Expert: Storm likely killed thousands of birds.

My first guess when I heard about this was radar. Given that this has become widespread I haven't a clue what could be causing this. I seriously doubt weather for fireworks are the cause as MSM is reporting.

Originally posted by Movescamp
reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy

 

Ok first average temp in chesapeake Bay 36 degrees. That is tour record cold.
www.go-maryland.com...

Those are averages, not actual temperatures... Do you know how to calculate averages?

'Very large' fish kill reported in bay.

The bay's surface water temperature late last month — 32.9 degrees--was the coldest in 25 years, according to state records. Historical lows were recorded at 13 locations on the bay, from the mouth of the Elk River to Rock Hall and Kent Island to Point Lookout. Spot have little tolerance for temperatures below 35.6 degrees.

Prove the above wrong.

Originally posted by Movescamp
CCA membership How do you suppose i "prove it". I have been fishing in Baytown, Port O'conner and Galveston ever since I have lived in Texas. I also hunt in lampasas.

I don't know, figure it out. Anyone on the internet could be pretend to have a CCA membership, and then pretend it actually means something.

Originally posted by Movescamp
Two of you articles say "suspected" cold weather.

I know, because that is most likely the cause. It usually is the cause.

Originally posted by Movescamp
I am pretty sure the EPA takes bribes.

More unproven conspiracy talk. Show your evidence that there was a bribe or even a reason for a bribe.

Originally posted by Movescamp
Most of your articles have witnesses saying "I have never seen anything like this in my life". I guess that's your definition of common.

Witnesses are not experts.

Maryland Department of the Environment spokesperson Dawn Stoltzfus says “cold-water stress” is believed to be the culprit. She told The Sun that similar large winter fish deaths were documented in 1976 and 1980.

It's happened before in that location, and it is documented..... so it's normal. It probably happens on smaller less noticeable scales more often than we can detect as well.

Originally posted by Movescamp
I know you are a climate change denier but it's real. Weather patterns happen naturally but that doesn't mean we aren't changing them. It doesn't mean that killing off entire species doesn't effect the whole chain. Killing even microbial life has an impact.

I don't believe in carbon tax or the co2 thing. But I do believe the destruction as a whole helps change weather patterns like the gulf oil spill effecting currents.

How are these fish kills normal when the local residents repeatedly say innate never seen anything like this before.

I love how you pick your conspiracies. Like man made climate change is a hoax but the government and media tell the truth about this. It's not normal at all. I am not "freaked". I hunt, fish, track, know how to use snares, and have a purple belt in jiujitsu. If I die I die at least I have skills to survive. In my short 32 years hunting and fishing I have never seen so many strange things as the last 3 years. I spend a lot of time in the woods.

WHAT?

Your lack of ability to read makes it very hard to communicate with you.

If you can't even read my first posts where I specifically state that I believe climate change is real, then how am I supposed to expect you to read or comprehend ANY of my future posts?

I said:

Many of you don't believe in climate change, but I believe it is happening, and the beginning of it might look similar to this.

...and I also said this:

I also believe that climate change could cause wild life die-offs, because severe weather has done it before.

Then you say this:

Originally posted by Movescamp
I know you are a climate change denier but it's real.

I think I am going to have to ignore everything you say from now on, since you have been ignoring me and my posts. There is no point in trying to have a discussion with you.

The whole point about my first/second post is to put forward the idea that climate change is causing wild life die-offs around the world... and here you are calling me a climate change denier. I think there is something wrong with you, and I say that sincerely.

I'm done with you. Goodbye.

reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy


Are you kidding me that's what I said the average temperature is 36 that's you near record low. Just pointing out 36 is not even close to a record low. If you lived on the east coast you would know that.

Here are some facts about Chesapeake bay in 1976.
nepis.epa.gov... y%20or%20pollution&Time=&EndTime=&SearchMethod=1&TocRestrict=n&Toc=&TocEntry=&QField=pubnumber%5E%22600277075%22&QFieldYear=&QFieldMonth=&QFieldDay=&U seQField=pubnumber&IntQFieldOp=1&ExtQFieldOp=1&XmlQuery=&File=D%3A%5Czyfiles%5CIndex%20Data%5C76thru80%5CTxt%5C00000007%5C2000ZSJ3.txt&User=ANONYMOUS& Password=anonymous&SortMethod=h%7C-&MaximumDocuments=10&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r75g8/r75g8/x150y150g16/i425&Display=p%7Cf&DefSeekPage=x&SearchBack =ZyActionL&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results%20page&MaximumPages=1&ZyEntry=1&SeekPage=x&ZyPURL

Why would the EPA lie. Hmm maybe to cover up people who dumped mass amount of pollution after giving massive political contributions. It's putting 2 and 2 together just like your scientist saying "most likely". Chesapeake bay was one of the extremely polluted bays in America. The clean water act was made using the bay as an example.

