No Lawsuits Prove No Conspiracy!

This whole thing does come down to a Psychology of AUTHORITY.

People that can't think for themselves about some grade school physics need AUTHORITY to tell them what to think. So they presume the EVERYONE ELSE should need Authority to tell them what to think also.

So we have psychologists and psychiatrists that can't comprehend Newtonian physics. And these people should be allowed in court to talk about SANITY? ROFL

Yeah, NINE YEARS and our architects and structural engineers say nothing about the distributions of steel and concrete in skyscrapers. Yes, 9/11 has revealed a HUGE educational and psychological problem. Intelligence is what AUTHORITY says it is. As in think what you are told.

psik

reply to post by samkent


I believe the number is 560 mph according to the NTSB.

The average air to air missile flies in between mach 2 and mach 3, with some achieving mach 4.

reply to post by Alfie1


Assuming the mayor of Shanksville, who wouldnt seem to have an agenda that would require him to lie:

"I know of two people -- I will not mention names -- that heard a missile," Stuhl said. "They both live very close, within a couple of hundred yards. . .This one fellow's served in Vietnam and he says he's heard them, and he heard one that day.

I'm sure I could find others with a quick google search if that is insufficient.

Here are eyewitness accounts, though most probably won't accept this as evidence:

Eyewitnesses A few miles north of Lambertsville, yard man Terry Butler, 40, was toiling away at Stoystown Auto Wreckers. He thought it was odd that a plane was in the area. He'd heard that all air traffic nationwide had been halted after the World Trade Center disaster about an hour earlier. "It dropped out of the clouds," too low for a commercial flight, Butler said. The plane rose slightly, trying to gain altitude, then "it just went flip to the right and then straight down." He radioed back to his office, telling coworkers Homer Barron, 49, and Jeff Phillips, 30, what he had seen. "I told them a plane crashed. At first they didn't believe it, because you know, we do joke around." Then Barron saw smoke and called 911. … Barron and Phillips drove to the crash scene and found a smoky hole in the ground. A few firefighters had already begun pouring water onto the debris. "It didn't look like a plane crash because there was nothing that looked like a plane," Barron said. "There was one part of a seat burning up there," Phillips said. "That was something you could recognize." "I never seen anything like it," Barron said. "Just like a big pile of charcoal." Lee Purbaugh, 32, working just his second day at Rollock Inc., a scrap yard next to the reclaimed strip-mine land, looked up from operating a burning torch to see the jetliner just 40 feet above him. "I couldn't believe this," Purbaugh said. "I heard it for 10 or 15 seconds and it sounded like it was going full bore," said Tim Lensbouer, 35, Purbaugh's coworker. The ground shook and the air thundered as the jetliner slammed into the ground about 300 yards away, Purbaugh said. A mushroom of flame rose 200 feet and disappeared. Then there was a curtain of black smoke and finally a trail of fire as pieces of the fuselage shot hundreds of yards into the woods. "My instinct was to run toward it, to try to help" said Nina Lensbouer, Tim's Lensbouer's wife and a former volunteer firefighter. "But I got there and there was nothing, nothing there but charcoal. Instantly, it was charcoal." … Charles Sturtz, 53, who lives just over the hillside from the crash site, said a fireball 200 feet high shot up over the hill. He got to the crash scene even before the firefighters. "The biggest pieces you could find were probably four feet [long]. Most of the pieces you could put into a shopping bag, and there were clothes hanging from the trees." Ten miles away, at a warehouse near Berlin, employee Don Miller and co-workers felt their building shake.
(7
) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It came in low over the trees and started wobbling," said Tim Thornsberg, a resident of Somerset County, who was working near an old strip mine when he saw the plane. "Then it just rolled over and was flying upside down for a few seconds ... and then it kind of stalled and did a nose dive over the trees. It was just unreal to see something like that." … Charles Sturtz, who lives about a half-mile from the crash site, said he saw the plane in the air for a few seconds, and saw no smoke, heard no explosions before the crash and saw no other planes in the sky. The plane was heading southeast he said, and had its engines running. "It was really roaring, you know. Like it was trying to go someplace, I guess, " the 53-year-old carpenter said. (6)

