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The Ramey Memo: Best Roswell Evidence Ever Found

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posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 03:35 PM
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A voice tells me that aliens are real, but they're so distant and out of the picture we won't have physical proof of them for centuries.

What we see is man made, but by a different type man. What we're seeing are vehicles being used by advanced people on this planet mostly. The true alien aircraft are so advanced they hardly register to us.

The Roswell crash had something to do with advanced civilizations on this planet. They work with our governments to a certain degree since being discovered. So it's alien in a sense, but not really.

I'm really questioning whether there is some type of manipulating technology in effect for this planet. Think of all the mysteries we have through out history. Not ONE has been verified, from the lochness monster, to bigfoot, to ufo's to ghosts, whatever.

What if there's some type of....frequency or other tech, that keeps us brainwashed and ignorant. What I mean is, say a saucer is discovered today and it's even announced. What if there's technology that basically makes the entire world forget and dismiss it? Kind of like that light on MIB, maybe the moon is used?

Again this is just some outside the box thinking I'm doing. Does anyone else feel as though something just isn't right? It's like...our knowledge and experiences are being surpressed, kind of hard to put a finger on. Probably nonesense, oh well...




posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 03:45 PM
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You're comparing last a declassified balloon crashing last June to an extremely classified balloon, used as part of the Cold War in 1947.

Of course the reaction would be much more militarised and secretive in 47.


No, I'm comparing lost Mogul balloons to lost Mogul balloons. Mogul 3 was lost also. Was there some big search organized for it? No. Did they care it was out somewhere in the desert? No, was nothing classified about the parts. So were earlier test balloons lost. Attaching the radar target was an attempt to keep from losing them (and was unsuccessful). Mogul 4 (the one claimed to have been lost, and responsible for Roswell), was configured exactly like Mogul 2 according to the project engineer. Of course, oddly, there don't seem to be many records even confirming there WAS a Mogul flight 4, as it wasn't in the flight logs for the project. (but I digress)

The parts of Mogul were not classified...only it's PURPOSE. That said, the military wasn't keen on folks seeing the Sonar Buoy along with the balloon, as then the purpose could be surmised, but still, it was all off-the-shelf parts, nothing that would require flying the debris to top foreign technology bases. It's a ridiculous reaction, if indeed it was Mogul, and this is a bit out of character for the military of the time. There must have been a valid REASON to send the material to Ft. Worth and Wright Field.

reply to post by DZAG Wright
 


Your theory should include WHY you think these advanced humans would keep such technology secretive for so long, and not profit by it, or use it to advance whatever agenda they wish to advance. I personally disagree with the theory, but just pointing out the need to explain this.
edit on 28-12-2010 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by debrisfield

My main comment here is that many of these readings would be invalidated by lack of proper letter counts. E.g., the words that follow the "disc" word at the start of the second paragraph are of lengths, 4, 4, 4, 3, not 6, 7, 2, 13.

My second comment is that for a reading to be considered possibly valid, it has to make sense. It should be grammatical and has to work with the words, phrases and sentences before and after it and in the context of the historical circumstances under which the message was written. Thus I wouldn't expect to see "UFO" in the memo since the term hadn't be invented yet and the same for "MJ-12", as some have done. Such anachronisms are good indications of bad readings.


It turns out I missed a line when I wrote up. There's the line that goes:

"~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ parts for further analysis" (or something similar)

However, you may be right that my letter counts for the following line are incorrect. I find it quite hard to tell how many letters each word has. That seems to be something other people express more certainty on.

I think I count 6, 7, 2, 7+, 5/6, which is fine for ".... appear covered up ~~~~~~~ negate", but I'm not so certain I am reading that correctly now.

I'm relatively convinced the first line says "and the ~~~~~~~ of the wreck you collected to the". Some words that might fit are: pictures, viewers, victims, vessels, remains, jetsams, persons, sensors. Some make sense in context, others don't.

I agree with your other comments entirely.

I would love to have the time to really analyse this message properly and come to a conclusion as to how much of it can actually be read with any confidence. I think a surprising amount.

However, to me there does not appear to be anything particularly striking on the paper. Admittedly, if it said "victims of the wreck" that would be mildly interesting. Unfortunately it is not at all clear to me that this is what it says.

