Colder or hotter? Both ! me thinkst.

reply to post by MavRck


I understand the simple explanation behind the colder winters.... but I have a few questions. I am an economics and philosophy student.... not a science student.

Wouldn't the summer months yield higher amounts of the cold water from the glaciers, and make the summers colder as well? In fact, wouldn't this trend of colder weather be greater during summer months than winter months because slight warming in a Greenland winter wouldn't make the ice less frozen while in the summer months, it would make a much more significant difference?

How much additional glacial runoff does it take to lower the temperture of the currents and the weather as a whole?

Disclaimer: I am not trying to debate you or bait you into saying something. My answer to the climate change question is "I am not a scientist." But I am curious. (I do however have ideas of what we need to do about it that do not depend on what the causes are... I am an ECON guy.... lol)

Originally posted by The_Phantom
reply to post by SkurkNilsen

 

Let's just not do anything and die, that sounds fun. And we can survive an ice age. Also you exaggerate the amount of water displacement, by like an entire ocean.

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edit on 25-12-2010 by The_Phantom because: (no reason given)

I never said "do nothing", but I would prefer doing something realistic.

Pumping the entire amount of the ice caps (around the amount of the mediterranean sea) into a desert is not at all realistic.
So I'm sorry, sea, not ocean, OK?

First of it is salt water, if you don't want to go get the ice itself before it melts.
Second the desert is a desert for a reason, there are no plants to keep the water there, you would just make a river that would wash the desert even further, possibly destroying even more fertile land.

If you found some way to separate water and salt on that scale, then it would be a better idea to pump it into the rainforest, but it already has water enough (hence the name rainforest).

One thing that could work, speaking of salt, is to pump salt water into the skies in large quantities around the poles to shade them from the heating.



like so for example.

Originally posted by freedish
I think this is hilarious! I've been a skeptic since Al Gore filled his pockets from 'An Inconvenient Truth' (A.K.A a very convenient lie) and since then I have been mocked by my friends because of my skepticism...And as I'm sitting at my computer desk here in Atlanta Ga, snow is piling up for the 7 straight hour. Now there's almost 3 inches. And they're saying it might continue snowing through tomorrow. Take in consideration that it's already snowed 2 times before this and that winter has just started and all I can think of is what a joke global warming is...

edit on 25-12-2010 by freedish because: Jesus Loves Me Yes I Know, For The Bible Tells Me So.

For someone who denies global warming, you sure are providing good evidence of it. When the oceans get warmer, the molecules become more active (the definition of heat) and gain enough energy to phase change to a gas -water vapor. That warming dumps a lot more moisture into the atmosphere which, when cooled by normal late December temperatures, dumps more snow than normal. An then you have the resultant evaporative cooling at about 2300kJ per pound of water. It's just not as simple as "It's snowing here where I happen to be standing this 4th day of Winter in 2010, therefore, global climate change is a myth.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


My theory slightly differs from the status quo (also supportive) ... It is thought that there are some sort of gases being released causing the heat etc, however my explanation is slightly more simple...

We're slightly closer to the sun...

The moon gets further away from us every year (about a fingernail)... Our rotation around the sun is varying (it goes up and down and likely closer/further as we are completely a near 5000 year long 'wobble' '

The ANGLE as well as PROXIMITY is melting to ice (as MARS CAPS ARE MELTING TOO WHICH IS FURTHER AWAY AND HAS ZERO POPULATION) which changes the currents and weather systems literally all over the world as the antarctic is displaced into the oceanic mass and snow/rain does the rest.

It would not be colder during 'summer'... it will be MUCH hotter... (I wish I knew how to explain this.... 'better')

reply to post by 4nsicphd


Then they need to change the title. Global warming is inaccurate. Call it Global Climate Change...

The hot weather causes more meltage so more normal water hits salt water causing cooling is the right answer methinks.

What bugs me about global warming is that everytime a volcano erupts its puts more crap in the atmosphere than man ever has.

Heck, they say cows farting do more damage than man, they have even made little fart collectors that farmers can put on their cows.

Strange world.

"I would prefer doing something realistic."

I'm not sure that thing you posted a picture of is necessarily more realistic then my suggestion...but hey at least you are thinking in the terms of solution. I'm not the type of person that says an idea is foolish, if there is even a chance one of the options can work I say go for it, even if the solution requires a lot of effort to accomplish.

