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Originally posted by seeknoevil
In Biblical text, Lucifer the morning star, rebelled against God l and became the father of lies when he proclaimed that he could bring all souls back to the Father.
Originally posted by JoshNorton
And that's an important distinction to make. Again, Pike scoffed at the idea of a devil, thinking it a primitive man's way of explaining evil in the world. But if he professed Gnostic philosophies, that doesn't make him a fan of the character Lucifer.
Originally posted by KSigMason
It is my opinion that no ritual of Freemasonry pushes one towards apotheosis.
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Incorrect. What Pike is trying to say is that those who are just initiates ascribe to the mythological form of Pan, whence came Lucifer. Pike does not believe in any of them, that is the point he is trying to make and those that do are but initiates and do not fully understand God.
Originally posted by seeknoevil
You don't agree with me, and that is okay. So I have made my point here and don't think anything else is to be made from it. It seems to me that I am provoking you in some way and that is not my intent . So I will bail this thread .
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Originally posted by seeknoevil
You don't agree with me, and that is okay. So I have made my point here and don't think anything else is to be made from it. It seems to me that I am provoking you in some way and that is not my intent . So I will bail this thread .
So instead of backing up what you claimed you opt to run out of the thread?
Wikipedia says
Originally posted by The GUT
And as such, you realize that to the Christian, we see Gnosticism (which leads to moral dualism) with it's divine creator who encompasses both good and evil, as having a historical lineage including Egypt's primary god's and the Indian Vedanta, Buddhism, and to some degree, as previously mentioned, the yin-yang of Chinese spirituality.
...
I've never been a fan of dualism.
Isn't that what Christianity preaches when they try to scare people with the idea of a devil? Eternal conflict between good and evil? That sounds like bitheism to me.
Moral dualism is the belief of the great complement or conflict between the benevolent and the malignant.
Originally posted by seeknoevil
Our beliefs are vastly contrary to one another it seems and I have no wish to 'degrade' or insult members here.
Originally posted by seeknoevil
In Biblical text, Lucifer the morning star, rebelled against God l and became the father of lies when he proclaimed that he could bring all souls back to the Father.
Originally posted by JoshNorton
Not baiting you here, I really don't get it. You're saying Christians think Dualism is a bad thing, yet they are the ones who are saying there is a conflict. I'm saying (and Pike is saying) that it's all the Will of God; it's all part of His plan. While Christians invent a scapegoat to place the blame elsewhere. How is that not Dualism?
Originally posted by The GUT
Now I ask you: What happens to a man after death in the Masonic mystical sense?
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Originally posted by The GUT
Now I ask you: What happens to a man after death in the Masonic mystical sense?
Masonry does not describe the afterlife. It only requires that a candidate believe the sould is eternal.
Not sure. There's this one
Originally posted by The GUT
And speaking of an NWO, if I remember correctly, there is some language in Morals & Dogma about Freemasons and society building that had what might be perceived as the whiff of NWO about them? Does that ring any bells?
pp19-20
But it is also the duty of Masonry to assist in elevating the moral and intellectual level of society; in coining knowledge, bringing ideas into circulation, and causing the mind of youth to grow; and in putting, gradually, by the teachings of axioms and the promulgation of positive laws, the human race in harmony with its destinies.
To this duty and work the Initiate is apprenticed. He must not imagine that he can effect nothing, and, therefore, despairing, become inert. It is in this, as in a man's daily life. Many great deeds are done in the small struggles of life. There is, we are told, a determined though unseen bravery, which defends itself, foot to foot, in the darkness, against the fatal invasion of necessity and of baseness. There are noble and mysterious triumphs, which no eye sees, which no renown rewards, which no flourish of trumpets salutes. Life, misfortune, isolation, abandonment, poverty, are battle-fields, which have their heroes,--heroes obscure, but sometimes greater than those who become illustrious. The Mason should struggle in the same manner, and with the same bravery, against those invasions of necessity and baseness, which come to nations as well as to men. He should meet them, too, foot to foot, even in the darkness, and protest against the national wrongs and follies; against usurpation and the first inroads of that hydra, Tyranny. There is no more sovereign eloquence than the truth in indignation. It is more difficult for a people to keep than to gain their freedom. The Protests of Truth are always needed. Continually, the right must protest against the fact. There is, in fact, Eternity in the Right. The Mason should be the Priest and Soldier of that Right. If his country should be robbed of her liberties, he should still not despair. The protest of the Right against the Fact persists forever. The robbery of a people never becomes prescriptive. Reclamation of its rights is barred by no length of time. Warsaw can no more be Tartar than Venice can be Teutonic. A people may endure military usurpation, and subjugated States kneel to States and wear the yoke, while under the stress of necessity; but when the necessity disappears, if the people is fit to be free, the submerged country will float to the surface and reappear, and Tyranny be adjudged by History to have murdered its victims.