Even if it could be read, it's not going to be held out for a newspaper camera to photograph if it is top secret. My best guess is it is a memo that says something along the lines that the parts should be collected and sent off for analysis and that if anyone from the media or public asks about it that it should be referred to as a weather balloon and that its best not to contradict what has been said.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by annella

Originally posted by The Shrike
I learned about Roswell in 1957 while stationed at Sidi Slimane AFB, Morocco.

I touched the Roswell debris.


So you say you touched some ' debris'.

Would you agree that if you touched anything, it was what the Military WANTED you to touch? ( or at least had no problem with?)
And would you also agree that you have no way of proving it WAS the actual pieces collected from the Ranch?


Logical questions. I don't agree with your kind of thinking when you ask: "...it was what the Military WANTED you to touch?" What I touched was "rotting" away in an archive that no one visits so why would the "Military" bother to store useless material? If it was useless when first stored it will be always useless. I didn't follow the chain of command of the debris, but it is housed with all of the other documents which you may get to see if you can provide rhyme and reason for being allowed to do so. I don't think that the "Military" is involved with what's stored since Popular Mechanics was allowed to access, handle, and photograph it.

No, I can not prove that what I saw and handled were the actual pieces collected from the Ranch although one way could be to test the dirt and dust that is still found on some of the aluminum foil, "beams", etc., and see if it matches dirt from the Foster Ranch.

But while I have no faith, I do take it on faith that what is stored, what I handled, is what was collected in 1947 from the Foster Ranch. You can say I'm gullible also.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by debrisfield
(snip)


Your expertise at killing the messenger is to be admired. I simply copied and pasted and added a few comments but as John Lennon sang "The way things are going. They're gonna crucify me." Don't crucify me, Roswell isn't worth dying for!


You'll note that Shrike avoids discussing any of the points I raised, such as how can a nonexistent Mogul balloon explain anything? Where is the documentation guy? It ain't in official Mogul records. Maybe the documentation of its existence disappeared with the same magic that reduced an entire Mogul down to Ramey's one balloon/one radar target, made the Mogul equipment disappear, the hundreds of yards of rigging disappear, etc., etc.


For your information, I'd rather side with a serious research like Karl T. Pflock than side with you as you don't have his credentials and your comments reflect no credentials whatsoever.


His credentials like former CIA employee and documented hoaxer? The one Roswell counterintelligence agent Sheridan Cavitt referred to as "our debunker?"


I learned about Roswell in 1957 while stationed at Sidi Slimane AFB, Morocco.


Yes, I'm sure Shrike learned the big truth about Roswell while in Morocco in 1957, of all places. Perhaps after a few drinks at Rick's Place? Maybe that's where the rest of the nonexistent Mogul #4 disappeared to?


I went to the National Archives and Records Administration complex in College Park, Maryland, in 2003 accompanying my brother-in-law who was the photographer of the photos appeaging in Popular Mechanics, June 2003.

The cover article was "Roswell Declassified".
books.google.com... 9jrECeZrsKpJIhG8VLVCo&hl=en&ei=AXgZTfnsN4Wclgfl2-mcDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=popular%20mechanics%20roswell %20declassified%20june%202003&f=false


Here's the story with this ludicrous Popular Mechanics article. PM's "science" writer Jim Wilson hyped some boxes of junk, most of it only loosely concerning the Roswell incident, that the Air Force counterintelligence people collected in 1994 during their sweep for material, and then shipped off to the National Archives when they were done writing their disinformation report.

To make it sound like a big expose of Roswell, no doubt to sell magazines, Wilson claimed much of this was "secret", just-declassified material on Roswell that the Air Force had been collecting since July 1947 and that Wilson was the first to see it.

This was all one big lie. Nothing about any of this material was classified when the AF collected it in 1994 and most was totally irrelevant to the Roswell case. Further, these boxes were already well-known to Roswell researchers for years. For a critique of Wilson's bunk PM article by Roswell researcher Robert Durant, who labels it a hoax, see:

roswellproof.com...

But perhaps the stupidest thing Wilson wrote, was that in the boxes, the Air Force had also thrown a radar reflector (picture in Shrike's linked-to article), which Wilson described thusly:



"We even found the remains of the infamous balloon reflector, which UFO buffs claim the government planted a the crash site in place of the pieces of flying disc."