Kelly Leverknight was watching news of the attacks on New York and Washington when she heard the plane. It sounded like it was flying low above her home in rural Pennsylvania, moving from west to east. It was an odd enough sound that she stepped outside to have a look. "I heard the plane going over and I went out the front door and I saw the plane going down," said Leverknight, 36. "It was headed toward the school, which panicked me, because all three of my kids were there. "Then you heard the explosion and felt the blast and saw the fire and smoke." Leverknight and dozens of her neighbors raced to the Shanksville-Stonycreek School where they found their children safe. … Witnesses said they thought the wings of the Boeing 757 were wagging from side to side as it plunged toward the earth. … "When it decided to drop, it dropped all of a sudden, like a stone," said Tom Fritz, 63. Fritz was sitting on his porch on Lambertsville Road, about a quarter mile from the crash site, when he heard a sound that "wasn't quite right" and looked up in the sky. "It was sort of whistling," he said. "It was going so fast that you couldn't even make out what color it was." … Terry Butler works at Stoystown Auto Wreckers, which is in the flight path of the doomed plane. Butler was pulling a radiator from a 1992 Dodge Caravan when he heard the plane's engines. He was listening to the news and was surprised because he had heard that all flights nationwide were grounded, and he didn't think there were supposed to be any planes in the air at the time. He looked up and behind him saw the plane come out of the clouds, low to the ground. "It was moving like you wouldn't believe. Next thing I knew it makes a heck of a sharp, right-hand turn." He said the plane banked to the right and appeared to be trying to climb to clear one of the ridges, but it continued to turn to the right and then veered behind a ridge, "like somebody grabbed the wheel." He said the plane disappeared behind a tree line on a ridge. "I knew it was going to crash," Butler said. About a second after it disappeared, he heard the boom and saw the smoke rise above the trees. "It was eerie."

Eric Peterson of Lambertsville looked up when he heard the plane. "It was low enough, I thought you could probably count the rivets," Peterson said. "You could see more of the roof of the plane than you could the belly. It was on its side."

The article goes on, but you get the point. Notice how all the eyewitness claim they saw with their own eyes a plane. Kinda hard for a plane not to exist at impact when those who where there saw it? Furthermore, no one stated anything about seeing a missile or hearing anything of the like. Most likely that came from the noise of the engines and someone used the " missile " as a metaphor, and it was taken out of context.

source: www.unitedflight93.com...

reply to post by Whereweheaded


The entire official story is without merit.

The United States government is a known liar, there is sufficient evidence to indicate prior knowledge of the event, and it conveniently gave an excuse to go to war.

Incidentally, it is spelled hearsay

reply to post by BigTimeCheater


Theres no argument there. The governments story has many " loop holes " as I've said before. With the disappearance of the flight recorders, ( which is never happened in 47 years of usage ), and the quick removal of the debris from ground zero, not to mention that the lawn of the Pentagon was covered with type II, and dirt, as to avoid any investigation of the crime scene....needless to say, there are many unanswered questions, and debatable topics within the event in its self.

Question is, will we ever find out? Most likely not~ It's a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, rolled into puzzle....

Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
reply to post by Alfie1

 

Assuming the mayor of Shanksville, who wouldnt seem to have an agenda that would require him to lie:

"I know of two people -- I will not mention names -- that heard a missile," Stuhl said. "They both live very close, within a couple of hundred yards. . .This one fellow's served in Vietnam and he says he's heard them, and he heard one that day.

I'm sure I could find others with a quick google search if that is insufficient.

In a few posts you have gone from " numerous witnesses state they saw a missile impact Flight 93 " to hearsay about a couple of anonymous witnesses who allegedly heard one.

