Mandatory ASVAB For High School Students

Originally posted by gnosticquasar
I don't think that the recruiters are evil, but I do think that their job is to sale the military to people. And I think that they have to be a bit aggressive and a tad annoying...just like most salesmen.

You hit the nail on the head! That's one of the reasons why I never wanted recruiter duty!

Well, it's a shame public schools can't come up with their own career planning guide without resorting to the military intervening in public education and as far as thinking for themselves, well that's not allowed in a public school. Poor little Tommy didn't score well, so he'll be greasing the wheels on the big fighter jets. Some kids don't do well on tests unfortunately.

I don't believe the test should be mandatory regardless and every student should have the right to their privacy, but that's pretty much non-existant in this day and age. We are definitely owned!

I always see the lone individual standing up for their rights, but noone willing to stand with him. I guess people are resigned to the fact that they've lost most of their freedoms.

My daughter scored very high on the test, but she's female, so no recruiters. The test didn't guide her in any way to a career path. I'll have to find her test scores.

And to the poster that claims the military has nothing to do with the test, they are the ones that designed the test and all information is sent to the DOD, because schools do not choose Option 8! They are receiving money for administering the test, which is probably why students are told it's mandatory.

The Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery, (ASVAB) is the military's entrance exam that is given to fresh recruits to determine their aptitude for various military occupations. The test is also used as a recruiting tool in 11,900 schools across the country. The 4 hour test is used by military recruiting services to gain valuable information on more than 600,000 high school students across the country every year, the vast majority of whom are under the age of 18. In many cases, students take the test without parental knowledge or consent.

Although the military promotes the ASVAB as a voluntary "Career Exploration Program" administered to juniors and seniors, the US Army Recruiting Command's School Recruiting Program Handbook, USAREC Pamphlet 350-13 says the primary purpose of the ASVAB is to provide military recruiters "with a source of leads of high school juniors and seniors qualified through the ASVAB for enlistment into the Active Army and Army Reserve." (1)

www.asvabtest.org...

Originally posted by SneakySleuth911
When my students take the ASVAB, which is mandatory for all seniors where I teach as well, the data is used to help our lower achieving students or our students that we are still trying to help find direction. The army doesn't force us to make our kids take it.

No, the Army doesn't have to force it. The Public School does that and in direct violation and without parents consent.

With 11,900 high schools administering the ASVAB last year, most in direct violation of federal and state laws, and more than 1,000 schools forcing students to take the test without parental knowledge or consent, it's not difficult enlisting the support of rational school officials to re-examine their policies toward military testing.

Most Americans are pretty complacent and very few are political activists. Fewer still are committed to fighting rampant militarism or protecting privacy rights. Most don't have a clue what the ASVAB is or how it is used as one of the military's most effective recruiting tools but that's changing.(No, it isn't!)

www.nnomy.org...

reply to post by thegoodearth
if you read what i stated you would see we are on the same page , i guess you skipped a line or two.

Originally posted by Onboard2
Well, it's a shame public schools can't come up with their own career planning guide without resorting to the military intervening in public education and as far as thinking for themselves, well that's not allowed in a public school.

Statements like this drive educators up a wall. Do you really think we have an endless vat of money to spend however and wherever we please? If your school district does, please put in a good word for me because I can tell you the majority of schools in America do NOT have unlimited funds. Teaching is a job of passion. It is not a job you do for the pay in the public system. Teaching is one of the lowest paid jobs that requires a 4 year degree and has virtually no job ladder unless you go into administration. And if you choose to do to that, then you are no longer in the classroom and you can't make the impact you want anymore. If you read through my post, you would see that I take it upon myself to make sure my students explore various options. The test itself is meant to give more ideas, and more options. At the end of the day, if I know I did everything I could for a struggling kid then my day was a success.

Poor little Tommy didn't score well, so he'll be greasing the wheels on the big fighter jets. Some kids don't do well on tests unfortunately.

I won't argue that some kids don't test well. I have had students with genius IQ's bomb the simplest of tests due to test anxieties. However, standards must exist otherwise we have no basis of comparison. People complain about the lack of consistency with testing in the United States, and even within the state level. Without switching to standardization there is no way to clearly watch the progress of our students. That being said, we have programs that exist to help students work through this via accommodations during tests and classes students can take to prepare better. Besides, that is a big jump that Tommy will be forced to a brute labor job because of one test. I know you were being hyperbolic, but even at the collegiate level services are provided to aid students.