You are a touchy dude. Which emplies guilt or lack of confidence. We are not talking about a personal issue like racism or something why are you so angry and arrogant?

I am a CCA member and angler. I really don't think people would use that as a selling point an obscure coastal preservation nonprofit. But maybe I will take a picture of my tide magazine.

I am not saying it's not weather related I just said it's prob not possible. Having happened 3 times in 30 years twice during the worst pollution era and a massive oil spill is not all the time. I think that's quite misleading.

Locals are certainly experts in the fact that they have live there in those cases their whole lives. But no a scientist visiting from far away knows better. You really take for granted the knowledge of local fisherman.

Global climate change due to pollution is not "normal". It shouldn't be presented as oh it's just normal don't worry people the currents are all messed up and the gulf stream too but it's normal.

Originally posted by Movescamp
Are you kidding me that's what I said the average temperature is 36 that's you near record low. Just pointing out 36 is not even close to a record low. If you lived on the east coast you would know that.

Again, and again, and again, you fail to read. I am getting frustrated with you because you fail to read. Please, take some reading classes or something....

It was the near-record low for the past 25 years. NEAR- RECORD LOW FOR THE PAST 25 YEARS! Not record low of all time, just in the past 25 year. Do you understand that? Can you read that??? Have someone read it and explain it to you.

The bay's surface water temperature late last month — 32.9 degrees--was the coldest in 25 years, according to state records.

ACCORDING TO STATE RECORDS. Let's see your state records.

-edit for more-

Also, nobody said the witnesses were "locals". They were just people who are looking at dead fish.

And I never said climate change was "normal". I said fish dying from cold temperatures is normal.

Holy, cow man. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. You are wasting my time.

I'm not sure if anyone from my area has chimed in on this or not, I live in Little Rock, the tornadoes that we had on NYE were during the day, and our severe storm and tornado watches/warnings in my area and surrounding were rescinded at 3:00pm on the dot, there wasn't any above normal high winds the rest of the evening and there wasn't even any real rain to speak of (in my area), a few passing showers here and there but no big bang crash storms. Having been in a tornado when I was a kid I am kinda twitchy when the weather gets bad, I would have remembered there being a large evening storm as I do not drink and was home playing PS3 with my roommate.

reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy


Wow take some Valium dude. Do you get so angry with all people who disagree with you. If you look at state records and not just take abc news as truth you will see only place directly touching the shore were around 36 degrees. Which is what I assumed. Also if you dig deeper past your brick wall Chesapeake Bay is still heavily polluted. Explain to me how the fish got trapped right on the shoreline? Is it possible yep. Could there be other reasons yep. That's why they say "most likely" and not definitely.

Croaker are a bait fish so it is possible like I said I just take reports from the msm with a grain of salt and know how badly polluted the bay is.
Really man chill out it's ATS not the bar exam.

reply to post by Movescamp


I'm not angry because you disagree with me. I'm agree because your reading comprehension is crap.

It was only 32 degrees on the surface of the bay. That means it was colder on the bottom. State records say for the past 25 years that is nearly the coldest it has been. The fish that were found don't do well in temperatures below 35.

There is no reason to discuss this any further with you.. I am ignoring you now.

Originally posted by andy1033
This sounds like a answer for the masses to accept on the media.

No way would a storm have done this.

I wouldn't have thought so too, until I read this bit...

He says thousands of birds were probably asleep in a single tree when a "washing machine-type thunderstorm" sucked them up into the air, disoriented them, and even fatally soaked and chilled them.

See, this wasn't just a normal storm. It was a washing machine-type thunderstorm!

I just can't stop giggling over that explanation!

reply to post by NuclearPaul

See, this wasn't just a normal storm. It was a washing machine-type thunderstorm! I just can't stop giggling over that explanation!

Yeah. We used to have those storms all the time when I was a child. My mom would just hang dirty laundry on the wash-line outside, then the washing machine storms would do the work for her.
She would bring the clothes inside right after the Clothes Dryer Storm came through.

reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy


Oh i am sorry I thought you really looked at the state records or the NOAA website. I also thought you understood surface temperature and seasons. In the summer the top is warmer in the winter it is opposite. Wow I thought even without any knowledge of the outdoors someone would know that.

So by your definition when a lake freezes over the water below it is colder than the ice?

It's pretty simple science the cold air and rain cool the SURFACE of the water. It takes a long time to change the temperature of the volume of water. By the time any significant change is done to the volume it will be summer. Hence a pretty stable overall temperatue.