I am not trying to have a go at you, but I do think this is typical of trutherism. Everything I am pointed to just falls apart with minimal research.

reply to post by Alfie1


Though I am personally on fence at this point, I too have noticed the abundance of " witnesses" that get diminished down to one or two people at best. Would be interesting to see another investigation be implemented by an unbiased investigative team.

The entire official story is without merit.

That’s close to having your head in the sand. The OS says there were planes and people saw planes. That’s the biggest part of the OS.

and the quick removal of the debris from ground zero,

It took months. I would hardly call that quick.

Would be interesting to see another investigation be implemented by an unbiased investigative team.

Could it be that at the time of the original investigation there were more than enough credible witnesses to put the answers way beyond a shadow of a doubt? Do we need a bus load of nuns to say they saw planes before we accept that there were planes?

And if anyone had any proof that any part of the OS is a lie they would have gone to court to get it estabilished as such.

The rest is nothing more than a bunch of people making a name for themselves or refusing to accept reality.

reply to post by Alfie1


I stated I was mistaken in stating there were witnesses to an actual missile impact, to stating they heard one.

How many eyewitness accounts would you like affirming the fact that they heard a missile?

On a sidenote, do you have any evidence backing up the official story other than the word of the United States government?

The bottom line is that neither I, nor you, know exactly what happened. Hopefully we can agree on the fact that the government has zero credibility, and anything they say should not be trusted without verification.

Personally, my theory is this:

We all know 2 planes hit the WTC. We do not know for a fact what hit the pentagon, only that something did. Surely one of the numerous cameras around that building had to have captured an image of a full blown airliner either impacting, or about to impact the building. The lack of any substantiating evidence damages the official story.

You and I are only speculating as to what happened to flight 93. I dont think anyone would fault anyone for a shootdown, but the coverup would destroy any credibility.

IMO, the entire event was a calculated event, with prior knowledge of both the United States government (not all, just certain segments) and the nation of Israel.

The first step to solving any crime is to ask cui bono, or who benefits. There are only 3 entities that realized a benefit from the events of September 11:

1. The defense industry. Trillions of dollars in lucrative contracts to keep the war machine running smoothly. That shows motive.

2. Israel. From the Israeli instant messaging firm Odigo admitting its employees received a prior warning

Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

haaretz source

to the former Israeli counter terror operator Daniel Lewin ,who just happened to be on one of the hijacked planes, the evidence pointing to Israeli involvement is simply irrefutable. Add in the fact that the event would basically thrust Israel's big badass friend, the U.S., squarely between Israel and Iran, and the motive is too much to ignore.

3. The United States government. What better excuse to exterminate the liberties of the American people than to "protect them from those pesky terrorists". From the Department of Homeland Security, to the Patriot Act, it appears the government was just chomping at the bit to institute these new policies and the rights and freedoms of American citizens be damned.

All 3 had motive, and all 3 had the ability to pull it off.

Now, whats more likely, the above 3 were involved, or 19 idiots managed to pull off the greatest attack in the history of the nation?

reply to post by samkent

and the quick removal of the debris from ground zero,

It took months. I would hardly call that quick.

Don't you think, if the OS was that " Terrorist " performed this heinous act, that ground zero would have been deemed a crime scene, which would have been thoroughly sifted through, taking atleast a year to piece back together what truly happened? A few months, which is in FACT quick for a construction clean up of that magnitude, further suggests a cover up.

How would you explain, that out of all the debris, nothing, not even a phone, nor desk, or chair survived, but yet " government " workers conveniently find a half burnt piece of Passport that conveniently has a picture and name still in tact?

Does that not raise questions in the OS? Or how bout the fact, that in 47 years that flight recorders boxes have been used, never, not one, has NOT been recovered. And yet the OS, claims that the flight recorder boxes were never found?

Surely you can't be that naive to these facts?

reply to post by samkent

sammy, baby....whatcha thinkin....oh the evidence is beyond the discernment of those without the ability to see the possibility's...now, what we need you to do is to come on down here to my house and we'll be able to change your mind by talking to you face to face. i have a thousand things to tell you of !!
i'm a pilot and a technical, logical thinker !