I don't believe the test should be mandatory regardless and every student should have the right to their privacy, but that's pretty much non-existant in this day and age. We are definitely owned!

I respect your opinion, however I will have to state that I disagree for the reasons I have posted above. I do not think that you are a bad person, but merely ignorant to how the system actually works. Is standardized testing foolproof? I promise you will never hear a (good) educator tell you that it is. There are problems with everything, but education is a constantly evolving system and kinks tend to work out or we research into something that is not a broken process and adapt to do what we think is best for our kids. I won't say we haven't messed up before, but I can assure you those mistakes did not go unchanged.

I always see the lone individual standing up for their rights, but noone willing to stand with him. I guess people are resigned to the fact that they've lost most of their freedoms.

Again, this has nothing to do with loss of freedoms or liberties, but instead a way to track achievement and provide additional opportunities the student may not have thought about before. Many kids have no idea what they want to do in life, and plenty of young adults that go off to college change their major 2 or 3 times before settling on their passion. Some don't even find that and bounce job to job. Why not give them an additional sense of focus and direction at such a critical age?

My daughter scored very high on the test, but she's female, so no recruiters. The test didn't guide her in any way to a career path. I'll have to find her test scores.

You should be very proud of your daughter (undoubtably you are) for her academic successes. You should also be glad you didn't have to deal with the calls It seems like your daughter already had some focus before the test was taken. But like I said, I use this test to help guide my students who do not have any focus and don't know where they want to go in life.


I hope this clarifies any confusion with my original statements.

I am definitely not ignorant to how the system works, lol.

Parents and students alike should be aware that students should have a choice in whether they take the ASVAB or not. To deny students the right to make that choice is in violation of state and federal law. Schools are hiding the fact that all information on students;name, social security numbers and test scores are sent off to the DOD.
A friend of mine spoke with a member of the department of defense and was told the test is 'voluntary'. This IS hyperbole in the US. Or maybe an oxymoron. A voluntary test that's being made mandatory by school teachers and administration across the US. Maybe a call to ACLU and an editorial in the newspaper informing parents of 'the system' will take care of the matter. It worked in Maryland.

I dug my daughter's scores out and noticed that there are two math categories and also Mechanical Comprehension, Auto and Shop Information and Electronics Informations. I would say this is definitely geared toward the military. She scored lowest in auto and shop at 54, but 85% above females. Is this fair to females!That would be 85 out of 100 females and 54% among 100 males. Overall, I would say she's in category II.

The Airforce requires a score of 36 and the Army 31.

For anyone interested:
www.asvabprep.com...

Originally posted by Onboard2
I dug my daughter's scores out and noticed that there are two math categories and also Mechanical Comprehension, Auto and Shop Information and Electronics Informations. I would say this is definitely geared toward the military.

Or to anyone that wanted to work in the auto repair industry. Or HVAC. Or computers.

Originally posted by Onboard2
She scored lowest in auto and shop at 54, but 85% above females. Is this fair to females!That would be 85 out of 100 females and 54% among 100 males. Overall, I would say she's in category II.

So you say that the test needs to be geared better towards females, regardless?

Not only young males, but females also. Public schools are using the ASVAB to guide young students to a career path according to their interests. According to statistics, most students that score low the first time, don't score any higher the second time. ASVAB For Dummies is needed! It seems after looking over the categories, the test is geared toward mathematics, electrical knowledge and mechanics. How is that fair to females and how is it fair to all students that will not choose a path in the military?

Also Jericho, I could be wrong, because I haven't taken the test, so I don't know the timed questions that are asked on this test, but looking at the categories, it seems that there could be options in other categories that's not an option on the test. What about Art or history?

Originally posted by Onboard2
Well, it's a shame public schools can't come up with their own career planning guide without resorting to the military intervening in public education and as far as thinking for themselves, well that's not allowed in a public school.

The military isn't intervening in public education; they are administrating a test. It's the same as a college entrance exam.

Originally posted by Onboard2
Poor little Tommy didn't score well, so he'll be greasing the wheels on the big fighter jets. Some kids don't do well on tests unfortunately.

And? So, you think that if he scores low, poor little Timmy should still be given the chance to be a fighter pilot instead of maintaining the landing gear? Sorry, the military isn't like some schools now, where everyone is a winner! It's sort of like that line from Caddyshake: The world needs ditchdiggers.

Originally posted by Onboard2
My daughter scored very high on the test, but she's female, so no recruiters. The test didn't guide her in any way to a career path. I'll have to find her test scores.

