Colder or hotter? Both ! me thinkst., page 2

reply to post by MavRck

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I understand the simple explanation behind the colder winters.... but I have a few questions. I am an economics and philosophy student.... not a science student.

Wouldn't the summer months yield higher amounts of the cold water from the glaciers, and make the summers colder as well? In fact, wouldn't this trend of colder weather be greater during summer months than winter months because slight warming in a Greenland winter wouldn't make the ice less frozen while in the summer months, it would make a much more significant difference?

How much additional glacial runoff does it take to lower the temperture of the currents and the weather as a whole?

Disclaimer: I am not trying to debate you or bait you into saying something. My answer to the climate change question is "I am not a scientist." But I am curious. (I do however have ideas of what we need to do about it that do not depend on what the causes are... I am an ECON guy.... lol)

Originally posted by The_Phantom
reply to post by SkurkNilsen

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Let's just not do anything and die, that sounds fun. And we can survive an ice age. Also you exaggerate the amount of water displacement, by like an entire ocean.

[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com...[/img]

edit on 25-12-2010 by The_Phantom because: (no reason given)

I never said "do nothing", but I would prefer doing something realistic.

Pumping the entire amount of the ice caps (around the amount of the mediterranean sea) into a desert is not at all realistic.
So I'm sorry, sea, not ocean, OK?

First of it is salt water, if you don't want to go get the ice itself before it melts.
Second the desert is a desert for a reason, there are no plants to keep the water there, you would just make a river that would wash the desert even further, possibly destroying even more fertile land.

If you found some way to separate water and salt on that scale, then it would be a better idea to pump it into the rainforest, but it already has water enough (hence the name rainforest).

One thing that could work, speaking of salt, is to pump salt water into the skies in large quantities around the poles to shade them from the heating.



like so for example.

reply to post by DINSTAAR

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My theory slightly differs from the status quo (also supportive) ... It is thought that there are some sort of gases being released causing the heat etc, however my explanation is slightly more simple...

We're slightly closer to the sun...

The moon gets further away from us every year (about a fingernail)... Our rotation around the sun is varying (it goes up and down and likely closer/further as we are completely a near 5000 year long 'wobble' '

The ANGLE as well as PROXIMITY is melting to ice (as MARS CAPS ARE MELTING TOO WHICH IS FURTHER AWAY AND HAS ZERO POPULATION) which changes the currents and weather systems literally all over the world as the antarctic is displaced into the oceanic mass and snow/rain does the rest.

It would not be colder during 'summer'... it will be MUCH hotter... (I wish I knew how to explain this.... 'better')

reply to post by 4nsicphd

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Then they need to change the title. Global warming is inaccurate. Call it Global Climate Change...

reply to post by SkurkNilsen

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t goes like this:

Global warming-----> Melt the icecaps------->Melted icecaps cool the ocean streams------->Colder Weather.

Although this explanation is somewhat on the right track, it's not quite accurate. Melting ice might indeed add some colder water to the equation locally, but this explanation overlooks what's causing that ice to melt in the first place. As the Earth warms, most of that heat is going into the oceans:



So overall the oceans are getting warmer, not colder.

However there does seem to be merit in the more general idea that warming in the Arctic (which has been far more extreme there than anywhere else on Earth) is what's causing abrupt cooling effects further south.

The simplest way to put it is - as air temperatures in the Arctic get warmer and warmer, they "push" colder air outward, raining typically Arctic conditions down on some of us below. This was covered in NOAA's most recent Arctic Report Card, released earlier this fall.

NOAA: Arctic changes are affecting climate elsewhere

"There is evidence that the effect of higher air temperatures in the lower Arctic atmosphere in fall is contributing to changes in the atmospheric circulation in both the Arctic and northern mid-latitudes," wrote the report's authors, a team of 69 international scientists.

Extreme cold and big snowfalls can be blamed on the Arctic changes, according to NOAA.

Meanwhile, there is also the issue of cold freshwater from ice melt changing the temperature gradient and especially the salinity of the oceans enough to start affecting things like the Gulf Stream.



More info:
Abrupt Climate Change: Should We Be Worried?


I thought I'd just add this in too because it's pretty hilarious considering how much people love to rip on Al Gore. Here he is in An Inconvenient Truth describing this EXACT thing happening (global warming leading to a local ice age in Europe):

reply to post by The_Phantom

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First off, I agree that cap'n'trade is useless.

And as far as realistic solutions, we also need to think in terms of practicality. I dont know the solution and I didn't mean to be condescending (I know I come off that way sometimes, sorry), but what i said in my previous posts about the desert is true.

I think the biggest problem right now is that the discussion on what is causing the climate change is over shadowing the fact that we need to look at solutions for a problem we as humans have never faced.

Maybe a thread where we discuss possible solutions? (there might be one for all I know)

reply to post by mc_squared

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Thank you for expanding on my somewhat over simplified explanation. I just wanted to show that global warming and local cooling is not mutualy exclusive.

S&F for you

Errr, obviously just a S

reply to post by SkurkNilsen

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Maybe a thread where we discuss possible solutions? (there might be one for all I know)

Fighting Global Warming Without Carbon Taxes

Look at all the attention and replies that thread got. People around here LOVE whining and complaining about taxes and the global warming "scam". Discussing innovative and creative ways around it, not so much

reply to post by randyvs

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Its true!!! Cows bums are gonna kill us all

Cow Farts: Global Warmers Or A Load Of Hot Air?

Cow Backpacks Trap Methane Gas

I can't find the original story or device, it kinda looked like a big nappy.

I'm sorry I had to. Well I'm sorry as far as sorry being an excuse short of an apology anyway.
Good one Woogle I never ever would 've imagined such a perposterous bovine aparatus.

Disclaimer No jersey's were hurt or any way abused during the insertion of..... well wait a minute that wouldn't be true at all would it? Still lmao. hilarious

reply to post by woogleuk

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