It's clear who doesn't comprehend what they read.

Oh and you already said you were done.

Originally posted by Movescamp
reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy

 

Oh i am sorry I thought you really looked at the state records or the NOAA website.

Please provide a link to the state records that you claim be looking at. Show me that the news article and I are both wrong instead of doing nothing.

Originally posted by Movescamp
I also thought you understood surface temperature and seasons.

I do.

Originally posted by Movescamp
In the summer the top is warmer in the winter it is opposite. Wow I thought even without any knowledge of the outdoors someone would know that.

So by your definition when a lake freezes over the water below it is colder than the ice?

It's pretty simple science the cold air and rain cool the SURFACE of the water.

Let me school you on the physics involved.... actually the science is a lot more complex than you are obviously aware of.

In order for ice to even begin to form on the surface of a LAKE, the temperature of the entire lake must drop.

You see, the cold air cools the surface water, and that makes the surface water more dense. This dense cold water than sinks to the bottom, and the warm less dense water rises to the top . The new warm water on top is then cooled by the air, and that water sinks to the bottom. That cycle continues.... cold water sinks, warm water rises, because of density. Ice can NOT form on the surface of a LAKE until ALL of the water in the ENTIRE LAKE has been cooled from top to bottom, that is because when warm water rises it would just melt any potential ice. Once all the water in the lake reaches about 4 degrees, then and only then can ice crystals start to form on the very surface BECAUSE ICE FLOATS. From there, the ice gets thicker and thicker, only because the water below it is only 1 to 3 degrees warmer than the ice. Only the ice is slightly colder, not the water below it. Last I checked, fish can't swim in ice, they swim below it.

So by your definition when a lake freezes over the water below it is colder than the ice?

Believe it or not, yes, that is possible and common... Water turns to ice a 0 degrees. Applying pressure to ice causes ice to melt, which is explained by Le Chattelier's principle. The pressure of water increases the deeper you go. So the water at the bottom of the lake can be BELOW 0 degrees and still not turn to ice because of the pressure. It's called supercooling. It is one of the main reasons lakes do not commonly freeze solid from bottom to top.

And again, cold water is more dense and sinks to the bottom displacing warm water which is less dense to the top, closer to where the ice would be.

However, what you did was make a straw man argument. LAKES do not act the same as OCEANS. Chesapeake Bay is the OCEAN.

In the ocean, it is very rare for the surface to turn to ice for several reasons. One of the mains reasons is because when the air cools the surface water, the cold surface water sinks to the bottom, and the warm water rises to the top making the surface water warmer than than the water on the bottom. This cycle continues forever because warm water will always flow from a different part of the ocean to the surface, and cold water will always sink to the bottom. Also, salt has an effect on the formation of ice as well.

So.... YOU ARE WRONG.

Originally posted by Movescamp
It's clear who doesn't comprehend what they read.

It's clear you haven't read a science book, or didn't comprehend what one says.

Originally posted by gift0fpr0phecy

Expert: Storm likely killed thousands of birds.

abclocal.go.com

Experts are investigating the deaths of more than 3,000 blackbirds that fell to the ground over a 1.5 square-mile area near Little Rock, just before midnight on New Year's Eve.

The director of Cornell University's ornithology lab says the most likely suspect is violent weather.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.thedailybeast.com
abclocal.go.com
www.datelinezero.com
www.deseretnews.com

haha..I can't imagine the type of person who is buying this story...it was fireworks..no it was a storm..no wait a minute it is natural..no wait a minute the birds were suicidal....now lets all put our heads back in the sand and hope everything will be alright

Originally posted by dreams n chains
They must have realized their "fireworks" explanation wasn't going to work?

Now they are back to blaming the weather. Yet, I have read that the severe weather was well out of the picture that day when the birds came crashing down that night.

It was. Some storms came through by they were out by of the area by 9:30. Calls about birds started coming in around 11:30 (before all the fireworks would be going off, incidentally). A woman walking her dog was hit by one of the birds. It's unlikely anyone would be walking a dog in weather that could be responsible for the death of 5000 birds.

Check out this radar map another member posted: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by primetime2123

Originally posted by gift0fpr0phecy

Expert: Storm likely killed thousands of birds.

abclocal.go.com

Experts are investigating the deaths of more than 3,000 blackbirds that fell to the ground over a 1.5 square-mile area near Little Rock, just before midnight on New Year's Eve.

