Mandatory ASVAB For High School Students

Originally posted by crimsongod21
im confused, whats the big deal? It was manditory in my school to take the asvab way back in 02, i took the test as a junior. I was able to score a high score on the test sure i got a few calls and personal visits from the local recruiters and mounds of mail for rotc and other military ventures, that was it no real pressure to join or anything like that and you know what no draft at all just my two cents

The big deal is that ASVAB is not recognized by colleges. ASVAB mandatory testing is the individual school district's decision, not some federal law. Why not make ACT and SAT testing mandatory? Because they charge and Uncle Sugar actually pays school districts for ASVAB testing.

reply to post by SneakySleuth911


How do you, as a supposed educator, believe that local school districts making the ASVAB mandatory - this is no Federal initiative - is justified?

I ask that as a Navy vet, who (Voluntarily) took the ASVAB in school, and then joined the Navy after my freshman year of college, and one who would have vociferously taken on the school board in question, should my son or daughter have been compelled to take this test by that local yokel board.

I've always been kind of proud of myself... When it was time for me to take this test, my intentions were to get every single answer I could wrong.

I'm surprised I never got any calls/letters...

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by gnosticquasar
One of my friends got a good score on it and actually had a military recruiter show up at his house.

And?

Big deal. He got a good score and a recruiter showed up. How come people have a hissy fit about this?

Because IT IS NO BUSINESS of a school district to cram this down a kid and his/her parents throats!

I wasn't saying that. All I was saying is that if a recruiter shows up after a kid takes the test, and he/she's not interested in the military, simply tell the guy that. It's nothing to get all freaked out about.

As I said before (and you probably missed), I don't think this should be mandatory; the test costs money so why should it be wasted on kids that don't want, or aren't interested in a military career.

Originally posted by 46ACE
(exmil here) If you put the "Mule brakes on "and do poorly on the ASVAB its gonna limit your choices of specialties.

Yeah it could be a scary first step to the draft( a mandatory push for universal testing).

And - God forbid - they did bring back the draft. And what if you (or your kid) purposely did poorly on the ASVAB in school but it was now part of your (or their) permanent record? Could easily see that severely limiting choices when you otherwise have no choice due to the draft. Oooops!

I think I'd recommend doing your best on this test, as with any other test, just in case it turns out to be a deciding factor later, and maybe they don't let you do it over again.

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by 46ACE
(exmil here) If you put the "Mule brakes on "and do poorly on the ASVAB its gonna limit your choices of specialties.

Yeah it could be a scary first step to the draft( a mandatory push for universal testing).

And - God forbid - they did bring back the draft. And what if you (or your kid) purposely did poorly on the ASVAB in school but it was now part of your (or their) permanent record? Could easily see that severely limiting choices when you otherwise have no choice due to the draft. Oooops!

Exactly! But not only that, the test really is not helpful to those that don't want to be in the military, because it's geared toward military classifications depending on how well the students score.

Originally posted by Onboard2
Exactly! But not only that, the test really is not helpful to those that don't want to be in the military, because it's geared toward military classifications depending on how well the students score.

You do realize that those military jobs that the ASVAB point people towards because they'd do well in them typically have a civilian equivalent that those people would do equally as well in, right? I voluntarily took the ASVAB in high school, scored a 92, was pointed in the direction of fiber-optics and seriously considered it before deciding that I had more interest in other things. It's not the big bad evil some people think it is, and it takes all of five seconds to tell a recruiter you're not interested. I agree that the test shouldn't be mandatory for anyone, but it's not going to lead to you, your child, or anyone else getting drafted.

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by Onboard2
Exactly! But not only that, the test really is not helpful to those that don't want to be in the military, because it's geared toward military classifications depending on how well the students score.

You do realize that those military jobs that the ASVAB point people towards because they'd do well in them typically have a civilian equivalent that those people would do equally as well in, right? I voluntarily took the ASVAB in high school, scored a 92, was pointed in the direction of fiber-optics and seriously considered it before deciding that I had more interest in other things. It's not the big bad evil some people think it is, and it takes all of five seconds to tell a recruiter you're not interested. I agree that the test shouldn't be mandatory for anyone, but it's not going to lead to you, your child, or anyone else getting drafted.

You must be referring to your AFQT score, which is based on the number of the test takers. There is no over-all ASVAB score, unless my information is incorrect.

Originally posted by Onboard2
You must be referring to your AFQT score, which is based on the number of the test takers. There is no over-all ASVAB score, unless my information is incorrect.

Yes, that is what I was referring to. It's been awhile so I forgot what it was called and was too lazy to look it up.

reply to post by gnosticquasar


What if the test is used to decide which of the youth today is going to get to survive...."insert"....
We old folk are done....but maybe the government wants to have a list of people that will gathered up, and bring them underground when the time comes.

...but that is cool too if you want your kids to die along with you...