Originally posted by GBP/JPY
reply to post by samkent

 

sammy, baby....whatcha thinkin....oh the evidence is beyond the discernment of those without the ability to see the possibility's...now, what we need you to do is to come on down here to my house and we'll be able to change your mind by talking to you face to face. i have a thousand things to tell you of !!

i'm a pilot and a technical, logical thinker !

edit on 29-12-2010 by GBP/JPY because: A DETECTIVE, TOO.!!

And I'm totally smashed right now ?

Hopefully we can agree on the fact that the government has zero credibility,

Nope. I totally disagree.

The defense industry is not one monolithic company. It’s made up of dozens (or more) individual companies. Each with multiple people in charge of various sections. For all of these people to get together an plan an attack of such magnitude, on their own country, would get them the death penalty when caught. Do you really think dozens of company heads would jointly assume they could keep the whole thing secret.

to the former Israeli counter terror operator Daniel Lewin ,who just happened to be on one of the hijacked planes, the evidence pointing to Israeli involvement is simply irrefutable.

Were there any Canadians on board? Maybe they were involved? How about Puerto Ricans? I’ll bet they were trying to break off from the US! Your connection is just in your mind.

The United States government. What better excuse to exterminate the liberties of the American people than to "protect them from those pesky terrorists".

Correct me if I am wrong but don’t the people of the government have to eventually walk through the same TSA lines as you and I? Isn’t their phones subject to the same wiretaps? Wouldn’t they be subjecting themselves to the same liberty restrictions?

Now, whats more likely, the above 3 were involved, or 19 idiots managed to pull off the greatest attack in the history of the nation?

One idiot in Okalahoma City killed 168 and injured 680 more.
168 x 19 = 3192 Hmmm Interesting relation there.

You just don’t want to believe such a simple plan worked as well as it did.

Or how bout the fact, that in 47 years that flight recorders boxes have been used, never, not one, has NOT been recovered.

You are wrong. Four were recovered.
And it only took me a quick Wiki search to find out.

reply to post by samkent


WRONG, you claim you did a wiki search? How is it I too did a wiki search and found evidence to support that you did not research nor submit any sources to back up your claim?

2001-09-11 11 American Airlines Boeing 767-223ER North World Trade Center, New York City Neither flight recorder found, destroyed in the building.[8]
Two recovery workers stated that they observed FBI agents recovering flight recorders at the WTC site.[9] 2001-09-11 175 United Airlines Boeing 767-200ER South World Trade Center, New York City Neither flight recorder found, destroyed in the building.[8] See above.

source: en.wikipedia.org...

*snip*

According to the federal authorities controlling Ground Zero, the black boxes from the two crashed 767s, Flight 11 and Flight 175, failed to turn up in the rubble taken from the site. 4 The 9/11 Commission Report backs the FBI's story, flatly stating: "The CVRs and FDRs from American 11 and United 175 were not found."

source: 911research.wtc7.net...

What was that you were saying? That's right...nothing. No sources, means no merit. *snip*

Mod Note: Civility & Decorum are Expected - Please Review This Link

Both boxes from flight 93 and 77 were recovered.

It kind of shoots down the conspiracy of "no boxes were found'.

Originally posted by samkent
Both boxes from flight 93 and 77 were recovered.

It kind of shoots down the conspiracy of "no boxes were found'.

The poster didn't say "no boxes were found".

You need to reread what was said because you have misunderstood.

Anyway, even if he had said that, you were atill wrong - and by the same margin: 2

Here is the link.

here


And a C&P from it.

According to the 9/11 Commission Report, both black boxes from Flight 77 and both black boxes from Flight 93 were recovered. However, the CVR from Flight 77 was said to be too damaged to yield any data. On April 18, 2002, the FBI allowed the families of victims from Flight 93 to listen to the voice recordings.In April 2006, a transcript of the CVR was released as part of the Zacarias Moussaoui trial.