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Fractional Reserve Banking

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posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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I can't say this is how it works because if you take the time to watch this. You will come away knowing that it doesn't work at all. You'll also see that it is just to late for any of us.



This economy is like watch that has been wound to tight and yet timing is everything. The bankers know this. thats why the looting of America.
edit on 22-12-2010 by randyvs because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 08:09 PM
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Ya Amerikans like being looted.. As long as they got football beer and stupid reality tv.. The PTB can basically rape the crap out of Amerika and these idiots will do nothing about it.. Take football or beer away.. it will be hell in the streets..

PLEASE TAKE AWAY FOOTBALL!!!1 AND BEER!



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by ThichHeaded
 


Thic It is a scary thought, but man I'm afraid you are so right about that
Take away football and beer? I know I would be pissed.
Very sad.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 05:25 PM
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I guess i might as well bump this damn thread just to see if anyone else has any interest at all. I'll pay close attention and edit this pup if I need to.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 05:34 PM
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Zeitgeist addendum is indeed a very good movie, although much of a plug for the Venus project. but that being said, it is quite old, and covers material which maybe a lot of people already on this forum know quite well. Which is why everyone is so pissed at the banks. and maybe why you're not getting many hits, as its been discussed to death here.

Watch out for Zeitgeist 3 "The way forward" coming out early 2011



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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hi, I didn't watch the movie but I understand what fractionized banking is and how it works. I really sad part is the banks have created trillions of $$$ of CDO's which are rated as good as US Treasury bond. If you go to www.usawatchdog.com where Greg Hunter an investigational journalist who has been writing about this ....



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by JakiusFogg
Zeitgeist addendum is indeed a very good movie, although much of a plug for the Venus project. but that being said, it is quite old, and covers material which maybe a lot of people already on this forum know quite well. Which is why everyone is so pissed at the banks. and maybe why you're not getting many hits, as its been discussed to death here.

Watch out for Zeitgeist 3 "The way forward" coming out early 2011


Yeah, the movie paints a great picture of fractional reserve banking and the Ponzi scheme it perpetuates.

That Venus project is some off the wall stuff though. It's basically a bunch of fantasy fiction based socialism.

They might be able to pull it off on a local level the size of a small town, but they don't actually have any economic model presented that makes any logical sense at all. It's all kind of fuzzy-pie-in-the-sky speech without any specifics given.


edit on 23-12-2010 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 05:58 PM
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Beyond the manipulation of currencies, banks have conspired with government to create demand where none really exists. Most people do not have enough wealth to store in a bank, and many are in no position to apply for a loan from a bank, but do business with banks anyway. Why?

It is no accident that the same year the so called "Personal Income Tax" was created, so was the Federal Reserve. For the past 100 years both banks and U.S. governments, (federal, state, and local), have conspired to force the average American to accept paychecks instead of cash. While there are some who would argue it is more convenient for them to be paid by check, or through electronic transfer, many, many, Americans would prefer to be paid in cash.

By moving towards a pay system where all are paid by checks this has facilitated a fiat tax collection system imposed upon employers by the IRS, and created demand for banking accounts that otherwise wouldn't exist, and if you owe the IRS any money, if you have money in a bank account, they will seize that money and the banks will gladly comply without even informing you, and if you write a check that bounces because you had your banks account emptied out by the IRS, your bank will demand you pay a fee for that bounced check.

I have friends who, when we go out to eat, will walk into a restaurant, discover the ATM fee is too high and insist we walk, or drive around to find a bank or ATM machine with a better fee, often times it culminating in simply just returning to the restaurant we intended to eat at and they wind up paying the fee they worked so hard at avoiding. It is an insane irony that they will methodically play these ritual games but insist that they can't possibly boycott a bank because that would make their lives more difficult.

Sigh.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 





I'll pay close attention and edit this pup if I need to.

SIGHHHHhhhh

I wish my old computer would let me watch the video. I absolutely HATE Fractional Reserve Banking.

For those like me who rather read, here is more on how the Banksters rape the USA:

It has been called "the most astounding piece of sleight of hand ever invented." The creation of money has been privatized, usurped from Congress by a private banking cartel. Most people think money is issued by fiat by the government, but that is not the case. Except for coins, which compose only about one one-thousandth of the total U.S. money supply, all of our money is now created by banks....

...First National Bank of Montgomery vs. Daly (1969) was a courtroom drama worthy of a movie script.3 Defendant Jerome Daly opposed the bank's foreclosure on his $14,000 home mortgage loan on the ground that there was no consideration for the loan. "Consideration" ("the thing exchanged") is an essential element of a contract....

.."It sounds like fraud to me," intoned Presiding Justice Martin Mahoney amid nods from the jurors. In his court memorandum, Justice Mahoney stated:

" Plaintiff admitted that it, in combination with the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis, . . . did create the entire $14,000.00 in money and credit upon its own books by bookkeeping entry. That this was the consideration used to support the Note dated May 8, 1964 and the Mortgage of the same date. The money and credit first came into existence when they created it. Mr. Morgan admitted that no United States Law or Statute existed which gave him the right to do this. A lawful consideration must exist and be tendered to support the Note."

The court rejected the bank's claim for foreclosure, and the defendant kept his house....

ustice Mahoney, who was not dependent on campaign financing or hamstrung by precedent, went so far as to threaten to prosecute and expose the bank. He died less than six months after the trial, in a mysterious accident that appeared to involve poisoning.4 Since that time, a number of defendants have attempted to avoid loan defaults using the defense Daly raised; but they have met with only limited success. As one judge said off the record:

"If I let you do that – you and everyone else – it would bring the whole system down. . . . I cannot let you go behind the bar of the bank. . . . We are not going behind that curtain!"

From time to time, however, the curtain has been lifted long enough for us to see behind it. A number of reputable authorities have attested to what is going on, including Sir Josiah Stamp, president of the Bank of England and the second richest man in Britain in the 1920s. He declared in an address at the University of Texas in 1927:

"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin . . . . Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and, with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again. . . . Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in. . . . But, if you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit. "

Web of Debt: DOLLAR DECEPTION: HOW BANKS SECRETLY CREATE MONEY by Ellen Brown, J.D. (A J.D. earned at an ABA-approved law school meets the educational requirements in every jurisdiction in the United States.)
www.webofdebt.com...




posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 06:11 PM
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Banks needless to say can be quite dirté. That really doesn't have anything to do though with Fractional Reserve Banking.

Think you can live without FRB? Giving up..

1. Home mortgage

2. Credit cards

3. Debit cards

4. Checking accounts

5. Car loans

6. Multiple lines of insurance


I could probably go on but there is no point. We need credit to ascertain bigger and better things sometimes. There is no other way around it unless you believe in some form of a resource based economy. That is a pipedream at best.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 06:56 PM
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reply to post by Dance4Life
 





Banks needless to say can be quite dirté. That really doesn't have anything to do though with Fractional Reserve Banking.


Under a free market system, without the problem of cartelization, perhaps this statement would be correct. Such is not the case. Consider Murray Rothbard's explanation of Fractional Reserve Banking made simple:


Let's see how the fractional reserve process works, in the absence of a central bank. I set up a Rothbard Bank, and invest $1,000 of cash (whether gold or government paper does not matter here). Then I "lend out" $10,000 to someone, either for consumer spending or to invest in his business. How can I "lend out" far more than I have? Ahh, that's the magic of the "fraction" in the fractional reserve. I simply open up a checking account of $10,000 which I am happy to lend to Mr. Jones. Why does Jones borrow from me? Well, for one thing, I can charge a lower rate of interest than savers would. I don't have to save up the money myself, but simply can counterfeit it out of thin air. (In the nineteenth century, I would have been able to issue bank notes, but the Federal Reserve now monopolizes note issues.) Since demand deposits at the Rothbard Bank function as equivalent to cash, the nation's money supply has just, by magic, increased by $10,000. The inflationary, counterfeiting process is under way.


Rothbard continues:


The nineteenth-century English economist Thomas Tooke correctly stated that "free trade in banking is tantamount to free trade in swindling." But under freedom, and without government support, there are some severe hitches in this counterfeiting process, or in what has been termed "free banking." First: why should anyone trust me? Why should anyone accept the checking deposits of the Rothbard Bank? But second, even if I were trusted, and I were able to con my way into the trust of the gullible, there is another severe problem, caused by the fact that the banking system is competitive, with free entry into the field. After all, the Rothbard Bank is limited in its clientele. After Jones borrows checking deposits from me, he is going to spend it. Why else pay money for a loan? Sooner or later, the money he spends, whether for a vacation, or for expanding his business, will be spent on the goods or services of clients of some other bank, say the Rockwell Bank. The Rockwell Bank is not particularly interested in holding checking accounts on my bank; it wants reserves so that it can pyramid its own counterfeiting on top of cash reserves. And so if, to make the case simple, the Rockwell Bank gets a $10,000 check on the Rothbard Bank, it is going to demand cash so that it can do some inflationary counterfeit-pyramiding of its own. But, I, of course, can't pay the $10,000, so I'm finished. Bankrupt. Found out. By rights, I should be in jail as an embezzler, but at least my phoney checking deposits and I are out of the game, and out of the money supply.


And concludes by stating:


Hence, under free competition, and without government support and enforcement, there will only be limited scope for fractional-reserve counterfeiting. Banks could form cartels to prop each other up, but generally cartels on the market don't work well without government enforcement, without the government cracking down on competitors who insist on busting the cartel, in this case, forcing competing banks to pay up.


Attempting to reduce the arguments of those who are advocating a freer market system down to a "resource based economy" is disingenuous at best, and insidious at worst. If Fractional Reserve Banking is such a necessity then let the free and unregulated marketplace be the place that those who need it get it. Using government to force this system on people does not demonstrate a need for credit as much it demonstrates the need for an aggregation of power.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by Dance4Life
 





I could probably go on but there is no point. We need credit to ascertain bigger and better things sometimes.


Credit does nothing but put YOUR wealth into a bankers pockets. So you have no problem with someone getting you to sign a contract saying you OWE him $100,000 dollars plus 8% interest and he gives you nothing in return except an entry in an accounting book that he swaps for another meaningless entry in another bank's accounting book?

So we need credit. Ever hear of Venture Capitalists or SAVING for what you wish to buy? Have you ever wondered WHY we now NEED so much credit??

I can tell you from my own experience:
Here is a money/gold/wages chart:
Date.....$ /oz gold.. Money supply....minimum wage.....Pay in gold......CEO in gold
1959 .......35.25 ...........50.1 billion.........$1.00..................0.0284 oz.
1974 ......195.20...........101 billion...........$2.00...................0.0102 oz.
1976 ......124.74 ........... $113 billion.......$2.30..................0.0184 oz............0.663.oz
1985 .....354.20 ...........$205 billion........$3.35....................0.0094 oz.
1994 .....409.80........... $ 406 billion.......$4.25.....................0.0104.oz.
2006 .....636.30 ...........$808 billion........$5.15.....................0.0081 oz.
2008 .....880.30........... $831 billion........$5.85....................0.0066 oz.............2.44.oz
2009...1,020.28...........$1663 billion........$6.55.....................0.0064.oz.

In 1974 I earned $2.75/hr I had a nice two bedroom apartment for $100, a car for $2,000 I paid off in a year and I could afford to buy and stable a horse. Oh, and a nice house sold for about $15,000 to $20,000. (Mom was a real estate agent)

In 1974 I earned $4.45/hr I had a nice two bedroom apartment again for $100/mo, a car for $5,000 I paid off in a year and I could afford to buy and stable a horse. I was also living on less than $50/wk spending money for groc, gas, electric, phone and books. I was putting into savings over a hundred a month (about 10-15% of my salary) Now think about it. If I had been married, my spouse and I could have saved up the money to buy that house at 15,000 to 20,000 outright in about five or so years if we both continued to work. The problem is the price of the house went up and our actual wages nose dived thanks to the banksters and politicians.

So lets see what actually happened.


In 1976 A typical American CEO earned 36 times as much as the average worker. By 2008 the average CEO pay increased to 369 times that of the average worker. timelines.ws...


