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How to "Deny Ignorance" when it is ATS promoting the ignorance?

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posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Yissachar1
What I am saying is that people have varying degrees of knowledge and instead of being patronising why not share your intelect with the world and educate instead?

Turn your attitude to one of helping others to deny ignorance rather than being ignorant about their ignorance.


That's my point, I'm (among others) attempting to show that the Earth is not eating the moon by explaining the scientific facts of the matter, but no one is listening, because it's far more interesting to think that the Earth is eating the moon. Someone who already thought that has validation, and someone who didn't know anything about the matter suddenly thinks that this is the case.

That's the problem -- while I think that there are some who would prefer the fantasy, regardless of facts, I would hope that most people would appreciate knowing what the truth really is, but it's buried in a thread full of "Yes!! I knew it all along, S&F for you!!!" ra-ra posts, and even if you work your way to the end of the thread, the OP is still proclaiming his fallacy to be true.

This is not aimed at "perspective" posts, or speculative ones, but rather those where facts, verifiable and indisputable facts, are misrepresented, intentionally or otherwise.



Do not think that I do not see your point and feel your pain because I do.



But as an educator with undisputable facts that have been verified via the scientific method, and the results have been replicated again and again, thus proven.

Then instead of becomming unreasonable yourself, then its time to become more robust and creative in the way you drive your points home.

Maybe some imagination borrowed from those you slander can be used as a tool to educate.

But I suspect that you enjoy an air of superiority..


"Haha
I know more than you!"

I hope im wrong and you have a real desire to help others deny ignorance and have the imagination and robustness to do so




posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by neformore
Singling posts out for mudslinging is not the ATS way and people should know better.


I intentionally did not cite that thread, or any other, because I don't think that the problem is with any particular notice in itself. For purposes of the original post of this thread, it's more of a general observation on the feedback system in general.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by Yissachar1
But I suspect that you enjoy an air of superiority..

"Haha
I know more than you!"


No, not really. I'm generally a pretty polite person, though it can be exasperating, particularly when one's efforts at education are not merely ignored, but viewed with hostility and derision, simply because it is "established" and is seen as trying to take the air out of one's balloon. Which, of course, it is.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 07:07 PM
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Certainly ATS has a "High Ignorance Factor" despite its motto. I suppose we coukld argue where that places it with reference to MSM sites, subject-specialty sites, or other 'conspiracy' sites. This complaint about ATS is made pretty much every day now, so it is not exactly new, and the bigger the site becomes the worse it gets. I think zorgon has pretty well nailed it on how this works.

I thought it was quite funny earlier today when under "Recent Posts" There was a post from the "Young Aussie whips NASA in Moon Debate" thread, which basically says it was all a staged event in a movie studio, followed by a "NASA gets data from seismic monirtors left on the Moon by Apollo in 1971." Completely contradictory and side by side.

With so many subjects it is a vast site, but even if you care to bring your own field of expertise to bear on a subject, there are people who will argue with you. So this is not a place where you can expect to find the best answers because shrillness of voice trumps calm logic. That's just the way it is.

But once in awhile there are some interesting tidbits that come up which you can use as seeds to explore the subject. So when you come back tomorrow you know with absolute certainity tthat there will be new threads on

1. I found a dead bird in my back yard, so we're all gonna die
2. The NWO/Illuminati/TPTB are conspiring against us.
3. Assange is an promiscuous idiot who deserves a jail term
4. Assange is a hero who deserves the Nobel Prize
5. We never landed on the moon.
6. America is bad; everyone else in the Universe is good/a victim/not resposible/better
7. Even though I still live in my Mom's basement I know better than you
8. UFOs are real and Billy Meier/Stephen Greer is a saint
9. UFOs are fake and Billy Meier/Stephen Greer is a fraud and
10. ATS does not deny ignorance. It promotes it!

We've heard it all before. So, just deal with it. It's not going to change.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
No, not really. I'm generally a pretty polite person, though it can be exasperating, particularly when one's efforts at education are not merely ignored, but viewed with hostility and derision, simply because it is "established" and is seen as trying to take the air out of one's balloon. Which, of course, it is.


Hmmm well sometimes the person trying to 'educate' forgets that the scientists that he is using for reference don't actually know what is going on...


But the breach itself is not the biggest surprise. Researchers are even more amazed at the strange and unexpected way it forms, overturning long-held ideas of space physics.
NASA


So if the scientists themselves are baffled... and are talking "overturning long-held ideas of space physics" is it any wonder that those who think outside the box rebel against your 'education'?



