Sun wheels, fire chariots and winged discs

reply to post by Skyfloating


Great thread.

I don't see the evidence as overwhelming in connecting your post with your title. For all we know the ancients could have depicted the moon as a flying being as well as the sun. The other point I wanted to get across is that many of these gods in the ancient times are kings themselves. In example, the Egyptian pharaohs were believed to be divine, some believed the animals were gods, Alexander the Great thought of himself as a god, the Japanese emperors were thought of as "kami" which is translated into god and etc.

So it would be foolish for us to think they seen flying discs but I am not ruling it out. My logic is telling me that if they shown themselves to the ancient primitives they would show themselves to us. We don't understand the terms they use or their times.

reply to post by Realtruth


I dont think it relates to this thread, but its beautiful nonetheless. Beautiful that you dreamed it and then discovered what it is.

Originally posted by Equinox99


Great thread.

I don't see the evidence as overwhelming in connecting your post with your title. For all we know the ancients could have depicted the moon as a flying being as well as the sun. The other point I wanted to get across is that many of these gods in the ancient times are kings themselves. In example, the Egyptian pharaohs were believed to be divine, some believed the animals were gods, Alexander the Great thought of himself as a god, the Japanese emperors were thought of as "kami" which is translated into god and etc.

So it would be foolish for us to think they seen flying discs but I am not ruling it out. My logic is telling me that if they shown themselves to the ancient primitives they would show themselves to us. We don't understand the terms they use or their times.

The evidence only starts becoming overwhelming when one takes this three part series into account (the first part which mentiones what you said about kings):

Part 1: Of Emperors and Sky Gods

Thanks for your Addition.

Originally posted by Kandinsky

The OP isn't allowing for this and isn't allowing for the facts that these symbols represent the Sun and deities associated in mythology with the Sun (Ra, Shamash, Apollo etc). The OP is making the claim that 'sun wheels' are the depiction of flying machines from parts unknown.

Ive considered the mainstream idea of People flying around in Discs, giving instructions to people, being culture bearers, being called "sky gods" and being described as "ascendng to the heavens" and landing again to be references to the sun. But that wouldnt make for an interesting ATS thread would it? It wouldnt even make for an interesting mainstream thread.

The Sun-Wheel topic is only a very small part of an overall series of threads I have made on the idea that an advanced civ. or ETs roamed the earth more than 10 000 years ago. And my goal is to make sense within the framework of this theory.

reply to post by Skyfloating
Yeah I know. By 'OP' I meant 'opening post' rather than 'opening poster' as in yourself. I'm disagreeing with the points in the opening post.

After a couple of years of opposing posts, I guess we're doomed to disagree on most of these topics.

If we ever agree on them, it'll be a shock to both our systems.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Yeah I know. By 'OP' I meant 'opening post' rather than 'opening poster' as in yourself. I'm disagreeing with the points in the opening post.

After a couple of years of opposing posts, I guess we're doomed to disagree on most of these topics.

If we ever agree on them, it'll be a shock to both our systems.

Ah...opening post not opening poster...that does make a difference.

You are an agreeable disagreer. Disagreers used to be much harsher back in the day.

Originally posted by Jason88
I have just one question, why depict the sun with spokes in it? Why not a solid circle, or just a circle without a center? It's spokes that literally make these ancient items a wheel, and a wheel moves.

If you read the simultaneously posted contributions at the top of page 2 made by myself and tetsui you will have lots of answers to that question.

Another thing you need to consider is that the sun and moon are intimately connected to how humans perceive time. The sun and moon move through the wheel of heaven as time passes. We measure time by dividing up the wheel and noting how the moon and sun passes through the wheel. Many cultures have divided that wheel into 12 segments and you could imagine each segment separated by radiating lines.

The lines dividing The Zodiac remind us of spokes. As the sun moves through the spokes we can measure time by watching its passage which is where the clock (sun-dial) came from. The link to the zodiac is more immediately obvious with the moon. It passes through 1 sign (or spoke of the wheel) per month whereas the sun passes through 1 every 2 hours.

Now look at the following image.



Notice you find man at the centre. In the excellent collection of ancient zodiacs in this article on Ptolemaic zodiacs you find the sun (apart from the first example where the earth is at the centre).

