Fractional Reserve Banking

reply to post by ldyserenity

[quote
FOOTBALL BEER AND REALITY TV SUCKS...Yes I am American, but give me my Mcdonald's, Pepsi, and Law and Order; that doesn't fall under reality tv, does it? What is that oh crime drama, lolTake those away and yeah if it's the right time of month, everybody better step off!!!!

LMAO Isn't there a song that goes, "It's the right time of the month", Ronstadt I think, I wouldn't just be stepp'in Mam. With all respect I don't mess. I like you do not have credit cards never have never will. Credit is just something they can hang over your head. Pretty soon the companies will just start billing people who have good credit and then if they don't pay. Sorry. There goes you're credit. The only use I have for a bank is to rob one. Sorry about your law and order but they rob us daily. Robin hood / Jesse James forever.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Originally posted by Dance4Life
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Well I guess I take into account reality.

Not much use taking into account hypotheticals in a real world conversation. You can put any slant you want on it, but it is certainly our reality.

Disingenuous or insidious, it matters not, when it is stated that monetarists rely on empirical data to support their view, and you attempt to refute that view by calling it "hypothetical", either you are grossly ignorant of what empirical means, or you have something else going on. Good luck with that "reality" of yours.

What are you talking about?

Instead of writing a 1000 word essay and thumbing through your online thesaurus why don't you just make a nice easy to read outline on the steps you would take to end fractional reserve banking. Then you must also outline how we would overcome what I have listed above in reference to financing corporate expeditions, single family home purchases etc. Don't forget to include the consequences in all credit markets such as our Bond auctions.

If you link me to another website I will just skip over the post entirely.

reply to post by Dance4Life


Would it be ok to enquire upon your occupation Sweetheart? As it is so evident you know the ins and outs of all this very well. Out of curiousity and respectfully.

Truth of the matter not only does this apply to banks and finances it applies to humans as well. They dress it up in prideful words and descriptive phrases.. "Independence" "standing on your own 2 feet" "making your own way" "freedom" when in actuality it is slavery.

Society as a whole and you as an individual have been FRACTIONALIZED for a very long time. Most of society even enjoys it. Dont get me wrong...i suffer from the disease as well..being fractionalized so I am no special oracle that is not affected.

Ever notice in social situations usually the first thing out of someones mouth is this question... "So..what do you do" or "what do you do for a living" The value judgement of the person and his or her character can then be made right off the bat. worthy, unworthy, interesting, not interesting. Realizing how shallow this social interaction is I have begun to say "I do nothing" hopefully it kills it right there and usually does. Is it lonely? sometimes but not so much anymore.

None are more helplessly enslaved than those that believe they are free

Easy to read outline on ending Fractional Reserve Banking?



Wow. This is a very intelligent thread I find myself reading, but to ask for an easy outline on how to basically fix our ENTIRE economy is a bit much.

I'll give it a shot though...

Wipe out everyone's debt

Redistribute wealth and jobs to equalize class

Make money which doesn't rely on interest to feed those who control the amount of bills printed

This will never happen though, because nobody is as generous as they think they are.

reply to post by prepared4truth


Thank you for your additional intelligence in contribution Prep. You compliment yourself as well. I agree in earnest.

Super

Ever notice in social situations usually the first thing out of someones mouth is this question... "So..what do you do" or "what do you do for a living" The value judgement of the person and his or her character can then be made right off the bat. worthy, unworthy, interesting, not interesting. Realizing how shallow this social interaction is I have begun to say "I do nothing" hopefully it kills it right there and usually does. Is it lonely? sometimes but not so much anymore.

Yes I have at the very least noticed these things in every social circle I have come across. I never gave it the premeditation you have described. I must say, superb gallant..

reply to post by prepared4truth

This is a very intelligent thread I find myself reading, but to ask for an easy outline on how to basically fix our ENTIRE economy is a bit much....

It was debated in the UK Parliament just recently. CLICK

"What is needed to prevent any further credit expansion is to place the banking business under the general rules of commercial and civil laws compelling every individual to fulfill all obligations in full compliance with the terms of the contract"

What this means is bankers will have to obey the SAME laws as everyone else. No favored citizen status!

"The Return to Sound Money,"

No government agency or committee can design and operate a monetary system that would avoid the problems associated with wealth redistribution from those who gain access to new money late in the process to those who gained access early.

The first step must be a radical and unconditional abandonment of any further inflation. The total amount of dollar bills, whatever their name or legal characteristic may be, must not be increased by further issuance. No bank must be permitted to expand the total amount of its deposits subject to check or the balance of such deposits of any individual customer, be he a private citizen or the U.S. Treasury, otherwise than by receiving cash deposits in legal-tender banknotes from the public or by receiving a check payable by another domestic bank subject to the same limitations. This means a rigid 100 percent reserve for all future deposits; that is, all deposits not already in existence on the first day of the reform (p. 448).

