Detroit in ruins

reply to post by mark1970


It does fascinate to wonder why it has taken years for a thread like this to garner so much attention on ATS. There have been plenty of accomplished photographers recording the urban decay in Detroit over the years.

Edit: you should check out the images of Chernobyl.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
With the amount of money the Pentagon "misplaced" (some 2 trillion dollars) they could have turned Detroit into Disneyland.

It is sad (and a true sign of the brainwashing) that you post has less stars than the post on the fist page blaming it on union workers.

Originally posted by LarryLove
Edit: you should check out the images of Chernobyl.

Know the ones you mean:

www.kiddofspeed.com...

Very very haunting...

what i want to know is, where did the bail out money go? Wasnt the auto industry kick started specifically GM? Im guessing its all gone over seas. Correct?

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Just discovered that ultimately it was the stubbornness of the unions which allowed this to come full circle.

When business demands too much, labor forms unions...


When unions demand too much, business fails altogether and everyone loses.

edit on 2-1-2011 by HunkaHunka because: (no reason given)

This is complete, utter, unadulterated BS.

The large car companies still made a profit even paying american workers.
The CEOs were getting the big bonuses from the record profits, the union wanted the workers to be allowed to share in.
The CEOs said "we are not sharing!", went to DC, payed off some politicians to change the rules regarding tarriffs and outsourcing of labor, and now hire chinese and koreans for pennies on the dollar.

How dare you blame the American blue collar worker. It was the traitors in DC and the CEOs of these large companies that did this. THEY KNOWINGLY SENT JOBS (AND BY EXTENSION GAVE AWAY TRILLIONS IN TAX PROFITS TO THE CHINESE AND OTHER ASIANS) OVERSEAS, SELLING OUT THE FUTURE SO THAT THEY COULD PERSONALLY ATTAIN WEALTH. FOR THEIR OWN PROFIT. How dare you blame the people on the bottom of the pyramid? What a twisted view.

What happens when Chinese peasants want a bigger piece of the pie?

Originally posted by andrewh7
The more you people spit on Detroit, the worse it will get. People like you who have likely never had want for anything in his life dictate to the poor and destitute how they should live. You should hope there is no God. Cold, apathetic people like yourself are the most pervasive evil this world has.

OK, got a question for you here, Highspeed. You say, "People like you who have likely never had want for anything in life." Glad you put that "likely" in there; sort of covering your butt, huh? Typical lawyer.

How do you know that the poster didn't work his fingers to get to the bone to get where he's at today?

And how many people that live in Detroit are third, fourth or fifth generation welfare recipients? Yeah, Detriot has lousy mass transit, but I'm certain if someone is motivated enough, they'd get out of that city and move to somewhere they could start over and work. Hell, my family was dirt poor Irish and Welsh; we managed to get out of the damn mines, make it here and work to get where we are now. I'm sure that leaving Detriot Rock City is easy in comparison. Just requires effort.

Get off the high horse; the view isn't that good up there.

Originally posted by randomname
so robocop was right. that movie has had more predictions come true than some of the best clairvoyants of all time.

ocp is now poised to take over.

But that conspiracy theory about how they put everything out in the open in movies is just tinfoil hat nuttery, eh?

Originally posted by jerico65
Hell, my family was dirt poor Irish and Welsh; we managed to get out of the damn mines, make it here and work to get where we are now. I'm sure that leaving Detriot Rock City is easy in comparison. Just requires effort.

Get off the high horse; the view isn't that good up there.

I love this viewpoint, so hilariously hypocritical and doesnt realize it. I love hearing about how someones relatives worked so hard to overcome the grit and grime and better their family, so if they can do it, why not everyone else? Its easy, right?

Who says your relatives might have gotten an opportunity that others didnt (maybe even through skullduggery)? Who says his situation is/was the same as everyone elses? Irish were never persecuted in America as blacks and indians were, so had better chances to better themselves.

You would think since your family supposedly came from the same place, you would be more sympathetic toward the plight of others, rather than looking down your nose at them and telling them to "buck up." while you walk around spouting pro corporate beliefs.

Then you tell the other poster to "get off his high horse"! LOL that is RICH my friend, very RICH.

Originally posted by Chakotay

It was the stupid designers that made ugly inefficient cars and the engineers who made them from metal that rusted out in two seasons with mega-engines that spewed and sucked a boatload of gasoline a day.

It was the gov't that made it impossible for innovative startups like DeLorean to survive.

Not sure what point you're making here.