Did you think that maybe what she scored high in was something that the military wasn't looking for at the time she took the tests?

Originally posted by Onboard2
I dug my daughter's scores out and noticed that there are two math categories and also Mechanical Comprehension, Auto and Shop Information and Electronics Informations. I would say this is definitely geared toward the military.

Of course it is geared toward the military, it is called the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery after all.

Also Jericho, I could be wrong, because I haven't taken the test, so I don't know the timed questions that are asked on this test, but looking at the categories, it seems that there could be options in other categories that's not an option on the test. What about Art or history?

As an educator, I agree art and history are important subject areas. History gets the short end of the stick beginning in the early grades as does art. However, for the average military grunt, knowing that the cradle of civilization is generally agreed to be located in the Fertile Crescent or that Sir Isaac Newton developed the first circular diagram of colors (also called the color wheel) in 1666 isn't going to help them in a war zone situation.


Again, the point I am trying to reiterate is that this tool can be used to help students without focus apply skill sets they may possess find a positive outlet.

Just because you get good scores doesn't mean you are limited to just military. Most military personnel walk out with skill sets that help them in a variety of job placements in their later careers. Trade school, college, and other learning institutions are always an option too. Many the kid is good at something and didn't realize they had specific skill sets.

Parents and students alike should be aware that students should have a choice in whether they take the ASVAB or not. To deny students the right to make that choice is in violation of state and federal law. Schools are hiding the fact that all information on students;name, social security numbers and test scores are sent off to the DOD.

Sure. I have students who decide they want to skip the day of the ASVAB. We don't round them up in front of a metaphorical firing squad. They can choose not to take it but then miss out on the information that could help them. Besides, the DOD has access to all that information about your student anyways. This one test isn't going to make the difference in what they already have.

Thanks for proving my point very well, sneakysleuth. I won't quote you right now, but previously, you stated the test had nothing to do with the military, but now you say it's geared toward military duty. Isn't the cradle of civilization in the Middle East? I do feel young students do need assistance choosing a career path, but could there be a better designed method?

Originally posted by SneakySleuth911

Originally posted by Onboard2
Sure. I have students who decide they want to skip the day of the ASVAB. We don't round them up in front of a metaphorical firing squad. They can choose not to take it but then miss out on the information that could help them. Besides, the DOD has access to all that information about your student anyways. This one test isn't going to make the difference in what they already have.

No, actually it's mandatory for students now, because parents are unaware. I don't think the DOD has access to the information, until the public schools willingly give it to them, instead of choosing Option 8 and protecting the privacy of each student.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by gnosticquasar
One of my friends got a good score on it and actually had a military recruiter show up at his house.

And?

Big deal. He got a good score and a recruiter showed up. How come people have a hissy fit about this?

Because IT IS NO BUSINESS of a school district to cram this down a kid and his/her parents throats!

Originally posted by thegoodearth
reply to post by Onboard2

 

This test was mandatory in the 80's when I had to take it.

I am surprised it still is...
In this world of "personal rights"....

Why is this a "bad" thing, again?

edit on 5-1-2011 by thegoodearth because: (no reason given)

It wasn't mandatory in my school district in the 80's when I took it. And it should NOT be mandatory anywhere. I took it along with my best friend just for the hell of it and we both aced it - it is a really simple test. On the other hand, if it had been "mandatory" there is no way in hell I or my parents would have gone along with that. The funny thing is I did join the Navy after a year of college, but again that was MY CHOICE.

Originally posted by thegoodearth
Hey-
Our kids have to take all kinds of "tests" in schools...
They take the Iowa Test of Basic Skills (or its equivalent) etc...
Many take PSATs-

This test, being given as well to High School students for free,
if one looks as it in a more positive light,
will give students a better idea of where they are standing
when it comes to looking at college- future options.

And preparing for SATs and ACTs.

If one honestly thinks that recruiters, and the DOD sit around and pour over
these results, twisting their moustaches, trying to diabolically find
some way to steal the kids, they are out of their minds- they have better things to do.

If someone scores really high, they might contact them. Just like you get a flood of calls
when you get good SAT scores (yeah, without telling anyone-because those results aren't "private" either)

You miss the point entirely: SAT, ACT, PSAT are all voluntary. It is in the best interest of a student to have a good score on those tests, but it is NOT mandatory to take them at all, unlike in the OP's case where a school district has mandated that the ASVAB be taken, which furthers no educational goal such as getting into MIT or Stanford.

ASVAB is a joke at best, and no college of repute pays any attention to it.