In Human Action, Mises said that the government's task is to enforce contracts. Among these contracts are contracts for redeeming money-certificates for money metals on demand. He defined a money-certificate a receipt for a money metal that has 100% of the promised metal in reserve. He said that banks should not be favored by the government. They should not be allowed the right to break contracts, which is what a refusal to redeem money-certificates on demand is. "What is needed to prevent any further credit expansion is to place the banking business under the general rules of commercial and civil laws compelling every individual to fulfill all obligations in full compliance with the terms of the contract"

In fact, the attempt by modern governments to regulate in any way an international gold standard is always a political ruse to undermine its anti-inflationary bias. "The international gold standard works without any action on the part of governments. It is effective real cooperation of all members of the world-embracing market community. . . . What governments call international monetary cooperation is concerted action for the sake of credit expansion"

"Now, the gold standard is not a game, but a social institution. Its working does not depend on the preparedness of any people to observe arbitrary rules. It is controlled by the operation of inexorable economic law" (p. 462).
Mises on Money: www.lewrockwell.com...

reply to post by crimvelvet

What this means is bankers will have to obey the SAME laws as everyone else. No favored citizen status!

I can totally see this as a great beginnig to things in the right direction, IF, it weren't to little to late. Wouldn't you agree? Out of desperation this finally comes. Or is it to paint that pretty picture so we don't go ape # on there ass? Or raped ape so to speak?
Why can they always come up with the obvious fix way to late? That just angers me even more!
I have to drop out of the convo for awhile. Christmas eve and all. I you members will keep this puppy going as I am learni0ng here bigtime. Merry Merry to all the members of this fantastic place on the web. I'll be back later

reply to post by randyvs


Because economists have ALWAYS known the obvious fix. However, convolution is much easier to profit from.

The fact that everyone should be treated equally has been preached for centuries, but we haven't given it much attention besides saying, "Oh, Martin Luther King Jr. was a great man!" or "Ghandi set an example we should all follow."

DISTRACTIONS! Nothing but distractions from the message these people preach. Hopefully, the UK goes through with this and it becomes news over here in the States, because I am SICK and tired of how ignorant we are.

reply to post by randyvs

Why can they always come up with the obvious fix way to late? That just angers me even more!

Mises is not even an American. His book, Human Action: a Treatise on Economics was first published in German in 1940 and then published in English in 1949. A pocket book edition just came out.

For those of us who are lazy and do not want to deal with the German sentence structure and "Scholarize"
Try Mises on Money: www.lewrockwell.com...

reply to post by prepared4truth

God knows I am so with you Prep.

Originally posted by prepared4truth
Easy to read outline on ending Fractional Reserve Banking?

Wow. This is a very intelligent thread I find myself reading, but to ask for an easy outline on how to basically fix our ENTIRE economy is a bit much.

I'll give it a shot though...

Wipe out everyone's debt

Redistribute wealth and jobs to equalize class

Make money which doesn't rely on interest to feed those who control the amount of bills printed

This will never happen though, because nobody is as generous as they think they are.

It is a bit much, isn't it?

Here is my point. There is absolutely no easy fix. Why do you think we ended up with fractional reserve banking? Do you think we could all lug around gold pieces? Should we be expected to always be carrying around currency in a big leather satchel with a large "$" on the side? How do you think employers should pay their employees come pay day?

Here is my problem with this entire debate that revolves around more than this conversation.

Everyone has an opinion, no matter how ridiculous or not. 99.9995% of them, while it may sound good on paper, are absolutely impossible to implement or carry other stigmas that make it impossible in the year 2010 to implement. Remember, fractional reserve banking allows for you to get paid when you cash your check at the "store on the corner", debit cards, home mortgages, checking accounts -> already listed pages ago.

So then instead of trying to make sense of what is going on in reality people then people go off on tangents that don't apply to real world scenarios. Then come the words "Keynesian" and "Neoclassical Synthesis" like they truly understand what they are talking about. At the same time these very same people cannot tell you how they would go about circumventing the problems they will be creating that previously were not before they "intervened" after they were allowed to right the wrongs from past generations fingerprints .

Nothing is perfect. I have never said fractional reserve banking is perfect. Is it a solution? Yes. Are there pro's and con's? Yes.

Let's put it this way. Would you mind if you had to live with your parents until you were 50 years old and during this time had to work 2 jobs to finally afford your $150,000 house at retirement? The classic rebuttal to this of course is :

"Well, if the FED wasn't in charge ...... then XYZ instead of ABC...." This is total BS - In reality the only thing the FED does is set interest rate policy, that is it. There are about 10,000 tangents that people love to go off on, but never relate to anything tangible nor anything that resembles a real world scenario.

With the creativity exhibited from people in this world relating to this macroeconomic fantasy that they can all easily describe I am wondering why none of these has come to fruition yet? If there is a better way and it is solid, 100% concrete, absolutely flawless - not to mention better than what we have now - it would be implemented. It really would.

