Originally posted by debrisfield
Pflock was trying to make it sound like everything about Mogul, including the balloons, were somehow supersecret, therefore created an emergency
military situation. It's all more lying from the debunking crowd to try to make a case for Mogul.
Originally posted by The Shrike
Page 143, "ROSWELL:..." by Pflock:
"In the fall of 1990, Todd was sleuthing through a collection of Federal Bureau of Investigation documents having to do with UFOs, which had been
released as the result of Freedom of Information Act requests filed by well-known ufologist Bruce Maccabee. Reading an FBI document concerning
alleged "UFO crash debris" found by a Danforth, Illinois, farmer in August 1947, Todd noted something interesting. According to the report, when
FBI agents had asked a senior U.S. Army civilian employee to examine the material, they were told it might be something from an army project with the
code name Mogul. The FBI men were given no further details. Project Mogul was classified Top Secret, and they had no "need to know."
What’s ironic here is that Shrike seems to think this passage from Pflock supports that everything about Mogul was supersecret. But it really does
the opposite, if you know the details of what happened here. The relevant documents indicate that the reason the FBI was even asking about Project
Mogul was because the Army told them about it BY NAME
, even though AF counterintelligence debunkers in the present claimed the very name was
also allegedly top-top-secret. Note in all the following documents mentioning Mogul by name, the classification is always very low
(“confidential”) or not classified at all.
Let’s start with the FBI summary of what happened:
A farmer in Danforth, Illinois, found a “disc” in his field, that was turned over to the FBI for examination. (The FBI at the time was assisting
AF intelligence in investigating some of the disc cases.) The FBI contacted a Mrs. Whedon of the Army Engineers, who first informed them that the
object was used by "Operation Mogul" in tests by the AF classified "Top Secret".
Thus, totally contrary to what Pflock and Shrike are claiming, the FBI was immediately told the name of Mogul, in fact it was offered unsolicited as
the solution to the Danforth object, not hidden away as some supersecret project which was never even to be mentioned as existing.
What the FBI wasn’t told was the actual purpose (the only “Top Secret” part). If that weren’t the case, then why was the FBI told about Mogul
at all, including its code name? As has been stated many times before, nothing about Mogul was classified except for the spying purpose. This
included all the materials making up the balloons at the time of Roswell. What was classified about weather balloons or radar targets, all that
rancher Brazel allegedly found? Absolutely nothing. Nobody would ever freak out over it.
At this point, the FBI handed the Danforth object over to AF intelligence, who forwarded it to Wright Field, who immediately determined it was a
obvious hoax, had nothing to do with "Operation Mogul", and sent the report showing it was a hoax back to the FBI. Altogether, "Operation Mogul"
was mentioned FOUR TIMES in this totally UNCLASSIFIED FBI memo.
Wright Field also did a detailed analysis of the Danforth “disc”, going into great deal as to where some of the parts of this hoax object came
from. Here’s the lowly classified report (“confidential”) again cavalierly mentioning the unmentionable “’Mogul’ Project”.
Here are some other links to the same Wright Field report mentioning the name “Mogul” plus other related documents, again none of it
Thus the following Pflock spin about the supposed supersecrecy of Mogul is highly deceptive: "The FBI men were given no further details. Project
Mogul was classified Top Secret, and they had no 'need to know'". But the real story was that the FBI was outright told about Mogul, in fact Mogul
was initially being blurted out as a possible solution to the Danforth object, not being hidden from FBI eyes. Further Wright Field analyzed this
"disc“, wrote this all up, and sent the report back to the FBI stating the object had nothing to do with Mogul.
Here is yet another unclassified document from Mogul engineer Charle’s Moore’s own files (reviewed by Moore and handed over to researchers in
1969) again blurting out the supposedly “Project Mogul”:
See also Kevin Randle’s blog on this:
Yet Moore claimed not knowing the allegedly supersecret codename “Mogul” until being told in the 1990s. Remember, this document is unclassified
and, from Moore’s own files, and names him as the head engineer of the project. Further, Moore had to have known about this since at least 1969.