DeLoreans were made in Northern Ireland - ultimately it was the British Government that refused to bail them out when no one bought their cars. they needed their bailout because no one was buying their cars. Because they were expensive to buy, expensive to own (ever tried to pound a small dent out of stainless? you can't. replacement is the only option.), gas guzzling, infernally ugly in the eyes of the buying public (might have helped if paint was an option), and not very good.

Anyway, Detroit. There's a lot of cities in the US - Buffalo always springs to mind for me - that have suffered a similar fate. Finger-pointing is the last refuge in this case, because the reasons for the decline are on the shoulders of everyone. And no-one. Buffalo (which has a fascinating history) started to die when the Erie Canal dropped out of use - because it was more efficient to use the canal in Canada, or rail, or road. New Orleans's problems started the same way, with other ports, rail and road transport (and streamlining of the port) causing the core jobs to disappear.

When you take away the main reason for a city being somewhere - like Buffalo on the Erie, or NOLA on the Mississippi, or hundreds of other places large and small across North America, quite often there's nothing that can be done except to dramatically downsize the city. Think about it: even if Detroit was the safest city in the USA, would you locate a large manufacturing company there? Location is everything - and there are a lot of cities with a much better location than Detroit, with better access to markets, which makes for a cheaper product. The problem isn't that Detroit or Buffalo or New Orleans have bad locations, it's just that other places have better ones.

The problems start when people - usually with the best interests of the city in mind - begin to envision ways of holding off the inevitable. Tourism programs (which bring people but not a lot of real jobs), feel-good public works programs that amount to painting over the cracks, white elephants like new stadiums... the list is pretty long. They tend to be well intentioned for the most part, but they're never a solution - and the only success they ever have is providing political fodder for the opposition in the next election cycle. Oh, and occasionally someone makes a few bucks under the table.

Detroit. Maybe the solution is to declare eminent domain on all the outlying areas, bulldoze them and plant trees. Move everyone into the city center, give 'em free education and free housing for a year and interest free business start up loans, and business education classes for anyone that wants them. That's what I'd do - but if you look closely, you'll see that there's a billion ways for that plan to fail.

Maybe the collapse of cities is inevitable, and the only places that will survive the test of time are the ones that achieve the kind of self-sustaining economy that exists in the mega-cities.

Originally posted by shai hulud
There is only one reason for this travesty. The fact is, everyone is scared and too pc to speak the truth.

Animals.

So please, step up and be brave! Dont be scared! Tell us, what is the ONE REASON for this travesty? Cmon, spit it out! What, are you scared?

reply to post by NadaCambia


Great observation. We are seeing the effects of our own neglect.. OURS... meaning we all are in this together as a human race (we really should be working together as opposed to hating, killing, disliking one another. Our neglect is so bad that it affects more than the human race. It affects all life. We`re killing ourselves and everything around us. We need to change our Selves if we want to change things like this. We Can, but it takes your action.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by shai hulud
There is only one reason for this travesty. The fact is, everyone is scared and too pc to speak the truth.

Animals.

So please, step up and be brave! Dont be scared! Tell us, what is the ONE REASON for this travesty? Cmon, spit it out! What, are you scared?

The city is infested with them.

A few posters have said that there is a large Iraqi immigrant community to Detroit. For all anyone says about immigrants (and I don't care for any right-wing thoughts), they now how to set up and make successful small businesses to service the community. Can any member from Detroit comment on this?

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
I love this viewpoint, so hilariously hypocritical and doesnt realize it. I love hearing about how someones relatives worked so hard to overcome the grit and grime and better their family, so if they can do it, why not everyone else? Its easy, right?

Did I say it was easy? Did I? How about backing up, finding that line in my post, and quoting it here? Go ahead, we're all waiting.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Who says your relatives might have gotten an opportunity that others didnt (maybe even through skullduggery)? Who says his situation is/was the same as everyone elses? Irish were never persecuted in America as blacks and indians were, so had better chances to better themselves.

Skullduggery? Yeah, of course, all white people cheated their way to success. Give me a break!

Nah, they just worked hard on farms and businesses, lost a lot in the depression, got wounded and killed in wars. Minor things like that.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
You would think since your family supposedly came from the same place, you would be more sympathetic toward the plight of others, rather than looking down your nose at them and telling them to "buck up." while you walk around spouting pro corporate beliefs.

Did I spout pro corporate beliefs? Hmmm....must be like that quote where I said it was easy. So, you have two chores to do: Find the quote where I said it would be easy, and one where I was "spouting pro corporate beliefs".

