Analytical help needed - Cross comparison of Human (Alien?) Genetic markers, Civilization & Religion

Any help you can offer filling in the gaps would be appreciated.

Here is a world map of genetic markers traced through time. What I am most interested in is the change that occured 10,000 years ago. If we look at the key we can see that 7 different genetic markers have been identified around 10,000 years ago. (+/-) 5,000 years but who's counting?

How many different races are identified in the bible?

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Key

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Let's start with Europe

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Genetic marker LLY22 - Aryans is the Aryan race which originated around K2 on the Tibetan Plateau

Next we have genetic marker M172 and M304 which seem to originate around Mecca (Where the holy meteor fell). The Abrahamic line then travels up through Israel, Greece and Italy as well as other regions around the mediteranean.

Next we have genetic marker M17 which travels to the area of Northern Iran.

Now let's look at Asia

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Genetic marker M122 goes up through China while genetic marker M4 goes through Indo-China

Lastly we have South America

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Genetic marker M3 goes through South America.

Aren't these basically the regions of the world where we find major civilizations and religions (+/-) 750 miles?

Aren't the mythologies of the people basically similar?

This thread is certainly worth a look. Assuming the authenticity of the data and the recent nature of these markers, the original poster here has revealed an interesting correlation. Can anyone more familiar with the field make an argument for causality?

Incidentally, there are no indications that the 10,000 YA markers are alike or related at all... Perhaps an environmental or evolutionary effect... This might be a good thread for another section, but which?

Originally posted by aerospace

... there are no indications that the 10,000 YA markers are alike or related at all...

I'm not a geneticist but I believe they are all independant genetic markers of each other.

Perhaps an environmental or evolutionary effect...

It seems as if that has been the question for awhile now.

I've been researching this stuff for a few years now and I don't think that alien gene splicing or artificial insemination by aliens is out of the question.

It's funny but years ago I would have laughed this stuff off as crazy.

This might be a good thread for another section, but which?

As it seems to cross the boundries of many different disciplines it is difficult to classify.

I think Ancient civilizations is good for now. Perhaps it will change as we learn more.

Two things come to mind instantly when I think of "ten thousand years ago" (give or take a millenium or two): The end of the last Ice Age, followed not long thereafter by the dawn of agriculture. It's worth asking whether these factors could have led to mass movements of large numbers of humans in waves across the globe, perhaps on a scale never previously known.

Changes associated with the end of the ice age were probably dislocating to many people, forcing them to move into different areas as food sources (animals, plants, etc.) increased or decreased. The geography itself changed -- coastlines pushed inland, rivers changed course, there were all sorts of climactic and weather aterations, etc. It was not necessarily a tale of woe and doom, though. A warmer post-ice-age world would have had more plants, allowing larger herds of grazing animals, in turn providing more meat for migrating hunters to hunt and greater amounts of plant life to gather. And then there are feedback loops: Perhaps large-scale human movement pushed different people together in both conflict and cooperation, enhancing the "tidal"-type movements noted, thus bringing even more people together, and so on, in a "snowballing" effect?

Also, the dawn of agriculture (a bit later in the historical record, but not too much later) increased the complexity of society. Territory became more firmly settled and "claimed as turf" by different groups: Could this have accelerated human migrations as the "losers" were squeezed out? Again, there could be many positive as well as negative reasons to stretch the legs during this time -- the ability to get food from places previously considered too marginal to live through agriculture or proto-agriculture could have made movement to new lands more attractive, and warmer weather opened up a lot more space to roam on without freezing to death. No doubt other conditions arising from the change played a role.

Just some thoughts. Will keep an eye on this thread.

reply to post by In nothing we trust


This would almost explain why most third world countries focus on religion the most then anything else. From time to time, man has always found a way take their teachings and spead it to new countries in order to deem them the "chosen ones"

Originally posted by silent thunder

Will keep an eye on this one.

You and me both.

We find pyramids and giant stone buildings in these regions.

Giant stone pillars, arches and such.

The birth of civilization it was called.

What sparked it?

There seems to be at least two different eras of giant stone carvings and movements in the past.

Pre 10,000 years and post 10,000 years.

Monoliths (Era 1): Organized stone carving and (Era 2) Symmetrical building.

Both seem to incorporate the symmetrical laying of these stones in alignment with stars and planetary movements. However in Era 2 they get more advanced.

The size of the stones that were cut and moved in both eras has always baffled me.

How does someone who lives in a tent/cave cut a 100 ton stone and erect it to perfectly align it with the movements of the earth, sun and the stars?

I'll give it a look later (the genetics. I have to go work on a dinosaur right now.) However I can say that the cultures are not the same and don't show much similarity (they all live in houses, but that's not something they learned from each other) -- even within the same genetic marker group there's a very large diversity of technology, philosophy, and belief systems.

But I'll give it a closer look later today.

This is good stuff (S & F) - especially coupled with that thread I came across, yesterday: Our Aryan Heritage: Learn about your real spiritual heritage.

I've had a few glasses of wine and I'm not terribly clever at the best of times but the thought occurred to me that as roughly 10,000yrs ago our lifestyles changed (ie from nomadic to sedentary?) I wondered if a 'response to disease' might account for some genetic changes?

