Analytical help needed - Cross comparison of Human (Alien?) Genetic markers, Civilization & Religion

Originally posted by Byrd
How old is civilization in India?
Around 7,000 years old if memory serves.

I believe 10,000+ years is more accurate, if the following is true:

news.bbc.co.uk...

Have you heard of this Byrd? This was almost 10 years ago, is there any news from this?

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


There are other cities.
About 9,000 years ago the levels of the oceans were about 400 feet lower than they are today.
They say the "Blue Hole" off the coast of Belize proves it.
Apparently, the Atlantian Capitol City is north of Grand Cayman Island and about 400 feet
underwater.
Those darn ice ages can be very destructive.
We are due for another one in about 1,500 years.
Maybe Al Gore can stop it????

Your onto to something. Lots and lots of findings have this 10,000 yr old stamp on it. Something very global and drastic happened at that particular period.

Palestinian(canaan) and Egyptians(mizraim) are not different races considering the fact they are brothers of the son of ham. One more thing that I believe, with a VERY POOR, literal interpretation and understanding of the bible you will not receive its full value. What Im saying is, people think that everyone descends from the 3 races of noah sons????which is a pile of sh*t. How can one dad produce three races???????I believe there were 3 sons with different characteristics (nothing physical), that migrated to different places and DUE TO ADAPTATION they changed accordingly. There is only one race, but in your science, considering all of the migrations in the bible, interpreted your way their must be at least more than 15.

I read somewhere that someone mentioned dragon lore and linked it to china, japan, and europeans. There is alot of obscure and challenging history that resides in the continent we refer to as africa. Africa is very rich in dragon lore as well as the Amerixas only they refer to 'it' as the serpent or feathered serpent. There is a very, very strong connection between ancient japan and ancient ethiopia (on a side note). They were the only two imperial nations on planet earth at one point.


One thing I will like to contribute to your theory that will drastically improve your map. Because their are obvious points that are vital but aren't present. There are like 9 arrows missing.
The southern part of central america, and in the northern and west part of the south american continent, there our tribes today that did NOT have any colonial contact. These are the most interesting genetic findings in my opinion, because most of these indigenous peoples share genes that are only found in groups that are native to east africa(semetic ethiopic groups) and to people that our native to the northern western tip of Africa. I have another fact that you can research for your self. There is STRONG evidence for those that are interested, the indigenous people and some sites of the south-western part of North America have been stated to be much older than the date given for the 'bering strait' migration. I just wanted to throw that out there. You should remake a map with the new findings.

one more point, Germans and other people that purport and deceivingly use the word aryan in the context used in the post lets me know that one has not studied the etymology and the true essence of the word. When one educates his 'self' in the origin of that particular word, one will realize that the 'aryans' have nothing to do with the north of anything, or any cold region for that matter.

Back to topic, I think that when we study people in order to really have a total understanding we have to take what these people say into consideration. We can speculate why they migrated or we can just simply go look into their records. Despite what modern scientist may say, every one has a record of some sort outside of genetics. Most of the more prominent civilizations and groups like Egypt for example states "our wisest men left to spread our philosophy all over the world". What is even more fascinating if you apply that key to research one can even find out why egypt was the center and how everything got to be there. This will obliterate the arrogant and ignorant notion of 'slavery' which is a common concept or misconception for that matter.
I will like to conclude by also saying there were not any external influence for a global change except the "subtle energies" that dictate the laws of nature. So yes they did all learn things at the same time, and performed the same task at the same time all of over the world. It only effected those that practiced 'techniques' they believed kept them in tune. Everyone didn't 'sync' up.
peach and love

Originally posted by BeastMaster2012

Originally posted by Byrd
How old is civilization in India?
Around 7,000 years old if memory serves.

I believe 10,000+ years is more accurate, if the following is true:

news.bbc.co.uk...

Have you heard of this Byrd? This was almost 10 years ago, is there any news from this?

I have heard of it, and now I'm not sure what I heard about it. Let me look it up. I know there was one 'find' that was actually bogus.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Food for thought: Of all the nations on Earth which one has the strongest most well diversified
DNA gene pool?

I'm not sure if that can be well answered since national boundaries are political ones.

That is an excellent point Byrd.

Much political expansion has occurred worldwide

Originally posted by Byrd

Oookayyy..