First of all, Wilson lied that "UFO buffs" claimed the government planted a radar reflector at the crash site. NOBODY has ever said this. What the "UFO buffs" actually argue is that a radar reflector was planted at Ramey's Eighth Army AF HQ in Fort Worth for a photo session to debunk the Roswell flying disc story. I guess this makes Ramey's chief of staff Brig. Gen. Thomas Dubose one of those crazy "UFO buffs", because he said that is exactly what happened.


"The material shown in the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon. The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press." [affidavit]


But, according to Wilson, this wasn't just any radar reflector in those "SECRET" boxes, but the actual Roswell radar reflector. Yes, more balloon magic at work here. The torn-up radar reflector in Ramey's office has reassembled itself into a pristine radar reflector in the National Archives' box.

Wilson has about as much "critical thinking" skills and integrity as our friend Shrike does. Now see how Shrike echos the absurd claims of Wilson:


I touched the Roswell debris.


ROTFLMFAO!!! So now Shrike is claiming he touched the one, the true "Roswell debris". If he really believes that, then he hands down wins the gullible and foolish debunker-of-the-year award.

But of course, what the AF threw in the box was some radar target they found somewhere still in totally pristine condition, one of tens of thousands of such reflector kites made back then for the military and civilian weather services.


What are you bringing to the table? Inane comments?


"Inane comments?" Shrike should look in the mirror. I'm not the one claiming to have touched the original Roswell debris.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by roughycannon
A few years ago i spent about 2 days with a high res copy of the letter and got completely different words from what was in that doc I'll try and find the file if I can and post it later


Well I couldnt find the one I did a few years ago so I spent the last 3 nights doing another one...

Photobucket image

The bottom "composite" one has the best detail. If you zoom out from the image making it smaller makes things a bit sharper.

edit on 28-12-2010 by roughycannon because: url didnt work



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok

I touched the Roswell debris.


I remember seeing the special on this, where they showed it on television, and the debris looked pretty pristine to me (especially for being in the desert for a bit, if actually Mogul 4). If you got to examine the debris CLAIMED as being recovered there, did it seem like it was weathered enough to you?


The Shrike: "The wood frame of the kite part, what was left of it, looked aged as old wood would even if not exposed to the elements for a long time (think painting frames that have been inside homes and allowed to deteriorate normally) and the wire holding the aluminum foil/mylar-type didn't have the sheen of new wire."


Did you see the balsa wood frame and any example of the flowery toy company tape Moore claimed was used, and mistaken for I-beams?


The Shrike: "No I didn't see the flowery stuff because not everything was brought out to be photographed just a few "token" objects. The files was where the interest lay to see if anything out of the ordinary was reported and nothing with such info was found. Just regular military memo forms."


Did the foil paper have any kind of property that you feel could have been mistaken for a memory-metal type effect?


I didn't touch the foil that was attached to the frame but there were a couple of loose, crumpled pieces which made the sound one hears when one "balls" a piece of aluminum foil."


How did you get the permission and opportunity to see/touch the material?


The Shrike: "There was not much discussion about what was going to be allowed so we dealt with it as it developed. I was along for the ride as my brother-in-law had a photographic assistant. In the past I used to assist my brother-in-law in photo shoots when he was active in NYC but he mentioned it to me as a last minute thing and I joined him. Perhaps POP. MECH.'s author had the magazine staff make the preparations and POP. MECH. had enough "muscle" to have the request honored."


Many thanks in advance if you're able to answer. I've always known you as a straight-shooter on this board, so certainly giving you the benefit of the doubt.
(so I'm just really curious...thanks).


The Shrike: "Thanks for the vote of confidence. Sometimes my aim is not as straight as I'd like but I do hit the bullseye enough times!"


The official report says if it happened it was a better security system than the one used to protect the atomic secrets. That begs the question, why wouldn't the US use the best security system they had to protect atomic secrets? So it seems to me like Weaver and the official USAF report are asking pretty much the same question.