If you look at the table the typical American CEO is actually paid five times MORE in “buying power” compared to 1976 while the rest of us are now paid a third of what we were paid in 1976. The price of gold indicates the steady devaluation of the US dollar as it's purchasing power is diluted by the ever increasing supply of fiat money.

Between the devaluation of our wages and the inflation of the price of goods due to taxes and due to the dilution of the value of money from the increased supply, we can no longer SAVE to buy things. All the excess "fat" from the economy has been siphoned off and placed in the bankers pockets.

This also means no one has real wealth to lend. Real wealth is based on labor and raw materials that produce salable goods.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


That is a really bad analogy just for one reason. Because you are totally discounting anyone that has done anything well in life. Let me show you an example.

Dance4Life receives 10:1 Leverage to use in Index/Commodity Futures

So, 10,000 now equals 100,000

With my 10,000 levered at 10:1, I have gained over 500% rolling over derivative contracts over a timespan of 5 years. The math is simple, so is the analogy, but the example makes sense.

But lets say that Dance4Life takes out a $1,000,000 business loan at the low rates that are currently available. Do you really not believe that you could make money with greater than 10:1 leverage with the low rates currently available to all?

It is a bargain right now to finance an expedition that has a sound fundamental business model.

By the way, if we take into account inflation, gold is a terrible way to price/value anything over an extended period of time. That goes for any precious metal actually. Take a look at the adjusted for inflation prices of gold, silver->... Flat for about the past 30 years while equity markets over that same time period are up well over 500% adjusted for inflation (without fact checking at this moment, most likely closer to 1000% edit: at 10:1 leverage).


Gold Inflation Adjusted

Silver, but not updated recently

Sp500 Long Term Adjusted For Inflation





edit on 23-12-2010 by Dance4Life because: filling in information



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by Dance4Life
 





By the way, if we take into account inflation, gold is a terrible way to price/value anything over an extended period of time.


Of course, an advocate of Fractional Reserve Banking would have to take inflation into account, because inflation, as Milton Friedman once said; "is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". From Friedman's point of view, inflation, or deflation, is influenced by how fast the money supply is inflated, or deflated, mainly through the creation of bank notes.

It is a circular logic to argue that a gold supply would not work as a replacement to Fractional Reserve Banking because of inflation.

Of course, from a Keynesian point of view, there is an admission that money is a major factor in the influence of inflation, but not the only cause of inflation. One of the most notable differences between the monetarists, and the advocates of Keynesian economics is that the monetarists insist, (virtually all being in agreement), that there is empirical data to support their argument that inflation is a money problem, and the Keynesian 's will often disagree with each other, to the point that today we now have "Post Keynesian Economists", and they will so complicate the matter of economy, with their "triangle models" and "endogenous money theories" to the point that no one can agree. Conversely, the monetarists, keeping it simple, maintain that any change in the amount of money in a market system will change the price level.

Under the monetarist view, the only type of inflation one would have to take into account, regarding a gold based currency, would be when there is an upsurge in the gold supply.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Well I guess I take into account reality.

Not much use taking into account hypotheticals in a real world conversation. You can put any slant you want on it, but it is certainly our reality.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by Dance4Life
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Well I guess I take into account reality.

Not much use taking into account hypotheticals in a real world conversation. You can put any slant you want on it, but it is certainly our reality.


Disingenuous or insidious, it matters not, when it is stated that monetarists rely on empirical data to support their view, and you attempt to refute that view by calling it "hypothetical", either you are grossly ignorant of what empirical means, or you have something else going on. Good luck with that "reality" of yours.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 




Disingenuous or insidious, it matters not, when it is stated that monetarists rely on empirical data to support their view, and you attempt to refute that view by calling it "hypothetical", either you are grossly ignorant of what empirical means, or you have something else going on.


He had something else going on "legalized swindling"

He showed his true colors, when he said:


With my 10,000 levered at 10:1, I have gained over 500% rolling over derivative contracts over a timespan of 5 years.


derivative contracts
From 2008 BEFORE the crash:

Derivatives And Dangerous Times
Robert Lenzner, 09.16.08, 01:41 PM EDT
The gears of global finance are in danger of grinding to a halt if its biggest players can't pay their bets.