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Then you tell the other poster to "get off his high horse"! LOL that is RICH my friend, very RICH

Whatever. Wait, "Rich" I get it! That was a funny pun!!

This is truly sad. To see a great American city decline in such a harsh manner is both unacceptable and disturbing.

Pictures speak a thousand words, and the only word I see being repeated is "disgusting." The people who run that city need to get their # together and build it back up. Either that or the Fed needs to step in and do something.

Originally posted by silvertip83
This is truly sad. To see a great American city decline in such a harsh manner is both unacceptable and disturbing.

I agree.

Originally posted by silvertip83
Pictures speak a thousand words, and the only word I see being repeated is "disgusting." The people who run that city need to get their # together and build it back up. Either that or the Fed needs to step in and do something.

The Fed? They'd screw up a.........well, everyone knows what they'd screw up.

Handouts aren't the answer, unless it's bus and plane tickets to leave. Unless there's some sort of industry or business there that can employ a lot of people like the car companies did, I don't see much changing in Detroit.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
The large car companies still made a profit even paying american workers.

You seem to have slept through a decade or more of history. Two of the Big Three failed and had to be bailed out. GM had to be bailed out a second time in fact and its survival is still in doubt due to it having no way to meet the retirement obligations imposed through extortion tactics by corrupt Unions. The only reason Ford held on is factories in the South and better management. They knew you can't pay assembly line workers wages comparable to jobs that require years of schooling and survive. I also believe their management never took the bribes I believe GM and Chrysler's management took from the Unions.

The Unions are in fact the main cause of Detroit's demise. The drugs and decay are an after effect of their rape of the industry in that area. Most jobs that move overseas in fact do so because of Union activities. You simply can't pay assembly line workers more than a Family Practitioner (MD) makes and survive in the global market. That is just a fact.

Might I ask your source of misinformation. Are you in a Union and protecting your own cash cow? If so, why do you believe a Union Worker should earn more than the market can support for jobs that require only days of training and no real skills or education? Just because you pay protection money to a legalized protection racket called a Union and engage in acts of extortion to get your demands for excessive wages and benefits? The Unions knew the car companies would fail all along. No thinking person was fooled by that.

You notice how Obama has bribed the Unions over and over again since taking office? You notice how he is giving special treatment to Union Workers doing the exact same jobs as non-Union Workers? You really think this is not all by design? We are well along the path laid out by the Progressives and the NWO fanatics and the Unions are a huge part of this. The Unions knew that industry would crumble under their weight and you did not see the government step in and do anything did you? You don't think they knew that GM and Chrysler would fail due to Union Contracts? Only those lying to themselves could be that naive or those lying to protect their own interests.

Why should a Garbageman in NYC earn $130,000 while at the same time entry level people with Masters Degree's and higher earn half that? Make any sense to you at all?

We live 55miles from Toledo ....My son was coming home from Job Corp for Christmas,the bus driver did make it on time for him to transfer.So he was stuck in Toledo.They were going to close the bus terminal at 10pm.It was about 9pm...I drove up there to get him - I made on time - a minute more and he would have been on the street with the crackheads and the bums that were in the terminal to get warm...Its bad here in Ohio...Trust me...Lots of families doubling up In homes...In my case Tripling up ...to share the bills...

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The Unions are in fact the main cause of Detroit's demise. ... Most jobs that move overseas in fact do so because of Union activities.

Since the '80s, the unions(other than the civil servants union) have slowly been giving back all their gains. They know they can't survive without their employers. So they didn't kill Detroit. What killed the American working class is 'free trade,' which encourages employers to export all the jobs. It has become a race to the bottom.

Originally posted by Blaine91555


Why should a Garbageman in NYC earn $130,000 while at the same time entry level people with Masters Degree's and higher earn half that? Make any sense to you at all?

In Los Angeles bus drivers earn more than PHDs in engineering.
While working in the post office in 75,during a nearby factory
strike,machinists who took temporary jobs in the PO said they might as well stay because the pay was almost what they made and the work required no thinking or responsibility.
In 79 my Mechanical Engineer boss said he was moving from NY to Arkansas where garbagemen got paid garbagemens wages and engineers got paid engineers wages.
Firemen work 2 days a week,retire in 20 years and collect
a fat pension for 50 years.
Corruption has done this.
And there is no respect for intelligence in America. Scientists,engineers,inventors are portrayed as madmen
and nerds.
When I was designing machine parts to a ten thousandth of an inch I was making less money than a grocery clerk in California.