The answer is simple. SCI. Secret, Compartmentalized, Information. Only a few know all of the pieces of the puzzle, while anyone else on the project only knows their piece. Unlike the atomic bomb program, THIS project would have been: 1) less people, 2) less involved with other branches and agencies, 3) at a more remote location, and most of all 4) easier to dismiss and ridicule. Soviet penetration of our intelligence network was pretty much already a reality as of the time of Roswell, so saying the recovery of a UFO would be "more secret" than the atomic bomb project (which was likely already infiltrated by 1947 or soon thereafter, as the Soviets had their own by '53) isn't that much of a stretch...especially after centralizing intelligence with the National Security Act later that year.
edit on 28-12-2010 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by XtraTL



It turns out I missed a line when I wrote up. There's the line that goes:

"~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ parts for further analysis" (or something similar)


Before proceeding further, see the graphic at the following website which lines up the columns of text for objective letter counting:

www.roswellproof.com...

The correct letter counts for the words above are 4, 3, 6, 7/8, whereas you have 5, 3, 7, 8.

Therefore "parts" and "further" cannot be right unless you assume they are misspelled, not a good assumption in general when word lengths don't fit.

I agree with "for" and that the last word begins with "A". "Analysis" is an interesting possibility I'll have to mull over. I also believe the third word above starts with "A". A few people have read it as "ATOMIC", therefore "ATOMIC ANALYSIS" if correct.


However, you may be right that my letter counts for the following line are incorrect. I find it quite hard to tell how many letters each word has. That seems to be something other people express more certainty on.

I think I count 6, 7, 2, 7+, 5/6, which is fine for ".... appear covered up ~~~~~~~ negate", but I'm not so certain I am reading that correctly now.


Not sure which line you are referring to here, but guessing the next one at the end, which would be 6, 7, 2, 7 (+ punctuation mark) , 5/6. The consensus reads here for the 3rd and 4th words are "AT ROSWELL (period or comma)".


I'm relatively convinced the first line says "and the ~~~~~~~ of the wreck you collected to the". Some words that might fit are: pictures, viewers, victims, vessels, remains, jetsams, persons, sensors. Some make sense in context, others don't.


Here's a good look at the word and phrase in question, which includes teletype font for comparison and centration marks:

www.roswellproof.com...
www.roswellproof.com...

"Pictures" is automatically out (too long). Of the remainder, the ones that come closest to fitting the clear letters are "viewers" and "victims" (the first letter is definitely either a teletype "V" or "Y"), and I am also quite sure the fifth letter is "I" and the sixth "M" or "N", therefore "viewers" is out.

As you say, most of these words also don't make any sense. The only other English word I have been able to find that might make sense given the lettering is "VIEWING", but I seriously doubt the last letter is "G". It looks like an "S" and I strongly lean to "M" for the letter before it instead of "N". Also "the viewing of the wreck you connected to the" does not make sense.

The strong consensus read for your "connected" is instead "forwarded". The only person who disagrees has "and convey on", which I seriously doubt, but does have your "CON" at the beginning. Both "connected" and "forwarded" have the correct number of letters, so it is partly a matter of which is most sensible given the other words in the phrase. For a detailed comparison of various people's reads of the Ramey memo:

www.roswellproof.com...


I would love to have the time to really analyse this message properly and come to a conclusion as to how much of it can actually be read with any confidence. I think a surprising amount.


I agree. Even though there are a number of different readings, there is already a surprising amount of consensus on the words and letters, according to statistics compiled on the above link. About 40% of the words/letters have strong or unanimous agreement (i.e., at least 6 of 9 readers agree), while about 50% have at least majority (5 of 9) to unanimous agreement. After that, things break down.

There is currently strong consensus on the critical phrases "victims of the wreck" (6 of 9 readers) and "in/on the 'disc/k'" (7 of 9).


However, to me there does not appear to be anything particularly striking on the paper. Admittedly, if it said "victims of the wreck" that would be mildly interesting. Unfortunately it is not at all clear to me that this is what it says.


"victims of the wreck" blows all the conventional explanations out of the water, certainly the simple balloon ones. There is no evidence of any manned balloon projects at this time, so where would the "victims" or bodies associated with the crash come from? It doesn't specify what the bodies are (e.g., such as something like "alien" or "space man" might), but given the now massive amount of testimony (now numbering several dozen first and second-hand witnesses) to small alien bodies being recovered, I'm willing to bet the Ramey memo's "victims" weren't human.


Even if it could be read, it's not going to be held out for a newspaper camera to photograph if it is top secret. My best guess is it is a memo that says something along the lines that the parts should be collected and sent off for analysis and that if anyone from the media or public asks about it that it should be referred to as a weather balloon and that its best not to contradict what has been said.