Thus this was just another lie from Moore, promulgated by Pflock in his book, to again make it seem that Mogul was far more secret than it actually
Another thing weird about all this was the Dallas FBI memo from July 8, 1947, concerning what was found at Roswell. It stated that the alleged
Roswell SINGLE balloon and attached radar target (not a multi-balloon Mogul) were being sent to Wright Field for yet further examination:
At the very end, the FBI agent stated that Gen. Ramey’s contact man (an intelligence officer named Maj. Kirton) “would request Wright Field to
advise Cincinatti [FBI] office results of examination.”
So surely if nothing but a balloon and radar target had been sent to Wright Field, the Cincinnati office would have been informed of this by Wright
Field, just like the detailed analysis the FBI got back the following month on the Danforth object. Right? Wrong! Nobody has been able to find
anything further in FBI files anywhere to indicate the FBI was told anything more. This included GAO investigators looking into this for N.M.
Congressman Steven Schiff in 1994. In fact, nobody can find any other government paperwork on Roswell that should exist, including Wright Field
receiving and examining the Roswell debris.
The Danforth object in no way supports that Mogul accounted for what happened at Roswell or that Mogul was so secret as to create an extreme
overreaction by the military. The paperwork instead documents that “Project Mogul” was being blurted out everywhere, not that secret at all. The
Dallas FBI memo also contradicts it, unless you believe an already nonexistent 28-balloon, 3-5 radar target Mogul could shrink down to exactly fit the
FBI teletypes single balloon and radar target shipped to Wright Field, the single balloon story that Ramey was also publicly putting out.
Originally posted by debrisfield
Of course, Pflock never really dealt with the embarrassing situation that there was never any unaccounted for Mogul that could have caused this to
begin with. Instead Air Force counterintelligence manufactured nonexistent Mogul flights in 1994 to try to blunt an inquiry into Roswell from N.M.
Congressman Steven Schiff.
Again no response from Shrike (or other debunkers) who continue to duck the point that there is ZERO documentary evidence that the alleged Roswell
Mogul balloon ever existed. Instead AF counterintelligence lied several nonexistent Mogul flights into existence to try to make the case that Mogul
Shrike also is ducking the other points I made that there was nothing secret about the balloons themselves, proven by the following FACTS:
* They publicly admitted to the flights from Alamogordo on July 9, 1947, the day after the Roswell press “flying disc” press release. This
included a demonstration of them sending up a small balloon flight of two weather balloons and two radar targets and using such balloon flights to
explain both Roswell and the other flying disc reports around the nation:
Alamogordo New, July 10, 1947, Headline story
FANTASY OF THE "FLYING DISC" IS EXPLAINED HERE
--News Men Watch Army Radar Crew Launch "Disc"
July 11, 1947, El Paso (TX) Times, Front Page
'FLYING DISCS' MAY BE AIR FIELD BALLOONS'
July 17, 1947, Roswell Daily Record
ALAMOGORDO AIR FIELD WEATHER BALLOONS MAY HAVE ADDED TO FLYING DISK HYSTERIA
* Mogul personnel soon after wrote a very public scientific paper published in J. Meteorology the following year going into great detail on Mogul
balloon configurations, equipment, tracking, and flight results, therefore obviously NONE of this material was classified. Again only the ultimate
spying purpose was withheld.
* There was no way to conceal the flights on launch, in the air, or once the balloons crashed, as Mogul people interviewed by the AF debunkers
themselves stated. In fact, they carried identification and reward tags in case they were found, encouraging people to report where they found them.
One such example was only 3 days after the nonexistent “Roswell” Mogul flight of June 4. Rancher Sid West contacted Alamogordo to report finding
the remains of Flight #6. Two guys in a jeep went out to pick it up. This again makes nonsense of Pflock’s propaganda that the military was
frantic because rancher Brazel found an alleged Mogul balloon