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Any help you can offer filling in the gaps would be appreciated.

Here is a world map of genetic markers traced through time. What I am most interested in is the change that occured 10,000 years ago. If we look at the key we can see that 7 different genetic markers have been identified around 10,000 years ago. (+/-) 5,000 years but who's counting?

The end of the last ice age.

INWT - OK explain to me how changes in the climate affect our genetic structure.

INWT - How many different races are identified in the bible?

Byrd
"race" is a political division... so it's hard to say. They would probably have seen the Egyptians and Palestinians as different races.

Perhaps

INWT - Genetic marker LLY22 - Aryans is the Aryan race which originated around K2 on the Tibetan Plateau

Next we have genetic marker M172 and M304 which seem to originate around Mecca (Where the holy meteor fell). The Abrahamic line then travels up through Israel, Greece and Italy as well as other regions around the mediteranean.

Next we have genetic marker M17 which travels to the area of Northern Iran.

Now let's look at Asia

Genetic marker M122 goes up through China while genetic marker M4 goes through Indo-China

Lastly we have South America

Genetic marker M3 goes through South America.

Aren't these basically the regions of the world where we find major civilizations and religions (+/-) 750 miles?

Byrd -
The Norse didn't really develop a "Civilization" (they had cheifdoms/thaneships but no great cities with a king over everything.

Maybe building giant stone structures that aligned with the stars just wasn't thier choice of a worthwhile activity. Their mythologies align just fine.

Byrd -
During what time period?

You mean during what time period did these migrations occur?

A question yet to be answered.

Byrd -
It's a stretch to call the Tlingit/Inuit a civilization (meaning place with large cities)) Ditto New Zealand -- again a nation of tribes.

Again I think this pertains more to your question about over what time period did these migrations occur.

Byrd -
Civilizations begin around India about 5,000 BC (which you don't mark)

I didn't mark anything. I just found and am putting my interpretation (Right or Wrong) on it. And I asked for help in interpreting my thesis.

Byrd -
In Egypt and Assyria/sumeria (north of the 10,000 year travel) they begin around 3,000-3500 BC

Olmecs (South America) around 1,000 BC

Romans and Greeks about 700 BC (before then they're mainly tribal)

Tibetan Empire doesn't begin until 700 AD.

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INWT - Aren't the mythologies of the people basically similar?

Not even close.

I wonder what Joseph Campbell has to say on the matter.

Byrd -
These markers can come from slaves (who bred with masters or other people of a distant land (slave trade was very popular) -- and reflect a lineage of a family that bred with many others. That doesn't say a thing about their beliefs (and a slave certainly wouldn't be allowed to transmit beliefs or share their beliefs.)

Hmmm, something to consider.

Perhaps there are some who are held in bondage.

INWT,

interesting thread so far.

Before i delve into this i have to ask . . . . what is the source of the graphic in the original post?

Originally posted by Byrd
"race" is a political division...

This is what's currently being taught in sociology classes all over America in an effort to "erase racism".

Frankly, it's flat out wrong.

Race is a euphemism for "Human Subspecies".

Subspecies are generally speaking, characterized by apparent physical differences between “isolated groups” within a species.

For example, a Pit-bull and a Siberian-Husky are two different Subspecies/Breeds of Dog.

The same way an “Asian” and a “Nordic” are two different Subspecies/Races of Humans. (Use whatever terms you like)

I love ya Byrd, and I feel bad sort of jumping down your throat here; but you know as well as i do that denying the existence of races will not eliminate racism; I maintain we need more of an understanding of each other, not less.

In my opinion, it’s almost as detrimental as telling young children there is no difference between girls and boys.

Young, old, man, woman, black, white, etc; we are all different. We all have strengths/advantages; we all have our weaknesses/handicaps.

But NOTHING makes anyone better than or superior to anyone else as a HUMAN BEING; because that is what we all are.

reply to post by In nothing we trust


Killing men and breeding with the local women would have been (still is) a significant factor in genetic influx and movement.

Looking at South America's mtDNA / yDNA line tells an interesting picture.

Women in those cases often did not retain and propagate their cultural roots and languages. I've even read accounts were to prevent that from happening, local "wives" taken had their tongues cut out just so they couldn't teach it to their children.

When people talk about the "displacement" and Britain becoming "Anglo Saxon" and the influx of the Roman lines it reminds me about how people in ivory towers don't even realize how much they retain their cultural biases. Because the WOMEN were still the same people. It was in influx of MEN. Women are "people" too. And those women were not Anglo-Saxons, and they were not Roman. They were local Celts. But they don't "count" in people's understanding of what it means to be a people.

Same issue with the "vikings" amoungst the Innu. Those Viking males were originally from Europe. But culture isn't in your genes. After several generations of breeding back into the local Innu populace, the Vikings with Innu mothers and grandmothers and great-grandmothers are INNU. That's why the corpses of those viking men up there show Innu mtDNA lines and Innu bodies. They are Innu. Culture isn't genetic.

reply to post by JPhish


I disagree that the large human grouping are sub-species. And I don't really care if people call them "races" or give those large groupings some other name.

However, I have to agree that pretending that those groupings don't exist is just disingenuous.

Originally posted by BeastMaster2012
I believe 10,000+ years is more accurate, if the following is true:

news.bbc.co.uk...

I looked it up, and it seems that there's a problem with the methodology and the dating hasn't been confirmed:
en.wikipedia.org...

There has been some problems with fraudulent finds. I don't know that this is fraudulent, but it hasn't been researched well.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Aren't the mythologies of the people basically similar?

Byrd - Not even close.

I wonder what Joseph Campbell has to say on the matter.

Emphasis on minute mark 0:37

Try from minute mark 4:07 min on

Emphasis on minute mark 5:26 to 5:31

Another emphasis on 6:38 to 7:20

What the hell is he talking about in minute mark 7:30 to 7:45? (Loss of serpent power?)




Caduceus

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cd6401a13ad0.jpg[/atsimg]

Gene

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/011c70be5dbe.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by JPhish

 

I disagree that the large human grouping are sub-species. And I don't really care if people call them "races" or give those large groupings some other name.

However, I have to agree that pretending that those groupings don't exist is just disingenuous.

i never said "large human grouping" are subspecies.

Subspecies emerge due to isolated grouping.

Wiki actually explains it quite well if you exclude the politically correct adages.

The characteristics attributed to subspecies generally have evolved as a result of geographical distribution or isolation.- From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's what makes an Eskimo look different from an African.

Darwin's Finches were all finches, but they had acquired slight variations in their physical appearance due to their grouped isolation on the different islands.

Whatever terms you would like to use is fine. But like you said, denying the existence of differences is disingenuous.

Wrong Direction Fallacy (logical fallacy of causation)

"All racists believe in race. Clearly, believing in races makes you racist."

In answering multiple things, I really wasn't terribly clear... so I'm hoping to clear things up.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
INWT - OK explain to me how changes in the climate affect our genetic structure.

It forces people to move. When resources become scarce, groups split up for survive -- to other valleys, other areas if they can. Those who are poorly adapted to live in the new environment die sooner than the others do... so it's "survival of the fittest."

INWT - How many different races are identified in the bible?

There aren't any differences in the "races"... they're all homo sapiens sapiens. It's used in a sociopolitical way to "marginalize" the "us an them." For example, in the 1800's the Irish were considered a race. So were the Jews. Then they were considered Caucasians.

It changes depending on who's in favor with the "hegemony" (technical term) and who isn't.

Byrd -
The Norse didn't really develop a "Civilization" (they had cheifdoms/thaneships but no great cities with a king over everything.

Maybe building giant stone structures that aligned with the stars just wasn't thier choice of a worthwhile activity. Their mythologies align just fine.

The question was about great civilizations developing in the path, so ... no, no huge cities there. But the myths of the Norse really aren't that similar to the myths of the Hindus. We do see certain hero figures and certain stories traveling in those genetic lines (cultural transmission).

Byrd -
It's a stretch to call the Tlingit/Inuit a civilization (meaning place with large cities)) Ditto New Zealand -- again a nation of tribes.

Again I think this pertains more to your question about over what time period did these migrations occur.

More to the "great civilizations arising within these areas" comment. The markers originate or move through this region.

I wonder what Joseph Campbell has to say on the matter.

I don't do videos, but I have read his books. His scholarship was excellent -- for that time. But research didn't stop and die with Campbell and he wasn't the only one working on the myths -- and he had some rather biased collections that he was working with (collections that were sort of dismissive of the culture and the people.) Late in life he gets onto a mystical kick which colors his scholarship.