Edited to Add: S&F


Edited to Add: not even sure if what i wrote was actually in any way anything to do with what your talking about

Originally posted by Versa

... roughly 10,000yrs ago our lifestyles changed (ie from nomadic to sedentary?)

Yeah but why?

We all learned how to farm at once?

I wondered if a 'response to disease' might account for some genetic changes?

I don't think anyone really knows except for the aliens of course.

Cool chart. S&F.

It seems to show that most races originated in the Middle East. It looks like a great many races also originated in the northern India region after migrating from the middle east.

It's interesting to see that they can trace even south American races back to India, at least it seems that way if I'm reading the chart right.

If all cultures originated from one common area, it would explain the common use of megalithic structures throughout the world. Maybe they were all dispersed after the tower of Babel fell as the Bible tells us.

Not sure how all this ties in to aliens and all that but, that's one of my strong areas.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by Versa

... roughly 10,000yrs ago our lifestyles changed (ie from nomadic to sedentary?)

Yeah but why?

We all learned how to farm at once?

I wondered if a 'response to disease' might account for some genetic changes?

I don't think anyone really knows except for the aliens of course.

Ah lol see I told you I had been drinking I missed the point entirely didn't I?

So what your saying (for the stupid me amongst us) is that in all these different parts of the world we suddenly discovered agriculture? At the same time something genetic happened?

I'm thinking (through an alcoholic haze) is that perhaps there was a nation that discovered seafaring? Trade = trade in goods, knowledge, disease and genes?

Sorry I think I'm being to thick atm to be involved in this discussion

Originally posted by Byrd

However I can say that the cultures are not the same and don't show much similarity (they all live in houses, but that's not something they learned from each other) -- even within the same genetic marker group there's a very large diversity of technology, philosophy, and belief systems.

There is definitely diversity in the different regions.

Perhaps that is by alien design?

If you're aim was to create diversity (And you were an alien) you would want to do so in several different regions of the world yes?

We find similar mythologies (i.e. Flood, Creation, Gods, etc) in these areas.

Interesting that we really don't find signs of civilization more than 10,000 years ago, but we do find evidence of previous peoples.

Some civilizations did arise near the areas depicted, but may have not have genetic markers within their population that changed around 10,000 years ago yes?

How old is civilization in India?

And I'm not creating an argument that only the people who have these genetic markers from 10,000 years ago were solely responsible for civilization. But you have to admit that there appears to be a correlation between the genetic markers that I mentioned and the areas that we find ancient civilizations.

Originally posted by Versa
I've had a few glasses of wine and I'm not terribly clever at the best of times but the thought occurred to me that as roughly 10,000yrs ago our lifestyles changed (ie from nomadic to sedentary?) I wondered if a 'response to disease' might account for some genetic changes?

No, and the lifestyle change coincides with the end of the glacial period. The world became warmer and dryer and people were pushed into river valleys to compete and cooperate for resources.

Response to disease does account for some genetic differences, though.

Oookayyy..

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Any help you can offer filling in the gaps would be appreciated.

Here is a world map of genetic markers traced through time. What I am most interested in is the change that occured 10,000 years ago. If we look at the key we can see that 7 different genetic markers have been identified around 10,000 years ago. (+/-) 5,000 years but who's counting?

The end of the last ice age.

How many different races are identified in the bible?

"race" is a political division... so it's hard to say. They would probably have seen the Egyptians and Palestinians as different races.

Genetic marker LLY22 - Aryans is the Aryan race which originated around K2 on the Tibetan Plateau

Next we have genetic marker M172 and M304 which seem to originate around Mecca (Where the holy meteor fell). The Abrahamic line then travels up through Israel, Greece and Italy as well as other regions around the mediteranean.

Next we have genetic marker M17 which travels to the area of Northern Iran.

Now let's look at Asia

Genetic marker M122 goes up through China while genetic marker M4 goes through Indo-China

Lastly we have South America

Genetic marker M3 goes through South America.

Aren't these basically the regions of the world where we find major civilizations and religions (+/-) 750 miles?

During what time period? The Norse didn't really develop a "Civilization" (they had cheifdoms/thaneships but no great cities with a king over everything. It's a stretch to call the Tlingit/Inuit a civilization (meaning place with large cities)) Ditto New Zealand -- again a nation of tribes.

Civilizations begin around India about 5,000 BC (which you don't mark)
In Egypt and Assyria/sumeria (north of the 10,000 year travel) they begin around 3,000-3500 BC
Olmecs (South America) around 1,000 BC
Romans and Greeks about 700 BC (before then they're mainly tribal)
Tibetan Empire doesn't begin until 700 AD.

Aren't the mythologies of the people basically similar?

Not even close.

You can see some cultural transferral of symbols and stories around those lines but they are not totally similar. Norse and Tibetan are extremely different (and different from Mongolia.)

These markers can come from slaves (who bred with masters or other people of a distant land (slave trade was very popular) -- and reflect a lineage of a family that bred with many others. That doesn't say a thing about their beliefs (and a slave certainly wouldn't be allowed to transmit beliefs or share their beliefs.)