Ramey and the Pentagon admitted at the time right after the Roswell press release that the matter was highly classified, and only when Ramey announced it was nothing but a weather balloon was the matter allegedly no longer classified. Whoever wrote the memo obviously wrote it before Ramey officially declared it a balloon, therefore it necessarily would be classified at the time, whatever it says.

There are other historical instances where high secrets were blurted out, or highly classified documents accidentally photographed. A very recent example occurred in 2009 when the UK head of anti-terrorism slipped up and allowed a SECRET document planning for a raid on a terrorist cell to be photographed. See:

www.guardian.co.uk...



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 09:03 PM
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i find this hard to actually how they come up with some of these words, do they have actuall word reconision software and also can we get it to test for areselves as this could be fantasti if true



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by Monts
 


Of course everyone knows that Roswell was a cover-up. Aliens have been contacting Earth for centuries before the Roswell incident. Who do you think built the pyramids? Look at all the other lies our governments have told us. Why would they start telling the truth now?



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Monts
It is "disc" in the memo... I guess the youtube member doesn't know how to spell "disc" the right way. I'll post a few pics of the memo to clear things up.
Here's one they claim is the c version of disc, but I'm not sure it's all that legible:



But assuming it says disc, you all know that's not referring to a flying saucer but the balloon wreckage, right? Note they even put it in quotation marks showing that's what everyone was calling it but they knew that's not what it really was.

From "The Roswell Report", (1995) page 22, the FBI memo is mentioned that describes the "disc" resembles a weather balloon:


the telegram from
the Dallas FBI office of July 8,1947. This document quoted in part states: “. . The disc is hexagonal in shape and was suspended from a balloon by a cable, which balloon was approximately twenty feet in diameter... the object found resembles a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector... disc and balloon being transported...”
So it's interesting to see the way they say it resembles a balloon with a radar reflector, yet still calling it a disc "suspended from a balloon".

edit on 25-12-2010 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



So we now have "VICTIMS" of a weather balloon "DISC"...I'm sorry but I think someone in the Air Force at that time such a Jesse Marcel would recognize a WEATHER BALLOON...even if it was this "Mogul" ...any idiot could recognize foil and wood...that had to be some pretty tough foil though, I mean it couldn't be cut, scratched, burned or anything, and according to just about every person who saw it, it unfolded itself back to its shape...damn...some foil THAT is!!



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by The Shrike

I learned about Roswell in 1957 while stationed at Sidi Slimane AFB, Morocco.

I touched the Roswell debris.



What I touched was "rotting" away in an archive that no one visits so why would the "Military" bother to store useless material?


If Shrike knew anything about this, he would know that it was indeed mostly useless material that the Air Force counterintelligence team scooped up during their 1994 Roswell "investigation". The radar target Shrike touched was part of the gathering of material, not what was found at Roswell. If it had come from Roswell, you bet they would have mentioned it in their report as some sort of proof of what was found. Why didn't they Shrike, if it came from Roswell? Tell us, Mr. "critical thinker".

The reason they didn't say it was from Roswell, was because it wasn't. This was all explained in the USAF 1994 Roswell Report Executive Summary, p. 29, by head debunker Col Weaver:

"An actual device was also obtained for study with the assistance of Professor [Charles] Moore. (The example actually procured was a 1953-manufactured model "C" as compared to the Model B which was in use in 1947."


So what we have here is another debunker time travel explanation for Roswell. A radar target from 1953 went back in time to 1947 to crash at the Foster Ranch, so that Shrike can later believe that he touched the real Roswell debris. I couldn't make up comic material this rich.

Another clue, if you read the Roswell Report, is in the interview with Moore himself (p. 2), where he mentions the 1953 model had support "vanes" on top, just as pictured in the National Archives photo in Popular Mechanics, whereas the 1947 models did not.

Even if Shrike didn't bother to read the Roswell Report, he should have been able to figure out this had nothing to do with Roswell using his self-vaunted "critical thinking" just by comparing the condition of the radar target photographed in Ramey's office, which was torn to pieces, to the one in the National Archives, collected by the Air Force in 1994, which is in obviously pristine condition.


If it was useless when first stored it will be always useless. I didn't follow the chain of command of the debris, but it is housed with all of the other documents which you may get to see if you can provide rhyme and reason for being allowed to do so. I don't think that the "Military" is involved with what's stored since Popular Mechanics was allowed to access, handle, and photograph it.