That is why I ask these people that have all the answers to legibly come up with something of substance that can be evaluated and most importantly implemented. If it has absolutely no real world application than why even bother bringing this foolishness up in the first place? Beat the banks at their own game now is the only way out. Outsmart them, but you probably won't, unfortunately.

reply to post by Dance4Life


since there were no regulations or rules on derivitives, this was simply a global ponzi scheme. as of this post, briefly, have you heard of any that have been instituted, or are banks and investment houses doin the same thing now in dec.of 2010?

by the way, i have a trading account...and i lost big time on bear&sterns weekend debacle in 08' and i still remember the CEO on the thursday before it happened, publicly coming on CNBC and lieing to everybody how solvant BS was.

reply to post by crimvelvet


OK. But here is the problem - there will never be symmetry in anything that relates to human interaction given a large enough sample.

Just like the stock market. There will ALWAYS be information asymmetry because there is never a way for all humans to either

1) Be in agreement about stated information

2) All be competent to information provided

Think the gold standard is the answer? Not in 2010, I really believe it isn't. If you honestly believe it would be, without linking to some other website, please delineate how this would all come about. Also, be sure to add in consequences of such actions.

I'm personally not sold on it at all. I am not trying to be facetious, or slander you, but honestly interested. After you come up with this and the solutions then I will try to pick it apart the best I can. If it has no holes and can be implemented then at this point you may be "Person of the Year", that is unless you get backdoored like JA.

reply to post by jimmyx


Tell me which derivatives have absolutely "no rules". Do you really know what the definition of a derivative is? If you did then you would realize they have rules. One example would be an options contract, it most definitely has a set of rules.

"Derivative" is a commonly thrown around term that 95% of people have absolutely no idea what it really means. But it just sounds good because they heard it on TV and read something about one on the internet.

EDIT: By the way JX, never believe anything but your own research and gut instinct. That way you will never have anyone to blame but yourself. I've learned that lesson years ago as well.

Originally posted by Dance4Life
reply to post by jimmyx

 

Tell me which derivatives have absolutely "no rules". Do you really know what the definition of a derivative is? If you did then you would realize they have rules. One example would be an options contract, it most definitely has a set of rules.

"Derivative" is a commonly thrown around term that 95% of people have absolutely no idea what it really means. But it just sounds good because they heard it on TV and read something about one on the internet.

i can only go by what i have heard...a derivitive is simply a "package" of assembled loans bundled into one saleable product with a set rate of return.

reply to post by prepared4truth

Because economists have ALWAYS known the obvious fix. However, convolution is much easier to profit from.

It was a rhetorical question. Or maybe it was to see how someone else would explain it. In which case , Bravo !
Prep. Bravo !

reply to post by jimmyx


Yes, broadly used terms thrown around by the media. The media is all about selling advertising and this works best when they use words like "derivatives" that most people have no idea what it really means or entails. But it generates viewer participation and this leads to advertising revenue.

A derivative can be anything that deals with an underlying instrument.

Example

SP 500 VIX = Derivative of a derivative (tricky)

SP 500 Futures (ES) = Derivative

Options = Derivative

I think what you really meant were things like Mortgage Backed Securities. These have many rules actually and you can view the prospectus online if you search for them. But really the only players in these are large financial institutions. By the way, they really had nothing to do with what happened as a world economy if you look into it deeply enough.

What happened was congressional lax regulations regarding banks and loans. You see what the Senate tried (and obviously accomplished) was pushing blame far away from them and throwing it on the banks (the evil bad guys). This worked perfectly in the media.

I invite you to go back and re-watch the Senate hearing with Goldman Sachs and what a sham that really was. It is about 4-5 hours IIRC, but if you understand the term market maker you will understand how laughable all of this really is after investigation. GS VP's and President could have rolled over the Senators but it was obvious it was in their best interests never to give a rebuttal. I believe it was their VP of (some dept.) that basically outlined in a few sentences why the Senators are borderline retarded - put VERY eloquently in response - went way over the Senators head. Then they just continued to make fools of themselves with the continuing lines of question.

Don't trust anything you hear form the media without your own personal research. The blame for all of this in actuality falls back on congress. But they needed to get reelected right? So, impossible, they had absolutely nothing to do with anything. Hands were totally clean.

Originally posted by Dance4Life
Think you can live without FRB? Giving up..

1. Home mortgage

2. Credit cards

3. Debit cards

4. Checking accounts

5. Car loans

6. Multiple lines of insurance

I can do without any of this.. I do now.. This crap doesnt bother me.. I get paid goto walmart cash check.. 3 bucks if over like 500 bucks..

So yes.. I can do without these and i think many other people can also.. I didnt get caught up in the lines of credit crap when i was younger so i dont have obscene amounts of debt to deal with.. Ironically i cant own a home because of credit issues but meh.. I can save 30g if i really wanted to and buy a house if i really wanted to.. so ya all this stuff is useless.. Alot of people live without this crap anyway.. if they can do it many others can.. Its along the lines of breaking away from the norm.. I know its hard.. but i am sure we all can do it..