The collapse of Lehman Brothers has triggered an enormous crisis in derivative markets. Prior to the firm's spectacularly swift demise, no major counterparty in the world's biggest financial market had ever gone under. A major counterparty failure threatens the delicate web of trading in securities that are gargantuan in dollar amounts but totally lacking in transparency to the public.

AIG has a credit default swap portfolio of $400 billion notional value, but it cannot be fairly valued because there is literally no real market for many of these contracts, Croesus has learned. The CDS book must be marked to market, but with a frozen market, AIG's accountants are employing strict fair value accounting and making AIG mark the values down severely. On top of that, AIG has to post more collateral against these declining positions....


And a short time later the rest of us got stuck bailing their tails out when their bets went belly up and they could not pay the piper.

No wonder he is so gung ho on Fractional Reserve Banking. He sounds like the people during the Roaring Twenties before the bankers pulled the rug out from under them and they started taking swan dives out of tenth floor windows.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by JakiusFogg
Zeitgeist addendum is indeed a very good movie, although much of a plug for the Venus project. but that being said, it is quite old, and covers material which maybe a lot of people already on this forum know quite well. Which is why everyone is so pissed at the banks. and maybe why you're not getting many hits, as its been discussed to death here.

Watch out for Zeitgeist 3 "The way forward" coming out early 2011


Thanks for the tip on No. 3 Fogg. Very kewl. Hadn't heard that so I appreciate the info big time.

edit on 23-12-2010 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by Dance4Life
Banks needless to say can be quite dirté. That really doesn't have anything to do though with Fractional Reserve Banking.

Think you can live without FRB? Giving up..

1. Home mortgage

2. Credit cards

3. Debit cards

4. Checking accounts


5. Car loans

6. Multiple lines of insurance


I could probably go on but there is no point. We need credit to ascertain bigger and better things sometimes. There is no other way around it unless you believe in some form of a resource based economy. That is a pipedream at best.


Unless we tear down civilization ( the world ) as we know it. Then you are right no way around it.
Thank you peeps for some intelligent interjection.

edit on 23-12-2010 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by ThichHeaded
Ya Amerikans like being looted.. As long as they got football beer and stupid reality tv.. The PTB can basically rape the crap out of Amerika and these idiots will do nothing about it.. Take football or beer away.. it will be hell in the streets..

PLEASE TAKE AWAY FOOTBALL!!!1 AND BEER!


FOOTBALL BEER AND REALITY TV SUCKS...Yes I am American, but give me my Mcdonald's, Pepsi, and Law and Order; that doesn't fall under reality tv, does it? What is that oh crime drama, lol
Take those away and yeah if it's the right time of month, everybody better step off!!!!

Anyway I have not ever had a credit card (I have a prepaid greendot, but money is only put in from when I get tax returns or money sent by my hubby when he's out of town, then it's efficiently drawn out immediately), and I have never had a mortgage; I hate tv news, been boycotting it since the early 90's; the mistake I did make I was in the military, but I was medical, I was there to help the people that got hurt trying to protect the corporate facists, and I am torn on this on the one hand everybody deserves to recieve health care, especially those that are being snowballed by our facist corporations, but on the other hand was I part of the continuation of the horror Of the corporate facists? let's see oh I am not working for anybody right now, but I fully have decided when I do it will be for CASH alone no paychecks, and even if that means 10 bucks a day and a bowl of chili.
My car can go from here to bradenton & Back (about 100 miles I beleive) on like 1/2 tank of gas and it would have only moved about down to the mark just below half a tank. Plus I hardly drive anywhere. What else did he say to boycott in the vid?
Well anyway, I am trying I beleive though, that eventually when more people catch on and stop working, buying, loaning, the Facist F______ will just employ marshal law and then we will truly be slaves...forced to work with no pay, let's say they will invent a debt for not being "in debt" on our own that we will never be able to pay back, tht's not quite right maybe it'll be a "Fine" incurred on those who would not go into debt. Believe me it's coming!
edit on 23-12-2010 by ldyserenity because: damn keyboard is uncooperative... :/




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