None of this stuff was ever classified. Anybody can see it if they arrange with the National Archives, and some did prior to the 2003 Popular Mechanics article. PM author Jim Wilson totally hyped the alleged "secretiveness" of it and lied or didn't know any better when he claimed PM was the first to ever view it. Again, see researcher Robert Durant's expose of PM's "Secret Roswell files" hoax:

roswellproof.com...


No, I can not prove that what I saw and handled were the actual pieces collected from the Ranch although one way could be to test the dirt and dust that is still found on some of the aluminum foil, "beams", etc., and see if it matches dirt from the Foster Ranch.


More foolishness. A much simpler way for real "critical thinkers" than testing the nonexistent dirt on the pristine radar target, would be to read the USAF Roswell report, where they state it is a sample target dating from 1953, therefore nothing to do with what was recovered at Roswell.


But while I have no faith, I do take it on faith that what is stored, what I handled, is what was collected in 1947 from the Foster Ranch.


Shrike just makes himself appear more foolish with every ignorant thing he says.


You can say I'm gullible also.


OK, Shrike, you're gullible. Arrogant, ignorant, and biased too, a lethal combination, exactly what a REAL "critical thinker" is not.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 11:53 PM
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PROFILE:

General Hoyt S. Vandenberg

Vice Chief of Staff, U.S.A.F., Director of Central Intelligence



Place of birth: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Place of death: Walter Reed Medical Center, Washington D.C.
Allegiance: United States of America
Service/branch: United States Air Force
United States Army
Years of service: 1923 - 1953
Rank: General
Commands held: 12th Air Force
9th Air Force
Battles/wars: World War II
Awards Distinguished: Service Medal (2)
Silver Star
Legion of Merit
Distinguished Flying Cross
Bronze Star
Air Medal (5)

PHOTOS:


Taken 2 April 1948 by James Evans, Air Force photographer. General Spaatz turning over the Air Force responsibilities to General Hoyt Vandenberg (right), with Secretary of the Air Force Symington looking on approvingly. Vandenberg was the one who is reported to have "killed" the extraterrestrial explanation for flying saucers.


Secretary of Defense James Forrestal's last meeting, 25 March 1949. Among those present were: Under Secretary of Navy, W. J. Kenney; Secretary of AF, W. Stuart Symington; Secretary of Army, Kenneth C. Royall; Mr. James Forrestal; General Omar Bradley; Admiral Louis Denfield and General Hoyt S. Vandenberg. Shortly after this photograph Forrestal resigned, and two months later he was murdered..


General Nathan F. Twining, left, is congratulated by Hon. Harold E. Talbott (right), Secretary of the Air Force, after being sworn as Air Force Chief of Staff. Looking on are, left to right: General Thomas D. White, Vice Chief of Staff, U. S. Air Force; Colonel K. E. Thiebaud, Air Adjutant General and General Hoyt S. Vandenberg, retiring Chief of Staff. General Twining was sworn in during ceremonies at the Pentagon following the retiring ceremonies for General Vandenberg at Bolling Air Force Base, Washington, DC, 1 July 1953. It is interesting that the reins of leadership were passed to a General who was apparently involved in the UFO crash recoveries.

MJ-12 (MAJESTIC 12) DOCUMENTS MENTIONS:


…The President was given a limited briefing at the Pentagon by AC/S AAF General Hoyt Vandenberg on 10 July. FBI interest was curtailed and access to stored craft at Los Alamos was denied upon request of Deputy COSLt. General Collins. Inquiries to bases involved was restricted by General Vandenberg during the duration of recovery efforts. All teletype, telephone and radio transmissions were monitored for any disclosures of the finds. To maintain secrecy of site LZ-2 , the CO of Roswell AAF was authorised to give abrief press release to local paper in which 8th AF Hdqrs. promptly denied rumors that the Army had flying saucers in their possession which…

www.majesticdocuments.com...