Whatever occurs, we should have Faith in the Justice and over-ruling Wisdom of God, and Hope for the Future, and Loving-kindness for those who are in error. God makes visible to men His will in events; an obscure text, written in a mysterious language. Men make their translations of it forthwith, hasty, incorrect, full of faults, omissions, and misreadings. We see so short a way along the arc of the great circle! Few minds comprehend the Divine tongue. The most sagacious, the most calm, the most profound, decipher the hieroglyphs slowly; and when they arrive with their text, perhaps the need has long gone by; there are already twenty translations in the public square--the most incorrect being, as of course, the most accepted and popular. From each translation, a party is born; and from each misreading, a faction. Each party believes or pretends that it has the only true text, and each faction believes or pretends that it alone possesses the light. Moreover, factions are blind men, who aim straight, errors are excellent projectiles, striking skillfully, and with all the violence that springs from false reasoning, wherever a want of logic in those who defend the right, like a defect in a cuirass, makes them vulnerable.
p219
The practical object of Masonry is the physical and moral amelioration and the intellectual and spiritual improvement of individuals and society. Neither can be effected, except by the dissemination of truth. It is falsehood in doctrines and fallacy in principles, to which most of the miseries of men and the misfortunes of nations are owing. Public opinion is rarely right on any point; and there are and always will be important truths to be substituted in that opinion in the place of many errors and absurd and injurious prejudices. There are few truths that public opinion has not at some time hated and persecuted as heresies; and few errors that have not at some time seemed to it truths radiant from the immediate presence of God. There are moral maladies, also, of man and society, the treatment of which requires not only boldness, but also, and more, prudence and discretion; since they are more the fruit of false and pernicious doctrines, moral, political, and religious, than of vicious inclinations.
p125
Masonry is the great Peace Society of the world. Wherever it exists, it struggles to prevent international difficulties and disputes; and to bind Republics, Kingdoms, and Empires together in one great band of peace and amity. It would not so often struggle in vain, if Masons knew their power and valued their oaths.
p188
Is it true that Masonry is effete; that the acacia, withered, affords no shade; that Masonry no longer marches in the advance-guard of Truth? No. Is freedom yet universal? Have ignorance and prejudice disappeared from the earth? Are there no longer enmities among men? Do cupidity and falsehood no longer exist? Do toleration and harmony prevail among religious and political sects? There are works yet left for Masonry to accomplish, greater than the twelve labors of Hercules; to advance ever resolutely and steadily; to enlighten the minds of the people, to reconstruct society, to reform the laws, and to improve the public morals. The eternity in front of it is as infinite as the one behind. And Masonry cannot cease to labor in the cause of social progress, without ceasing to be true to itself, without ceasing to be Masonry.
Its fidelity to its mission will be accurately evidenced, by the extent of the efforts it employs, and the means it sets on foot, to improve the people at large and to better their condition; chiefest of which, within its reach, is to aid in the education of the children of the poor. An intelligent people, informed of its rights, will soon come to know its power, and cannot long be oppressed; but if there be not a sound and virtuous populace, the elaborate ornaments at the top of the pyramid of society will be a wretched compensation for the want of solidity at the base. It is never safe for a nation to repose on the lap of ignorance: and if there ever was a time when public tranquillity was insured by the absence of knowledge, that season is past. Unthinking stupidity cannot sleep, without being appalled by phantoms and shaken by terrors. The improvement of the mass of the people is the grand security for popular liberty; in the neglect of which, the politeness, refinement, and knowledge accumulated in the higher orders and wealthier classes will some day perish like dry grass in the hot fire of popular fury.
But if the checkerboards is clearly black and white, and relativism is a billion shades of gray in between, I don't see how the two could be confused.
Originally posted by The GUT
Dualism, of the "checkerboard" God variety, seems to me, to generally lead to some form of moral relativism. That's where I was clunkily headed towards.
I won't know what happens after I die until I die.
Now I ask you: What happens to a man after death in the Masonic mystical sense? Are good and evil perpetually & equally balanced on the cosmic checkerboard?
Originally posted by The GUT
Dualism, of the "checkerboard" God variety, seems to me, to generally lead to some form of moral relativism. That's where I was clunkily headed towards.