IMHO the military should not be allowed on any USA high school or college campus. young people are very easily mislead and manipulated. many youngsters have no idea that patriotism, flag-waving and boasting are effective tools used to guide them into danger. we have had too many young men and women come home permanently disabled or worse, in coffins. we have military personnel returning from overseas tours only to commit suicide. the shock of finding out what really takes place, seeing it first-hand, it too much for some to bear.
Maybe the military could leave school kids alone and instead recruit the sons and daughters of the politicians in Washington DC. Unless the recruiters are not let into the gated communities of the rich & powerful, they could also try to interest the millionaires spawn.
If somehow that doesn't pan out the let the military 'recruit' our finest prisoners from the over-flowing human warehouses the taxpayers take a beating supporting. there are plenty of able-bodied murderers, rapists and paedophiles that just may enjoy the madness.

Originally posted by Onboard2
Thanks for proving my point very well, sneakysleuth. I won't quote you right now, but previously, you stated the test had nothing to do with the military, but now you say it's geared toward military duty. Isn't the cradle of civilization in the Middle East? I do feel young students do need assistance choosing a career path, but could there be a better designed method?

You have proven anything. My post states the military doesn't force us to administer it. The ASVAB has 'Army' in the name, why would you even speculate the test has no military applications? Please show me where I said this because I can not find it, nor does your response following this statement include this. Perhaps a misunderstanding or assumption on your part?

Yes, the cradle of civilization is the Middle East. The point I was illustrating was that for a grunt it serves no practical purpose to be affluent in history or art, which you were inquiring about earlier if there should be sections about those on the test.

Once again, the test is used nothing more than to help give direction and open more doors. No good educator would ever say 'no' to giving a kid another option to consider, especially a kid that would otherwise slip through the cracks.

Originally posted by Onboard2
No, actually it's mandatory for students now, because parents are unaware. I don't think the DOD has access to the information, until the public schools willingly give it to them, instead of choosing Option 8 and protecting the privacy of each student.

It isn't mandatory in the sense you are trying to make it seem. That is the point I tried to tell you. We have students all the time choose to skip the day the test is administered. We do not hold graduation over their head. We do not call home beyond checking to ensure the kid was okay. We don't assign suspension or detentions for not taking the test. I can't speak for every school in the world, but our district lets the parents know that we give the test. I have never had a single parent complain about the test. If the parent objects to it they have their kid take a "sick" day. Or the kid doesn't want to take it and they goof off with their friends and are fine so long as the Truant Officer doesn't catch them. Truancy is another matter entirely different from the test though.

I agree with you 100% that parents should be informed. If your district keeps parents unaware and you know this, why don't you try bringing these points up at the next school board meeting?

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
reply to post by SneakySleuth911

 

How do you, as a supposed educator, believe that local school districts making the ASVAB mandatory - this is no Federal initiative - is justified?

I ask that as a Navy vet, who (Voluntarily) took the ASVAB in school, and then joined the Navy after my freshman year of college, and one who would have vociferously taken on the school board in question, should my son or daughter have been compelled to take this test by that local yokel board.

Mydarkpassenger,

With all due respect, as I have previously conveyed to the OP several times now, the test is not mandatory. Can you please help me find this post where I supposedly make such a claim? It seems that you have read between what you perceive the lines to be and have misconstrued my meaning. If that is the case and this is a simple situation of misinterpretation, than I do not take any offense. No one (in my District) forces any child to take this test.

There is a fine line and a big difference between forcing someone to take the test, and a district either choosing or neglecting to tell parents about the test. Both situations are wrong and reproachable and should not occur. I can assure you such practices are not indicative of education at large. I have stated already that I do not agree with parents being out of the loop. I truly do not understand where this opposition toward me is coming from?

Perhaps you misread my statement where I stated the military doesn't stand behind us at gun point telling us to give the test?

Originally posted by LargeFries
IMHO the military should not be allowed on any USA high school or college campus. young people are very easily mislead and manipulated. many youngsters have no idea that patriotism, flag-waving and boasting are effective tools used to guide them into danger. we have had too many young men and women come home permanently disabled or worse, in coffins. we have military personnel returning from overseas tours only to commit suicide. the shock of finding out what really takes place, seeing it first-hand, it too much for some to bear.

OK, so if the military isn't allowed to recruit on HS or College campuses, just where are they suppose to get their recruits?

Originally posted by LargeFries
Maybe the military could leave school kids alone and instead recruit the sons and daughters of the politicians in Washington DC. Unless the recruiters are not let into the gated communities of the rich & powerful, they could also try to interest the millionaires spawn.

Ah, here's your answer. Sorry, but I don't think recruiting every son or daughter of the rich and politicians is going to fill a single squadron, let alone several.

And a little research will show that several members of Congress, etc do have kids (or nephews/nieces since many of their kids are in their 30s) in the military and serving overseas. McCain, Palin and Biden are three that come to mind. All served in Iraq, I believe.