There´s also a memo from Vandenberg to Chief Of Staff send on December 17, 1947:
This memo from Vandenberg to the Army Chief of Staff does not clearly relate to UFOs. However, it is clear that the decision process at White Sands and Alamogordo was in turmoil and that clarification was needed. Possibly as a result of the UFO wreckage being stored there and different access requests and priorities. The addition of a senior Army Ordnance Officer being permanently assigned to work with the joint committee for range coordination was the resolution to improve local decision making. What could be so important that would involve top generals to clarify decision making? The leaked version (page 1), is nearly identical to a document we found at the National Archives, RG 341, Entry 174, Box 141 (page 2), showing the same language in Paragraph 1 but an additional clarifying paragraph has been added which states: "This agreement concerns only decisions on joint range problems and does not extend into command and administration matters at Alamogordo Air Base." It is possible that either Vandenberg or the Army Chief of Staff upon seeing or reviewing the first memo might say "we need to clarify this so that no one misconstrues our intent and screws up the basic functions of Alamogordo Air Base."
www.majesticdocuments.com...

A little light over Vandenberg.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by M0bstar
 


Well Im a graphic designer and I consider the version of the memo I produced is clearer than anything on that roswell proof site, the word "victims" and "disc" are nothing near whats written on the memo the V in victims is a Y and the D in disc is an R...

My ramey memo processed

The bottom one is the final composite and you can clearly see some of the words mentioned are wrong.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:09 AM
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I highlighted the VICTIMS and DISC part here also some other things I can see...

highlighted memo

I'm sorry but that guy that's been working on this for years is wrong the words he gets are nothing like what you see in the one I done there are too many letters in the word victim and he seems to have missed upper and lower case letters too, also the word disc in quotes the first quote could be one but the second one isnt.

Also the bit thats looks like WA ROY is the part he says "WRECK" no way!
edit on 29-12-2010 by roughycannon because: missed a bit

edit on 29-12-2010 by roughycannon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:30 AM
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Seriously just look at the difference between his and mine:

My memo

Now that some other words are clearer its like he has just made the words up they dont even have the same letter count on most of them

His memo scroll right to the bottom



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 02:40 AM
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Originally posted by roughycannon
I highlighted the VICTIMS and DISC part here also some other things I can see...

highlighted memo


I think you can make a few more assumptions about words that are only two or three letters, like "for," "and," "the," "at," and so on. But you're essentially correct. A lot of stuff, including the key words such as "victims," "wreck," "disc," just aren't there if you go strictly by what the graphics indicate, without mixing in lower case with upper, and assuming no misspellings, telegraphic abbreviations, acronyms, numbers, etc.

Sixty years from now, how many people will be able to decipher:

DOOD Y R U SCH A LUSR ROTFL >8^P?
edit on 29-12-2010 by Blue Shift because: Clarity



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 06:47 AM
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I tried one technique, to highlight the very ink on paper!

It would have given more precise results if I had a bit larger image, like the original image.

We are onto something real HUGE!

An old saying comes to my mind, seeing this.
"Your digging your own grave"
The very thing they wanted to hide will be their most grave mistake ever.

Thanks a lot Mont!!!

Can anybody link me towards the original Images please?
I am sure I can do something with the Originals!
I really want to help, I don't know how I can try to make my Photoshop skills of use for you.
edit on 29-12-2010 by B1993 because: simplifying and asking for the images



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


Yes. Use Occams razor the simplest explanation is the most correct one. I wish people would use critical thinking skills instead of blind belief in the bizarre



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok

Your theory should include WHY you think these advanced humans would keep such technology secretive for so long, and not profit by it, or use it to advance whatever agenda they wish to advance. I personally disagree with the theory, but just pointing out the need to explain this.
edit on 28-12-2010 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)



A why would be simple actually. WE aren't part of their civilization. Lets say we survive the next million years on Earth and by that time chimps have evolved into creatures that are humanoidal and intelligent. With our advanced knowledge and tech we live underground or a different dimension but on the same planet. How do you believe we would handle the chimps?

What made me think of this theory is I witnessed a bigfoot while stationed in Alaska, so I KNOW they're real. I reported it to the Alaskan Fish and Wildlife and surprise, surprise, they didn't laugh at me, they asked for the location so they could go search for evidence. The guy told me that they've known about the bigfoot for a while, that they're peaceful and are called "Wildman".

Now having seen a bigfoot no further than 20 feet away, I can tell you that it isn't a animal, but some type of person. I wouldn't be surprised if the things can speak English. Going on a bit of a diversion; imagine the things these BF can tell us about our own history! What if it's things that we REALLY don't want to hear?




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