The idea many ancient priesthoods was that to perfect himself (they were mainly male unfortunately), man needed to be in balance with the universe which was symbolicallyy at the centre of the wheel of the heavens like the sun. Yes they knew the sun was at the centre thousands of years ago, which is obvious if you look at Helios (sun god) in the centre of those zodiacs. That is why the symbol for the self (freemasons will know this symbol) and the symbol for the sun are the same (i.e. the circle with a point at the centre)

So you see that the sun is mythically and symbolically interwoven with the concept of the vast wheel of the heavens - which it appears to move through, yet is also paradoxically at the centre of.

reply to post by Skyfloating
We agree on that.

I feel light-headed suddenly. lol

Originally posted by dialecticchaos77
This may not be related, but I remember weird wheel references in the Old Testament. Note: I am not preaching, or bringing religion into this as the explanation. I just thought the reference was significant.

(Ezekiel 1:1, 4-5,15-16, NKJV)

Dialecticchaos77, good point and nicely put -if you've not seen before there's an interesting article here about Ezekiel's wheel by NASA engineer Josef F. Blumrichbelow - there's also lots of mention of stationary clouds, sky thrones, fiery chariots, flying rolls, pillars of light, platforms, vessels and fiery wheels in the sky - it all sounds pretty intriguing, especialy when the objects are described as exhibiting rapid, prolonged flight; hovering; ascending or descending.

Cheers.

reply to post by this_is_who_we_are


Same for me - I was drawn here for the truth in our creation/manipulation and guidance from ancient travelers.

Our history and its documentation is all shown to show a craft - undescribable and undecipherable at the time in giving description of what they were witnessing - they are what they are. I know we are linked to something outside our world. Our DNA (manipulated strand) is currently in many areas of space itself, I am sure of it. We all share a common bond which gives us the curiosity to know - all of what we are!

From the star of Bethlehem to the building and perfect mathematics of the Pyramids - they are all linked!

To deny it - is to deny the truth. You can feel the higher bond of our creation burning within you - don't deny it! For we are them, just learning and ridding ourselves of a violent primordial bond.

You know, at first, I was pretty skeptical of the "Ancient Astronaut" theory but once evidence suggests itself from not just ONE ancient civilisation but from dozens, if not hundreds across the entire globe then you really do have to wonder... did these people really see what they depict on old tablets, on the side of pyramids that shouldn't have been possible to build? How can one civilisation talk about flying wagon wheels that spit fire on one side of the globe, and then another talk about the same thing despite not being able to contact the other?

Religious/spiritual metaphors and analogies only go so far before all the dots match up.

One poster apposed the idea on the basis that if this technology did exist, where is it now? It's not like we had a cataclysmic world wide event that wiped all life out, and with it, all signs of an advanced race from another world... But what if this event happened elsewhere, off planet, and this race had to up sticks, take everything with them, and rush to meet this "threat"? Who knows. But to reply directly to this, there are signs everywhere of advanced technology. In my belief, the Pyramids of Giza stand as one.

I suggest watching "Ancient Aliens - The Evidence". Gets a little "scrapping the barrel" near parts 7,8 and 9 but the beginning 6 really make you think.

reply to post by Pimander


Thank you for the explanation. As I interpret your post it's that the sun and moon, man's journey, religion, and the seasons (spokes are the environmental markers) - are all involved with time. So, the wheel as-the-sun is a both a concept of time and man's understanding of how the planet works

Then, these pictures the OP provides depicted man's intimate understanding of these vast, complicated concepts; is it fair to say that these relics exist across ancient civilizations to prove to one another that they are as "smart" as the last group? That each is progressing by possessing this knowledge. Does that make sense? Then why has mankind changed its artistic representation of the sun - was the written word non-existence then?

reply to post by Skyfloating


Didn't Captain Jack have one these to steer his boat
and wasn't there one the Millenium Falcon, and I think I have one on my Car.

did'nt see these anywhere

www.controlq.com...

www.flickr.com...

Great post, exactly my kind of interest - so much it seems is coming up now or coming together.
The Celtic Cross as an instrument is very interesting.
I'm gonna flag this.

I decided to do a little digging on the Vatican and found this:



A lot like the Sun Wheel and a very curious epitaph......"Here is born a people of noble race, destined for Heaven".

The basilica was built by Constantine and dedicated by Pope Sixtus III in the 4th century. One of the best things about the Lateran is the baptistery, though it is a beautiful church in general, but I love the 8-sided baptistery.

There one reads: Here is born a people of noble race, destined for Heaven, whom the Spirit brings forth in the waters he has made fruitful. Mother Church conceives her offspring by the breath of God, and bears them virginally in this water. Hope for the Kingdom of Heaven, you who are reborn in this font. Eternal life does not await those who are only born once. This is the spring of life that waters the whole world, Taking its origin from the Wounds of Christ. Sinner, to be purified, go down into the holy water. It receives the unregenerate and brings him forth a new man. If you wish to be made innocent, be cleansed in this pool, whether you are weighed down by original sin or your own. There is no barrier between those who are reborn and made one by the one font, the one Spirit, and the one faith. Let neither the number nor the kind of their sins terrify anyone; Once reborn in this water, they will be holy.

Source

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The symbol people have been most obsessed with as far back as the Stonge Age is the so-called "Sun-Wheel". This is also one of the only symbols found all over the world, from India to Ireland, from South America to Siberia.
This article proposes that the sun wheel, the "chariots of fire" and the "winged sun disc" are one and the same thing: Ancient flying devices used by extraterrestrials or technologically advanced humans.

The reason we can be fairly certain that the "spoked chariot wheels", "winged sun discs", "solar discs", "chariots of fire" and "sun wheels" refer to the same thing is because ancient scriptures refer to them in these different words and because they are sometimes shown with wings and sometimes without. Its reasonable to assume that the wings are shown in order to indicate "these discs fly!". Its as if the ancients wanted to make sure to communicate that message over long spands of time, by adding wings.

Hi Skyfloating, interesting thread, [as always]

I really think that it is very well possible that in some cases, some of those "spoked chariot wheels", "winged sun discs", "solar discs", "chariots of fire" and "sun wheels" could have been in fact a representation of witnessed UFO’s, or a better word for it [extraterrestrial crafts] back then.

Because those UFO's, which are today also called UAP’s or ETV’s are also a worldwide phenomenon.

But regarding the wheel shape, I did ask myself the question, how did they came to the conclusion to compare those objects with wheels then?
Could it be that some of those flying objects did look indeed at wheels, and if so, are those wheel like flying objects also been seen in much later times?

Well, it looks as if that is indeed the case, because here are some pretty interesting witness accounts of them.

It seems that even Ezekiel witnessed a possible wheel like UFO landing.

Ezekiel's Wheel, 593 BC

Ezekiel 1:15 (NIV)
As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1d9db99e89e2.jpg[/atsimg]

Ezekiel 1:16-21 (NIV)
This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like chrysolite, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not turn about as the creatures went. Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around. When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

www.ufoevidence.org...

An unusual French coin made in the 1680s in France. Experts have spent decades looking at the 17th century coin, but still have no idea what it is.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b320553e409a.jpg[/atsimg]

This drawing depicts a UFO sighting over Hamburg, Germany on the 4th November 1697. These mysterious objects were described as “two glowing wheels”

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7a679dac448d.jpg[/atsimg]

www.in5d.com...

Here are some other examples of seen fire like wheels, but I have to badly no original source to back them up so to say.

1387
England, Northamptonshire: A fire in the sky, like a burning and revolving wheel, or round barrel of flame, emitting fire from above, and others in the shape of a long fiery beam, were seen through a great deal of the winter.

1394
England: "A certain thing appeared in the likeness of fire in many parts of England every night. This fiery apparition, oftentimes when anybody went alone, it would go with him, and would stand still when he stood still. To some it appeared in the likeness of a turning wheel burning; to other some a round object, the likeness of a barrel, flashing out flames of fire at the head; to others, the likeness of a long burning lance."

www.bibleufo.com...

1879
Persian Gulf: The S.S. Vulture crew reported, two luminous rotating wheels, about 130 ft. across, seen above the water before diving

1880
• Persian Gulf: The British steamer Patna was traversing the waters of the when around mid- night the captain and several other members of crew all saw two enormous glowing wheels each estimated to be 500 to 600 meters in diameter appeared underwater on each side of the ship. The wheels were spinning, one on each side with the spokes touching the ship. The sighting lasted 20 minutes and was witnessed by Captain Avern, third officer Manning, and Lee Fort Brace.

www.bibleufo.com...

1897
• USA, Arkansas, Homan: Capt. James Hooton was hunting in the vicinity of Homan when he heard the noise of a steam engine and found an object in a clearing. It looked like a cylinder with pointed ends, lateral wheels, and horizontal blade over it. Hooton spoke with a man who wore dark glasses and walked behind the craft. There were three or four occupants. The witness was told this was indeed "The Airship" and that it used compressed air for propulsion. Hooton saw the wheels spin as the craft rose and flew away.

www.bibleufo.com...

1906
• China Sea: Giant luminous wheels were seen by a British steamer.

1909
• Persian Gulf: Objects described as rotating wheels, which could go under water were sighted and a Danish captain.

www.bibleufo.com...

1917
• USA, Colorado, Salida: Minister and family use a telescope to watch a silver UFO shaped like a wagon wheel.

www.bibleufo.com...

1940
• Hungary, Bata: "Fiery cartwheel" UFO is seen ascending from a hilltop in Bata, Hungary.

www.bibleufo.com...

1947
Project Blue Book Unknowns
• Canada, July 10, 1947; Harmon Field, Newfoundland, Canada. Between 3 and 5 p.m. local time. Witnesses: three ground crewmen, including Mr. Leidy, for Pan American Airways. Watched briefly while one translucent disc- or wheel-shaped object flew very fast, leaving a dark blue trail and then ascended and cut a path through the clouds.

1958
Project Blue Book Unknowns
• Libya Sept. 1, 1958; Wheelus AFB, Libya. 12:15 a.m. Witness: Philco technical representative A.M. Slaton. One round, blue-white object flew at varying speeds. First sighting lasted 2 minutes, second lasted 1.5 minutes.

1963
Project Blue Book Unknowns
• USA, New Jersey May 22, 1963; Pequannock, New Jersey. 10:45 p.m. Witness: Myra Jackson. Four pink wheels spun or rolled very fast from east to west in succession, each taking about 1 second.

1965
• Brazil, Alto Purus: After work, latex collectors saw an object resembling a huge wheel, intensely bright, with two flaming openings in front, about to land near them. They went into hiding, and observed the craft as it flew away.

1966
France, Attigneville: Jean Voilquin, 54, saw a strange "wheel" roll 15 m away at a speed of about 30 km/h. It was about 80 cm in diameter, 25 cm thick; it rolled away and vanished.

www.bibleufo.com...

reply to post by Kandinsky

I am going to call obstinacy...come on friend, there is a ton of evidence as to probable pre- historical societies. There are also ridiculous examples of huge cataclysmic events, shared as religious stories or myth, but also scientifically validated by geology. I mean heck I dont believe I need to source the Ice Age, but I will. I shouldn't have to source..how many mass extinction events?...6? I don't know but one definitely covers your criteria.

Just because an idea racks an established paradigm, doesn't mean it's not at the very least a viable avenue for research into the ultimate anthropogenic truth.

I oft times wonder what kind of fear holds people to such a myopic world view, and dont say verifiable science...as the problem is indicative of the reason, there are many other dimensions other than the 3rd dimension, and just because you rely on air to breathe doesnt mean everything else does...there is much that a little mental discipline can uncover through meditation for instance that your concrete needs of sharable validity can never accommodate.

Without reading this entire thread, It seems you have forgotten Sitchin's pivotal

interpretation of all flying and winged discs of ancient sumer as related to NIBIRU;

'southern cross' is considered synonymous as are many of the variants you have

wonderfully depicted. The planet of the crossing apparently looked just like that

to the ancient world. Marduk later vainly usurped the title and may have contributed to

the egyptian concept of Amun-Ra (the hidden one).

The separate concept of "wheels within wheels" from ezekiel may indeed reference

flying machines, like the vedic term "Vimana" (Indus valley peoples' term for flying machine).

Sumerian cuneiform also defined a 'sky ship' (MU) differently from the winged disc (Ni.Bi.RU)

These two symbols should not be confused together!

reply to post by Skyfloating


Hello Skyfloating, excellent post. You may want to read "Uriel's Machine" by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas. This very good book proposes how not so ancient men used these "machines" laying out henges, pyramids, etc. Lots of good stuff in it equally as perplexing.
Very good!