Originally posted by LargeFries
If somehow that doesn't pan out the let the military 'recruit' our finest prisoners from the over-flowing human warehouses the taxpayers take a beating supporting. there are plenty of able-bodied murderers, rapists and paedophiles that just may enjoy the madness.

Another four star solution! Fill the ranks of the military with rapists, murderers and pedophiles! Geez, just one good idea after another is coming from you! You need to stop hiding your genius; a job with a "think-tank" is just waiting for you.

Originally posted by SneakySleuth911
When my students take the ASVAB, which is mandatory for all seniors where I teach as well, the data is used to help our lower achieving students or our students that we are still trying to help find direction. The army doesn't force us to make our kids take it.

No, the schools force it and it is mandatory at my son's high school. That means, they aren't given a choice. As I stated, my son will NOT be taking the test.

Originally posted by SneakySleuth911

Originally posted by Onboard2
The point I was illustrating was that for a grunt it serves no practical purpose to be affluent in history or art, which you were inquiring about earlier if there should be sections about those on the test.

Once again, the test is used nothing more than to help give direction and open more doors. No good educator would ever say 'no' to giving a kid another option to consider, especially a kid that would otherwise slip through the cracks.

Sneakysleuth, I commend you for being an excellent teacher, but you have pretty much proven that the test is geared for the military. Are you grooming students for the military or college or a good trade? I assume it's not the military, so why wouldn't art and history be included in a career plan or even clothing and food for that matter? Since, it is geared for the military, I feel it has no place in a public school. It's also geared more for males than females.

Any male can take the ASVAB once he's 18. I think I'd take offense at being called a 'grunt', if i was in the military. Those soldiers work hard and are educated in the process to perform specific tasks.

I also think every student has the right to privacy and this is as important as freedom.

I can't see the reasoning behind making a 15 yr. old take the ASVAB. If my son had an interest in taking the test and scored low, he'd miss out on being a fighter pilot for sure. I think it's best to wait, until they're 18, males and females. They have more time to increase their knowledge.

Originally posted by Onboard2
Sneakysleuth, I commend you for being an excellent teacher, but you have pretty much proven that the test is geared for the military. Are you grooming students for the military or college or a good trade? I assume it's not the military, so why wouldn't art and history be included in a career plan or even clothing and food for that matter? Since, it is geared for the military, I feel it has no place in a public school. It's also geared more for males than females.

Any male can take the ASVAB once he's 18. I think I'd take offense at being called a 'grunt', if i was in the military. Those soldiers work hard and are educated in the process to perform specific tasks.

I also think every student has the right to privacy and this is as important as freedom.

Again, you are missing the point though. I have not debated you that the test is geared for the military. In fact, each time you state this in response to me, I tell you I agree with you. I try to provide enough information for my kids to follow a path that works for them. I respect your opinion about wanting to keep military out of the public school but it is not as black and white as you are painting it out to be. I have students heading in every direction in life. Should my male students who are seniors but do not turn 18 until Spring semester or summer be forced to wait until near/after graduation to see where they stand should they consider a military career simply because you don't think public school is the appropriate venue for them to take such a test?

Although I went through Higher Education, what makes letting Colleges speak but banning recruiters acceptable? You see, this is where it becomes a matter of opinion. My opinion won't necessarily sway yours and vice versa. Sometimes we must accept that we have opposing views and move on. I think that we need colleges, trade schools, military, and any other speaker if it means focus can be given.

I'm sorry if I offended you with the term grunt, it is actually a term commonly used by military personnel and the belief is that it came to be during the Vietnam war era. The soldiers I know do not take offense to it and use it themselves, however I can refrain from using it. Antagonism is not my intention. In my opening post into this thread, I stated that the military takes the ASVAB test very seriously now, and not just any clown can join the ranks and become something in the Army or other armed forces. I have the utmost respect for my heroes, and I believe my earlier statements echo this. Education is very much a part of the military, as any other function of life. But for those K-12 kids interested in the military, why shouldn't they be afforded the opportunity to see what skill sets they have at a younger age?

I look forward to your follow up replies. This thread has been rather fun, especially with the civility.

Originally posted by Onboard2
I can't see the reasoning behind making a 15 yr. old take the ASVAB. If my son had an interest in taking the test and scored low, he'd miss out on being a fighter pilot for sure. I think it's best to wait, until they're 18, males and females. They have more time to increase their knowledge.

I will agree with most of the post here. And at my school, we only test the seniors. On ASVAB testing days, our sophomores and juniors work on PSAT/SAT workshops or other academia-enriched seminars to further aid them.

That is reflective of your school/school board, and as I suggested earlier, I would try voicing your concerns with the principal and if that falls on deaf ears, the school board itself. That is not how education should be run. Parents should not be kept in the dark or told 'tough luck your kid will do it or else.'

I will disagree, again , that we should wait until 18 on the basis that by that point some kids might already be graduated. I like our system of testing our seniors. We test them early enough in the fall that those who want to join the military and take the test, and take it seriously have enough time to research their military options.