The director of Cornell University's ornithology lab says the most likely suspect is violent weather.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.thedailybeast.com
abclocal.go.com
www.datelinezero.com
www.deseretnews.com

haha..I can't imagine the type of person who is buying this story...it was fireworks..no it was a storm..no wait a minute it is natural..no wait a minute the birds were suicidal....now lets all put our heads back in the sand and hope everything will be alright

edit on 7-1-2011 by primetime2123 because: (no reason given)

gift0fpr0phecy is buying the story star and flag and ya i agree with ya.

Wow must be a world wide storm then, that kills only one or two species at a time and only in select areas all within a week of each other.

Talk about weird weather.

Originally posted by Itachimaru
I'm not sure if anyone from my area has chimed in on this or not, I live in Little Rock, the tornadoes that we had on NYE were during the day, and our severe storm and tornado watches/warnings in my area and surrounding were rescinded at 3:00pm on the dot, there wasn't any above normal high winds the rest of the evening and there wasn't even any real rain to speak of (in my area), a few passing showers here and there but no big bang crash storms. Having been in a tornado when I was a kid I am kinda twitchy when the weather gets bad, I would have remembered there being a large evening storm as I do not drink and was home playing PS3 with my roommate.

Heya Itachimaru! I've been in Arkansas for ...HOLY ... !! 19 years. wow. I had no idea. I guess I am way older than I thought....anyway, yeah, the last of some small storms had moved through the Beebe area by 9:30 p.m.

I don't understand why people are trying so hard to defend the weather explanation when there was no weather in this area at the time this happened. You say it, I say it, other people say it, but it doesn't matter. Maybe it's the need to have an easily-accessible and rational explanation on hand. Not having one can certainly be nerve-racking.

And yes, we have lots of weather, and tornado's - never have I seen a boatload of dead birds after the fact - doesn't mean it can't happen - but I would think you would need actual weather for it too happen - and I would think too there would be (other) physical evidence (see any strewn twigs or debris in the media images?) and radar or at least reports of such weather - that correlates with the time of the bird death event.

I have no idea would could be the cause, but knowing the area and having some degree of reasoning skills, I do not believe it to be weather or fireworks related. I would prefer officials to simply state they don't know yet, and they don't, but that probably wouldn't go over well - there's no since of security in that.

reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy


You are correct I am impressed. I was over simplifying since you seem to not understand the rest of the process of coming to claim things as fact.

Here is a map of the surface temperature.
marine.rutgers.edu.../../regions/chess/sst/noaa/2011/img/110101.001.0654.n19.jpg

Showing how the temperature gets warmer towards the deep.

There are cold lines along the coast.

For the record i lived in Oklahoma City when the f5 tornado hit the winds in that storm got up to 200 to 300 mphs,there was great loss of homes and a few deaths,but i did not hear of thousands of birds dropping from the sky in that storm,and if you have seen news clips of that storm it was massive,i still refuse to believe weather played a part in some of the die offs of birds

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Stop accusing me of doing something that I am not doing!

I am not "buying" anything... I have concluded ON MY OWN after research and deductive reasoning and logic, that the weather (high winds) could have been the cause for the deaths of birds in Arkansas and Louisiana. And cold water temperatures could have been the cause of the fish. Over all, changes in climate could be a the root cause of that all.

Any sources from the media and experts are merely supporting MY OWN beliefs.

Originally posted by Movescamp
reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy

 

You are correct I am impressed. I was over simplifying since you seem to not understand the rest of the process of coming to claim things as fact.

Of course I am correct, I study physics...

You have no clue what you are talking about....

Originally posted by Movescamp
Here is a map of the surface temperature.
marine.rutgers.edu.../../regions/chess/sst/noaa/2011/img/110101.001.0654.n19.jpg

Showing how the temperature gets warmer towards the deep.

There are cold lines along the coast.

Now you are grasping at straws. That single map is the only data you are looking at?

Now, to prove you wrong once and for all...

Coldest Water in World Kills 2M Chesapeake Bay Fish

The death of 2,000,000 fish yesterday in the Chesapeake Bay, however, was definitely caused by weather -- the coldest water compared to normal (for this time of year) in the entire world!

The MD DNR image above shows that nearly every station in the Chesapeake hit a 25-year low average water temperature for the month, and the graph (red squares) shows how far some stations went below normal (blue dots) in 2010, and below all historical records (yellow area). In fact if you look at a sea-surface temperature anomaly map for the entire world, the only other area which shows these types of anomalies is the northwest coast of Florida. Nowhere was colder than normal than those areas.

weather.noaa.gov data

NOAA Sea Surface Temperature Anomaly Map
December 1 - 29, 2010

...you see, all this time I was right. All you had to do is 2 minutes of research... instead you decided to waste my time and your own time.

Surely you will see yourself out of this debate after such a defeat.