Certainly when you make comments such as this...


Originally posted by adjensen
Seriously, stop the fear mongering, take ten minutes to study the basic concepts involved and use your frickin' brain. God gave you one for a reason, use it.


...you are neither denying ignorance nor educating anyone... and it does tend to sound more like a condescending "I know more than you do" position


edit on 7-1-2011 by zorgon because: PHAGE has been ABDUCTED by ALIENS




posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by Ellen15
birds are dying off - thebirdisdone


I was thinking along the line of "Christmas turkey"


But he made a very good point



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
Certainly when you make comments such as this...


Originally posted by adjensen
Seriously, stop the fear mongering, take ten minutes to study the basic concepts involved and use your frickin' brain. God gave you one for a reason, use it.


...you are neither denying ignorance nor educating anyone... and it does tend to sound more like a condescending "I know more than you do" position


Geez, you apparently read that post to pull the last two sentences out of it. Did you miss the preceding seven paragraphs, where I explained the reasons that the conclusions being drawn were erroneous? Did you fail to notice that it was on Page 10 of the thread, when the facts of the matter had been posted (and ignored) nine pages before? Or that it was my third post in the thread that attempted to explain that the phenomenon being discussed was misunderstood by the OP?

If you'd like to read the post without taking the last lines out of context, post a link like this.

As for your other comments, this thread has nothing to do with debating the facts of another thread. Post your claim over there if you think it vindicates the OP.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Yissachar1
But I suspect that you enjoy an air of superiority..

"Haha
I know more than you!"


No, not really. I'm generally a pretty polite person, though it can be exasperating, particularly when one's efforts at education are not merely ignored, but viewed with hostility and derision, simply because it is "established" and is seen as trying to take the air out of one's balloon. Which, of course, it is.



Established theories are MEAN'T to be tested.

This is how we progress as a species!

If we did not do this and question the establishment then we would all be flat earthers!


Humans progress through conflict and questioning.

Knowledge therefore does not stagnate but is pushed to its limits to new horizons..


We all do this as human beings.

Like sharpens like.

Change your attitude or be left behind rapido!



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by Yissachar1
Established theories are MEAN'T to be tested.

This is how we progress as a species!


Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with speculation and theorizing. This is about making claims that are predicated, completely, on false information, when the actual facts are clear and verifiable. If you want to say that you think that the cold winter is because the sun is dimming, fine. If you want to say that the cold winter is because the sun is a red giant, that's not so fine.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Established theories are MEAN'T to be tested.

This is how we progress as a species!


Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with speculation and theorizing. This is about making claims that are predicated, completely, on false information, when the actual facts are clear and verifiable. If you want to say that you think that the cold winter is because the sun is dimming, fine. If you want to say that the cold winter is because the sun is a red giant, that's not so fine.


Im not going to treat you like a moron so give me the same respect.

You know exactly what im talking about, if not then your education was pointless because you are nothing more than vocabulary...

Thus whinge away and continue to be a coward who makes zero difference in the world except for one out of billions who is pissed at grammer...



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by Yissachar1
You know exactly what im talking about, if not then your education was pointless because you are nothing more than vocabulary...


No, I'm afraid I do not, sorry. It has been thirty years since I got my degrees, so perhaps things have changed. But I was taught that some things are theories, and some things are facts. The magnetic North Pole moves, and has moved at least as long as we have been paying attention to it. That is a fact. Why the magnetic North Pole moves is a theory.

If you want to argue about why it moves, fine. If you want to argue that it doesn't move, then you are wrong, provable right from the start.


Thus whinge away and continue to be a coward who makes zero difference in the world except for one out of billions who is pissed at grammer...


I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, sorry. This has nothing to do with nitpicking grammar or spelling, so you seem to be arguing just for the sake of arguing.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Yissachar1
You know exactly what im talking about, if not then your education was pointless because you are nothing more than vocabulary...


No, I'm afraid I do not, sorry. It has been thirty years since I got my degrees, so perhaps things have changed. But I was taught that some things are theories, and some things are facts. The magnetic North Pole moves, and has moved at least as long as we have been paying attention to it. That is a fact. Why the magnetic North Pole moves is a theory.

If you want to argue about why it moves, fine. If you want to argue that it doesn't move, then you are wrong, provable right from the start.


Thus whinge away and continue to be a coward who makes zero difference in the world except for one out of billions who is pissed at grammer...


I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, sorry. This has nothing to do with nitpicking grammar or spelling, so you seem to be arguing just for the sake of arguing.




