It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by scratchmane
Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
God makes His own standard, and what He says is the law; God doesn't need a standard to follow--but we need to follow His standards, since He's the final judge of whether you are good or evil, and what He says goes.
Hm, as we know God has changed God's mind before, so if what he says is law, and God appears on earth, and says the Law is "Killing and raping and assorted other delightful things is what is good now, turning the cheek is for wimps" would you change your behaviour?
It's a slippery slope with a God who, by God's own words "“...form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
Edit: LoL traditional...two minds one thoughtedit on 12-1-2011 by scratchmane because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by adjensen
That's the handy thing about a reasoned faith. God would not come round and say that, so I would know that I'm going goofy.
Originally posted by JR MacBeth
As I recall Christians took up this issue again centuries later. The early thinkers did indeed see the problem, and had to propose "something" else, which they called the tertium quid, or "third thing".
Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Originally posted by adjensen
That's the handy thing about a reasoned faith. God would not come round and say that, so I would know that I'm going goofy.
That plays into the dilemma. For a bible follower, one must recognize that several times in the bible God does indeed make commandments to kill.
And if morality is simply what God says to do, by fiat he could command to kill, or rape, or do other things that run contrary to our reasoning.
Originally posted by adjensen
You are completely missing the point of my post. God would not command you to commit an act that is not good.
Originally posted by eight bits
If he's the reporter, then... what's the problem with that again? In observing the principle, he would limit himself?
Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Originally posted by adjensen
You are completely missing the point of my post. God would not command you to commit an act that is not good.
Again, by what standard are you using to judge what is good and what is not? If "good" is determined simply by whatever God says to do you could not make a judgment about whether it is good or not on your own.
Originally posted by Ausar
if god is deleted then gods commands as known are the "true north" for what is morally correct.
Originally posted by adjensen
I'm not judging what is good and what is not in that statement (if I needed to, I would use the "Love everyone else" to determine that raping my neighbour's daughter is not following God's commands.)
God would not issue such a command, because God is good, God is righteous. Those aren't things he decided he liked, they are aspects of his identify. Saying that God is good doesn't mean that I know what good is, or that I approve of his actions, but that the quality that we think of as "good" isn't some abstract thing drifting around, it is God. He didn't create it, or declare it, he just is it.
Meh, that's not very eloquently put, sorry. But the bottom line is that the Christian God would not command such a thing because he effectively could not command such a thing. Which is not an "omnipotence" thing, but a characteristic of an eternal and unchanging God (see Hebrews 6:13-20)
Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by adjensen
What about the part where God tells Abraham to sacrifice his son? That command does not sound like a loving thing to ask for, and yet if we accept the book as true then God did ask for something like that, even if it was just a test of faith and the boy wasn't killed.
Originally posted by Ausar
as i said in my prior reply; dogma is not morality.
if god spoke to all of his children at the same time or choose a people after disregarding his children and said: "they are your enemies you are to maim them if they try to look you in they eye"; this edict would not be a moral implication for gods children or his chosen people but an enaction of dogmatic principles.
Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
You claim god would not command that which is not good, and that which is good is god. In other words, whatever god commands must be good. Though at the same time you use a standard by which to mitigate what is good (that involving love) to discern whether or not a commandment is of god.
At the same time, you imply that god is inherently bound by that which is considered good and cannot command otherwise. This could imply that "good" is a standard existing independently of god and calls into question the alleged omnipotence of god.