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
There is definitely diversity in the different regions.

Perhaps that is by alien design?

I doubt it's designed. Designed cultures always follow certain patterns.

If you're aim was to create diversity (And you were an alien) you would want to do so in several different regions of the world yes?

No need. Cultural diversity is everywhere. Texas culture is different from Michigan culture, for instance. Texas African American culture is different from Texas Anglo culture. Move them away from each other and the differences become more pronounced.

We find similar mythologies (i.e. Flood, Creation, Gods, etc) in these areas.

Actually, we don't. We know what mythologies look like when people borrow them (a good example is the transfer of Spanish culture, folktales, mores, and so forth to the Americas.)

Interesting that we really don't find signs of civilization more than 10,000 years ago, but we do find evidence of previous peoples.

Given the scarcity of resources and small population, it would be unusual to find large cities. It takes a lot of resources (farms, domesticated animals, fuel, shelter) to support a city. So there's technology and other things to consider... you don't get 15,000 people showing up at one spot to say "let's make a city right now an a civilization." They rise from small villages that become locally important (so people have to settle in one area, and for that they need storage technology (grain bins, farmed resources).) The few cities that I know of that were inspired by "Hey, god told me to build a city here (that would be Armana, the pharaoh Ahkenaten and the god Re)" didn't fare well.

Some civilizations did arise near the areas depicted, but may have not have genetic markers within their population that changed around 10,000 years ago yes?

Hmm. Dunno.

How old is civilization in India?

Around 7,000 years old if memory serves.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

There is definitely diversity in the different regions.

Perhaps that is by alien design?

I doubt it's designed. Designed cultures always follow certain patterns.

Randomness could be considered a form of design.

Who's to say that aliens haven't been making small genetic modifications to the human species over time?

Don't we have myths about half-human half-animal beings such as the Minotaur or Pan?

Or even monuments like the sphinx?

The Chinese dragon is one of the most important mythical creatures in Chinese mythology. The Chinese dragon is considered to be the most powerful and divine creature and is believed to be the controller of all waters.

Chinese people sometimes use the term "Descendants of the Dragon" as a sign of their ethnic identity.

en.wikipedia.org...

Or the Chinese Goddess Nüwa? (half-human half-serpent)

reply to post by In nothing we trust

I can tell you that Earth has a hidden history.
There really was an Adam and an Eve but there are over 15 separate DNA cousins also on Earth
in order to create a well diversified DNA gene pool.
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Food for thought: Of all the nations on Earth which one has the strongest most well diversified
DNA gene pool?

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by Byrd
I doubt it's designed. Designed cultures always follow certain patterns.

Randomness could be considered a form of design.

Culture revolves around meaning and tradition. You don't have a tradition of (say) having most of the people in the village (in, say, Siberia or in Arizona) hide in their houses while the Ogre dances around the village looking for children to pack in her basket and take away to eat -- yet it has meaning and place in the Kwakiutl lore and legends and Siberia and Arizona are two places with the same genetic marker.

The Ogre has meaning but only in one place.

We do see cases where cultures have another tradition inflicted on them and they get modified (the Christmas processions in Mexico, where the Deer God comes out and dances with Jesus.)

There really would be no purpose to "designed randomness."

Who's to say that aliens haven't been making small genetic modifications to the human species over time?

That'd involve controlling breeding. That's kind of a difficult thing to do. Besides we live near a star (our sun) that puts out impressive amounts of radiation and is constantly changing (damaging) our genes.

Don't we have myths about half-human half-animal beings such as the Minotaur or Pan?

Or even monuments like the sphinx?

As far as I know they are presented as mythical or magical figures in the culture. Recent speculation is that some of this comes from the ancient people discovering and telling tales about old fossil bones.

The Chinese dragon is one of the most important mythical creatures in Chinese mythology. The Chinese dragon is considered to be the most powerful and divine creature and is believed to be the controller of all waters.

Chinese people sometimes use the term "Descendants of the Dragon" as a sign of their ethnic identity.

Or the Chinese Goddess Nüwa? (half-human half-serpent)

I love the dragon lore and have studied it as well. However, only the Chinese and Japanese cultures have a strong tradition of dragon lore -- the European dragons are very different and are more similar to the Nordic dragons. So you can argue a mythic lineage or similarity for the two distinct regions... and it wouldn't be surprising.

If you're talking about folklore lineages, we can clearly see these with a number of different types of tales. My favorite "hero" who started in one area and then became a hero of many other cultures is Nazaraddin Hodja (well, and Coyote, too.) Levy-Strauss was interested in this kind of lore -- I'm not sure if anyone's done formal papers tracing the lineage of the Hodja stories (he was a real person) but ... I'm getting far away from the original intent of this thread.

We see some traditions going along with the blood lines but they get modified as the people come into new areas... so the Nordic traditions aren't very close to the Indian ones and the Incan/Aztecan/Olmec traditions aren't very close to the Kwakiutl traditions.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
Food for thought: Of all the nations on Earth which one has the strongest most well diversified
DNA gene pool?

I'm not sure if that can be well answered since national boundaries are political ones.