Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by Arbitrageur
While there is evidence of two crash sites (one on the Foster ranch, where Brazel worked, and another, more remote site), I don't believe Brazel's
site contained the bodies, going from the witness testimonies...just debris, and no, not the bulk of whatever was regarded as the "disc". However,
as Mac was detained by the military, it appears he may have been informed of the other crash site, bodies, and the overall situation on the first day
of detention and escort (he was escorted back to town after the story broke, to give new testimony), according to Frank Joyce, as Mac told him "they
weren't green", etc.
According to Carey & Schmitt from "Witness to Roswell", there is now witness testimony of a body or bodies out at the Foster Ranch site not far from
the debris field, maybe the "last straw" sending Brazel to Roswell to report the crash. One witness was Frank Joyce himself, who said Brazel was
talking about small, stinking, nonhuman bodies when he first came to Roswell, and was extremely upset about it. Joyce suggested he contact the
However, the witness testimony to bodies out at the Foster Ranch is currently rather thin. Marcel never mentioned it publicly, though a few witnesses
who knew him said he did briefly allude to bodies, such as saying they were pale and resembled Casper the Ghost, possibly meaning they also had big
heads and eyes, as described by others. Taking these statements at face value, whether Marcel personally saw the bodies or was briefed about them, I
don't know. Marcel did say in one interview there were things he knew about the case that he would never reveal publicly, "For the sake of my
country," possibly meaning he too felt they would be too disturbing to many people.
Also does anyone know what procedures and authorisation were required for the initial "we have recovered a disc" press release - did
Marcel have the position able to release without upwards referral or would he, in effect, be instructed or ordered to release something ?
The decision for the press release was done at the base level, not higher headquarters (at least from all the witness statements). Marcel was a senior
intelligence office and reported his findings, but the base commander called for the press release. According to all sources, Ramey was highly upset
by the story (which he would be, whether a UFO or Mogul)...and quickly enacted the weather balloon cover story.
According to Walter Haut, the Public Information Officer who put out the release, it was likely cleared from higher headquarters, namely the Pentagon.
Also any final version would have been reviewed and cleared by base commander Col. Blanchard. Neither Marcel nor Haut could put out a release like
this on their own. Nonetheless, Haut was generally the scapegoat back in 1947 by Associated Press. (The press never blamed Marcel.) United Press,
however, referred to it as Blanchard's press release.
I have never seen any witness referring to Ramey being upset. If Ramey was upset, I have no doubt he would have taken out his wrath in some way on
those responsible, people such as Blanchard, Marcel, and Haut. Never happened. Blanchard was eventually promoted right to the top of the AF; Marcel
received a promotion afterward and praise from Ramey a year later.
Rather, Haut said in an interview and affidavit that Ramey actually flew out the the base on the morning of July 8 to attend the staff meeting. At
the meeting, everyone was briefed about the two crash sites and Ramey said they were going to cover it up, though Haut said he didn't know how at the
time. Haut also indicated he thought Ramey was following orders from the Pentagon. The press release of the flying disc came out early that
afternoon, with Ramey, now back at Fort Worth, quickly changing it to weather balloon and debunking the incident. Haut's affidavit and interview:
According to Haut, many civilians in the Roswell area had already heard of the second crash site with the craft and bodies, so the press release was a
diversion, acknowledging the more distant and less-important Foster Ranch crash site and that something had been recovered, then quickly shifting the
focus away from Roswell to Fort Worth, where the "disc" was allegedly flown. Ramey took it from there. As Ramey's chief of staff Brig. Gen.
Thomas Dubose wrote in his affidavit, Ramey's weather balloon shown in the photos was nothing but a cover story to divert the attention of the
Marcel (other than the original press release) is the starting point for the revelation of the event. Stanton Friedman was advised to seek him out,
and it was his interview with him (in the 70's, I believe) that served as the catalyst for the other witnesses to come forward with their
Marcel was the first MAJOR witness, but there had been a few witnesses before. Most notably Lydia Sleppy was found by Stanton Friedman several years
before Marcel. Sleppy was an Albuquerque teletype operator, who said a Roswell reporter (Johnny McBoyle) had phoned in the story of going out to the
ranch and seeing a crushed object like a large dishpan that the military was hauling away. As Sleppy was putting out the story to their Los Angeles
ABC affiliate, the transmission was interrupted by someone identifying themselves as the FBI ordering them to cease transmission. McBoyle also seemed
to be interrupted on the phone line and told them to forget it. The only other thing they got out of him was he had heard about planes coming in from
Wright Field to fly it out.
One of the theories is similar to that, that Marcel saw balloon debris and there was a second crash site somewhere. While I'm sure
there WAS another crash site, I'm not sure it was in 1947 and there's no newspaper article in 1947 about a second crash site.
If we believe the witness testimonies, and location of the barricades seen by witnesses, the second site (not Brazel's) was recovered just a couple
days prior to Brazel reporting his find. This second site is where the reports of bodies come from, as well as the larger, more intact craft reports.
It was allegedly recovered on about the 5th or 6th (I'd have to check my research on the exact date). This was a remote site, and had less witnesses
come forward (notably a fireman and some folks who saw the military cordon in the area).
This is the old scenario of Randle/Schmitt, based on bogus testimony of Frank Kaufmann. According to Walter Haut in his second affidavit, the second
site closer to Roswell with a small craft and bodies was found by civilians July 7 while Marcel and Cavitt were investigating the Foster Ranch debris
field site. Recovery began the same day and was finished by the afternoon of July 8, when the crash object was hauled on a flat-bed truck covered
with a tarp through the center of Roswell on its way to the base. There were approximately half a dozen eyewitnesses found by Carey and Schmitt to
this. Another witness at the base, Sgt. Earl Fulford, said his friend was driving the truck, and saw him take it to base hangar. Walter Haut, soon
after, said Blanchard took him to the hangar where he personally saw the small egg-shaped craft (escape pod?) and several small bodies laid out on the
An interesting and little-known witness to the second crash site was 1st Lt. Chester Barton, who said he was sent to it by the Provost Marshal Edwin
Easley to check on the clean-up. It was heavily guarded by Easley's MPs, who wouldn't let him get too close because of radiation. He saw several
large burned areas and a few pieces of metallic debris still scattered around. He was also told bodies had been taken to the base hospital and later
heard they were flown to Texas. He assumed a B-29 had crashed (though saw no recognizable plane parts), perhaps with a nuke on board, and the bodies
referred to the flight crew. (However, there are no records of anything like this happening, which should be in the public record now.) He was aware
of the flying disc rumors and the story of the weather balloon, but knew it couldn't possibly have anything to do with a balloon.
The story is interesting because the witness was actually a skeptic to the idea of a flying saucer crash, but confirmed a second crash site with
bodies and heavy security, as did other witnesses. Also the interviewer Joseph Stefula, had been a big skeptic, but changed his mind after
interviewing Barton, concluding clearly something other than a balloon crash must have happened. More details can be found here: