929


Not me.

STH

If you look back, this is one of the things that we were trying to get away from when America was made. There were parties back in England. George Washington even said that parties were one of the reason that the Parliament of the time was corrupt.

When George and the others wrote the country into being, it was not meant for parties. George Washington made a comment right after he was elected. He could see that the people were already seperating again and mentioned he was heartfelt and dissappointed in the people.

reply to post by spacekc929


My personal opinion is that the 2 party system works wonders in an era where communication is limited and becoming completely informed on the issues is difficult / impossible for the average person with the time restraints of supporting a family and living a life. The system allows for people to pick a side and level theeir votes accordingly when they haven't been able to complete the personal research.

We live in a new world. We are in the information age. The average person can now do the research, learn the truths, engage in lively open debate to solidify their stances all while taking care of the children and doing the dishes.

Perhaps the time for representatives is nearing it's end? It is theoretically possible to utilize new technologies so every person can have a vote and a true majority will make the decisions rather than a party appointed individual with his own agenda.

Like it or not we will need an ID equal in security to a drivers licence to access the internet soon, and once this system is in place it can be used for relatively inexpensive voting. I would personally leave the Executive and Judicial branches as-is (with minor modifications) but change the role of congress to a debating group whose final vote is determined by the electronic votes of their constituents.

Originally posted by Jinglelord
reply to post by spacekc929

 

My personal opinion is that the 2 party system works wonders in an era where communication is limited and becoming completely informed on the issues is difficult / impossible for the average person with the time restraints of supporting a family and living a life. The system allows for people to pick a side and level theeir votes accordingly when they haven't been able to complete the personal research.

We live in a new world. We are in the information age. The average person can now do the research, learn the truths, engage in lively open debate to solidify their stances all while taking care of the children and doing the dishes.

Perhaps the time for representatives is nearing it's end? It is theoretically possible to utilize new technologies so every person can have a vote and a true majority will make the decisions rather than a party appointed individual with his own agenda.

Like it or not we will need an ID equal in security to a drivers licence to access the internet soon, and once this system is in place it can be used for relatively inexpensive voting. I would personally leave the Executive and Judicial branches as-is (with minor modifications) but change the role of congress to a debating group whose final vote is determined by the electronic votes of their constituents.

I wonder how I'd feel about that. You are right that it is theoretically possible... I am not sure what I believe to be the best form of government anymore, honestly, since Republic has seemed to fail both us and the Romans and everyone else, and Direct Democracy leads to mob rule, and Monarchy obviously leads to tyranny... so, yeah. I don't know how I feel about that, and I don't know how I feel about any other government either. It's a tough question. The two party system, I feel, makes people complacent - they can just choose one or the other without having to do too much research, when having multiple parties would force people to think about their votes, as well as allowing for people to vote for people who they fully agree with, rather than people they just partly agree with.

Originally posted by stopthathurts
reply to post by spacekc929

 

Not me.

STH

that's good. I meant 'all' in more of a 'a vast majority of you' and I mainly posted this because I was sick of liberals getting dissed on in threads and then the liberals responding by dissing the conservatives.

There are few problem with liberals in general. They can't take the responsibility for anything and they're always acting like a child. They're preaching equality while they're usually the most racist people. They're always using double standards, hiding the truth away, because if no one speaks about it, it never happened. Liberals are selfish, arrogant liars, nothing more. And if someone is telling what is the problem in general, they're always pointing at others (In the U.S. for Tea Party members. A guy is shooting down few people, it was the Tea Party members. If an asteroid hit the planet, it was the Tea Party members. Whatever happens, it's never your fault. It's always the fault of others, while the problems are usually originating from your very own behavior.).

I don't know how you're calling liberals in the U.S., but here in Europe we have a nice term for them with a reason: Mentally ill.

Don't worry. Conservatives also has their faults. And in politics, both are the same. I agree with some points, but please don't ask me to love liberals whose right now are trying to clean some minority after they've killed three girl in my country and the libs are trying to tell us, noooooooooo, it was an accident. No crime happened. These idiots are usually defending criminals, especially if a minority is killing someone from the majority.