I rest my case



You are more ignorant than those who got your goat.


Blind


See you on the boards


edit on 7-1-2011 by Yissachar1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by Yissachar1
See you on the boards


Indeed, and thank you for your input. I'm not sure what victory you've achieved here, but I'm glad that you feel vindicated.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


I find there are very few true FACTS, especially on sites like ATS..
If they were all facts then we'd have NO reason to debate them..
Thus no reason for this site..

My only advice..
If you don't like a particular thread then simply ignore it..
It may be annoying to you but pure entertainment to others..

It's never been a "one size fits all world"



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


I hear ya.

Even when some are presented with FACTS they'll continue to ignore them and accuse others of "Ranting"

Hypocrites that's all they really are.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 05:43 AM
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Shame there isnt a function for thumbs up (like) or thumbs down (dislike) for ATS Members

Fact are facts until proven otherwise

From my experience and Im sure many others, this is with ALL topics

I agree with the poster who said science theories/models are meant to be tested
any one who disagrees demonstrates ignorance

Our understanding up until now based on the science method could very well explain a model to be something completely different or an extention/add on in 50 years time or 100 years time, could even happen earlier

21st century technology so far has illustrated quite a few newmthings new understanding about the world we live in and beyond.... technology is rapidly improving - in 5 years time, the engineers would come up with a new piece of equipment, never before used.. scientists would be able to further research and come up with even more new findings, new understandings, cures, etc

We do live in exciting times!


P.S. Science is not absolute



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by melatonin
 


That may well be understandable logic given that people can be seriously flawed and thoroughly determined to continue to believe in thier supremacy and dominion , and knowing this ought to shield one against that sort of nonsense.
But its not how it is SUPPOSED to be. Its like murder to a degree. People shouldnt get murdered, but they do. Knowing this does not make the situation any better, and does not mean that a person could have avoided getting killed nor does it excuse the behaviour of the guilty party, or lessen the blow to the victim or thier family.
Or looked at another way, if I tell you not to step backward, because thier is a cliff face behind you, and you step back anyway I might have expected it , knowing how cynical people can be, but it wont make it any easier to watch you become person pizza on the rocks below.
Fact is that there should NOT be rude people on this site, and people SHOULD do better in terms of thier personal conduct. That they dont is an insult to every one of us.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen
Geez, you apparently read that post to pull the last two sentences out of it. Did you miss the preceding seven paragraphs, where I explained the reasons that the conclusions being drawn were erroneous?


Well I pulled that portion for a reason... and your response shows me that it was that thread that has your dander up


The thing you fail to understand is that there are no official conclusions, no matter how much you say so. The scientists are confused and have no answers, they are using statements like 'baffled' and 'need to rewrite physics'

People are genuinely concerned and interested and now even main stream news like MSM and FOX have picked it up. ( I am sure they watch ATS to get there cues
)

Not sure why it bothers you so much that people may not want to accept 'official' conclusions here, especially when the officials have no real answers either.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen
The magnetic North Pole moves, and has moved at least as long as we have been paying attention to it. That is a fact. Why the magnetic North Pole moves is a theory.


Well it is also a fact that in recent years it has sped up drastically and that is a concern, no matter what the reason



There you go... it's now 'official'



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by adjensen
Geez, you apparently read that post to pull the last two sentences out of it. Did you miss the preceding seven paragraphs, where I explained the reasons that the conclusions being drawn were erroneous?


Well I pulled that portion for a reason... and your response shows me that it was that thread that has your dander up


Well, hooray, Lieutenant Columbo. I don't know why knowing what the original thread was is so important to you, but yes, it was that one, along with one which preceded it and was on a different subject, but once again intentionally ignored basic science for purposes of reaching a sensationalist conclusion.


Not sure why it bothers you so much that people may not want to accept 'official' conclusions here, especially when the officials have no real answers either.


You seem like a bright enough fellow, so I don't know why I have to keep repeating this, but I'll bold face it this time. I do not care, one iota, what conclusions you wish to come to or what you want to believe. What I care about is your conclusions being predicated on falsehoods, because that is ignorance building on ignorance, and I would like to think that anyone of reasonable sense would agree that verifiable facts are more useful than fiction. If I make a bad decision, based on fallacy, I would appreciate being corrected so that I do not make a bad decision.

And, again, for the rest of it, this thread is not about any of the specific issues raised in that other thread, so I don't know why you keep trying to start an argument about them, and I am not going to respond to it here.
edit on 8-1-2011 by adjensen because: (no reason given)



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