But I don't believe we are talking about the entire amount of ice caps melting. As this thread suggests, melting of ice caps would bring global cooling so that not all of the ice would melt, or at least not all at once.

One thing is for sure, Cap and Trade is a joke, a real solution to a problem we can't control should be found. What do we do to keep the water level from raising in the event that ice does melt.

i dont know where abouts you guys are from but in australia you really notice when weather is different summer is usually about 42 degrees celsius dunno what it is in farenheit...and winter usually sits somewhere between 17-28degrees but its been reversed over here winter is summer and usmmer is winter its weird this yr makes you wonder

reply to post by SkurkNilsen

t goes like this:

Global warming-----> Melt the icecaps------->Melted icecaps cool the ocean streams------->Colder Weather.

Although this explanation is somewhat on the right track, it's not quite accurate. Melting ice might indeed add some colder water to the equation locally, but this explanation overlooks what's causing that ice to melt in the first place. As the Earth warms, most of that heat is going into the oceans:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5528f0717e37.gif[/atsimg]

So overall the oceans are getting warmer, not colder.

However there does seem to be merit in the more general idea that warming in the Arctic (which has been far more extreme there than anywhere else on Earth) is what's causing abrupt cooling effects further south.

The simplest way to put it is - as air temperatures in the Arctic get warmer and warmer, they "push" colder air outward, raining typically Arctic conditions down on some of us below. This was covered in NOAA's most recent Arctic Report Card, released earlier this fall.

NOAA: Arctic changes are affecting climate elsewhere

"There is evidence that the effect of higher air temperatures in the lower Arctic atmosphere in fall is contributing to changes in the atmospheric circulation in both the Arctic and northern mid-latitudes," wrote the report's authors, a team of 69 international scientists.

Extreme cold and big snowfalls can be blamed on the Arctic changes, according to NOAA.

Meanwhile, there is also the issue of cold freshwater from ice melt changing the temperature gradient and especially the salinity of the oceans enough to start affecting things like the Gulf Stream.



More info:
Abrupt Climate Change: Should We Be Worried?


I thought I'd just add this in too because it's pretty hilarious considering how much people love to rip on Al Gore. Here he is in An Inconvenient Truth describing this EXACT thing happening (global warming leading to a local ice age in Europe):

reply to post by The_Phantom


First off, I agree that cap'n'trade is useless.

And as far as realistic solutions, we also need to think in terms of practicality. I dont know the solution and I didn't mean to be condescending (I know I come off that way sometimes, sorry), but what i said in my previous posts about the desert is true.

I think the biggest problem right now is that the discussion on what is causing the climate change is over shadowing the fact that we need to look at solutions for a problem we as humans have never faced.

Maybe a thread where we discuss possible solutions? (there might be one for all I know)

reply to post by mc_squared


Thank you for expanding on my somewhat over simplified explanation. I just wanted to show that global warming and local cooling is not mutualy exclusive.

S&F for you

Errr, obviously just a S

reply to post by SkurkNilsen

Maybe a thread where we discuss possible solutions? (there might be one for all I know)

Fighting Global Warming Without Carbon Taxes

Look at all the attention and replies that thread got. People around here LOVE whining and complaining about taxes and the global warming "scam". Discussing innovative and creative ways around it, not so much

Originally posted by woogleuk
The hot weather causes more meltage so more normal water hits salt water causing cooling is the right answer methinks.

What bugs me about global warming is that everytime a volcano erupts its puts more crap in the atmosphere than man ever has.

Heck, they say cows farting do more damage than man, they have even made little fart collectors that farmers can put on their cows.

Strange world.

Lm bovine ao Woogle ? I mean, for real? A bovine fart collecter? Is this? Never mind. I guess I believe it.
Strange world indeed my man. Walks away shak'in head.

reply to post by randyvs


Its true!!! Cows bums are gonna kill us all

Cow Farts: Global Warmers Or A Load Of Hot Air?

Cow Backpacks Trap Methane Gas

I can't find the original story or device, it kinda looked like a big nappy.

I'm sorry I had to. Well I'm sorry as far as sorry being an excuse short of an apology anyway.
Good one Woogle I never ever would 've imagined such a perposterous bovine aparatus.

Disclaimer No jersey's were hurt or any way abused during the insertion of..... well wait a minute that wouldn't be true at all would it? Still lmao. hilarious

reply to post by woogleuk