Byrd -
These markers can come from slaves (who bred with masters or other people of a distant land (slave trade was very popular) -- and reflect a lineage of a family that bred with many others. That doesn't say a thing about their beliefs (and a slave certainly wouldn't be allowed to transmit beliefs or share their beliefs.)

Hmmm, something to consider.

Perhaps there are some who are held in bondage.

Someone asked which area had the most genetic diversity... and now I can answer it would be the area where the most wars occur. People storm in there, take slaves, rape and kill, blood gets mixed. Cultural attitudes determine whether the slaves are allowed to buy their freedom, breed, are castrated, or whatever.

Indigenous disease also affects survival.

The genetic markers say where people moved but now how or who. Where'd the map come from that you showed? I'm not finding much on these markers and I'd like to read more.

Now, in the Native Americans, there's an interesting lineage of iconography and certain tales/deities -- Eric Wolf did a lot of work on it. But genes don't tell everything.

Originally posted by Byrd
The genetic markers say where people moved but now how or who. Where'd the map come from that you showed? I'm not finding much on these markers and I'd like to read more.

yes, i'd really like to know where the graphic came from.

Originally posted by JPhish

INWT,

interesting thread so far.

Before i delve into this i have to ask . . . . what is the source of the graphic in the original post?

Yes source info.

One has to ask how accurate are the facts and did someone prior put their spin on it.

I got it from wiki

upload.wikimedia.org...

Upload Date:14:43 - 31 December 2009
Upload Username: KVDP

Hello,

My name is KVDP and I have been contributing to the Wikipedia since 2003. My particular focus is on environmental technology and climate change-related topics.

Note that I made 2 website, notably: kvdp.blogspot.com... and healingweb.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by Byrd

Byrd -
The Norse didn't really develop a "Civilization" (they had cheifdoms/thaneships but no great cities with a king over everything.

Maybe building giant stone structures that aligned with the stars just wasn't thier choice of a worthwhile activity. Their mythologies align just fine.

The question was about great civilizations developing in the path, so ... no, no huge cities there. But the myths of the Norse really aren't that similar to the myths of the Hindus. We do see certain hero figures and certain stories traveling in those genetic lines (cultural transmission).

I just watched a history channel documentary comparing the Hammer of Thor to the Thunderbolt of Zeus.

One could almost compare it (Hammer / Thunderbolt) to a Gavel?

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
One has to ask how accurate are the facts and did someone prior put their spin on it.

we're on the same page then.

i'm going to guess at some point the map image was connected to a specific article on wiki.

(by the way, your last post linked to the image URL of the map and not an article.)

is there perhaps a deleted article on wiki that might have what we're looking for?

Originally posted by JPhish

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

One has to ask how accurate are the facts and did someone prior put their spin on it.

we're on the same page then.

i'm going to guess at some point the map image was connected to a specific article on wiki.

(by the way, your last post linked to the image URL of the map and not an article.)

is there perhaps a deleted article on wiki that might have what we're looking for?

Ummm I am the article, which I never read. (I saw, I liked, I took, I interpreted)

The image was linked to an article, but i can't remember the search term I used on google to get there.We do live in an information wasteland.

I'd love to hear the uploaders input on the thread.

hello op

these may be helpful maps and charts

genetically at 10kbc alot does happen


ice age events in europe


people maps for those events

please note that the aurignacians were in persia and the gravettians made it to siberia at least
[ps. there were still aurignacian settlements in the carpathians [oltenia and muntenia] after the ice age .... believe it or not]

after the floods folks went back home


there are real scientists out there that have noted very clearly the Dené-Caucasian relationship in language and material culture.


there are museums in the us [ft walton beach fl. comes to mind] that could be dropped onto the danube if you changed the signs and noone would notice the stuff wasn't neolithic/eneolithic european. thats all the many effigy forms, most ceramic forms and metal/ceramic methodologies, mound building etc.
[see us in bulgaria!!]

Could our time stamping simply be off. I mean if we are all looking at something that was purported to have happened 10,000 years ago, and in reality it was 7-10,000 years, well then that 3,000 years makes a big difference. It takes the "mystery" out of portions of the equations. Just a thought.