Secret Space. UFO's, ET's and NASA.

reply to post by inven104u2


Amen!

totally blew me away.

Originally posted by sir_slide
reply to post by AllIsOne

 

I get a feeling like that, although many members have been VERY helpful in pointing people in the right directions as far as research goes, zorgon especially.

Here are some questions that I like to see answered from the ATS insiders:

- where do they launch the secret space program from?
- why waste billions of dollars on a "fake" NASA program and sacrifice astronauts' lives when we have much more advanced crafts?
- what is the purpose of the secret program?
- how many vehicles are involved?
- where are the massive black triangles being built? Ours?
- how much personel is involved? Where are they stationed? Do they have families?
- are other countries tracking the advanced US craft, but decided to keep silent?
- how is the crew selected?
- how do you keep the operation "secret" at all?

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by sir_slide
It is argued that Nasa has a secret space program

Well they are wrong...

NASA doesn't have a secret space program..

But sometimes Astronauts from the secret space program fly NASA missions

Well said, well said, Zorgon ! so true

Originally posted by the_0bserver85

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by sir_slide
It is argued that Nasa has a secret space program

Well they are wrong...

NASA doesn't have a secret space program..

But sometimes Astronauts from the secret space program fly NASA missions

Well said, well said, Zorgon !

so true

You guys gotta get out of your self-imposed intellectual ghetto more often.

The existence and nature of the DoD manned MOL program in the late 1960s was pretty well known at the time and has gotten better researched by historians since it was cancelled in 1969.

Sure, any new TV documentary is gonna hype 'never-revealed secrets' for its target audience -- you just gotta know enough not to fall for the hype.

Otherwise, you launch yourself on speculations based on misunderstandings and myths, and hype yourselves into orbit before you know it.

Come on, the real mysteries and puzzles -- and Zorgon has a few of them in his sights -- are well worth the efforts to avoid getting sidelines or detoured, either by accident or on purpose.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by JimOberg
There's a claim that Story Musgrave says he saw stuff out the shuttle window that had DNA. I genuinely have never heard that claim, and have been a collegue of Story's since 1982 or so... and would like to determine if I missed it, or forgot it -- both possible -- or if the claim was imaginary, or what. Can we try and accomplish this?

Sure thing Jimbo... if you really are Jim... sometimes I wonder if different shoes fill the spot... either that or your memory is slipping

Here in this video starting at 3:00 Story in his own words talks about snakes and other organisms, though it does say he doesn't think they are Alien spacecraft... (sounds more like critters to me

)

Cool. I still don't see Musgrave associating alien DNA with his snakes, or even mentioning the term 'DNA' as you had stated he had.

One of us has been carried away by his imagination. This exchange has helped me figure out which it is.

Been distracted in the last 24 hours with the media flap over 'loss of communications' with the Russian Soyuz -- turned out it didn't happen anywhere like was originally reported. Life's usually like that.

Hello,
I'm new here, but been looking in on ATS for some time now. I decided to post in this thread because I really dislike disinformation (rampant throughout many ATS threads). Where do people get their information from before posting to the internet? Do they even verify any of it with their sources? Not speaking about the OP here, but rather the people who made the video. Obvious fake stuff included in it and what makes it worse is that many people (not necessarily here) will take it as fact, or at least ponder and store it in their brain as fact!

The part of the vid that's obviously faked is the Masonic flag photo shown in the vid at time = 1hr 37min 38 seconds. This is a screen cap from the vid...



This is a crop from the original image found on the web...



And this is what that crop will look like when you edit it to sort of match the screen capture for blur/rotation/etc...



Here's a link to the original photo...
spaceflight.nasa.gov...

Obviously, whoever made the vid didn't investigate their sources or decided to fake it anyways for whatever purposes. How in the world do we get valid info on anything if crud like this is allowed to circle the web?

Sad and disturbing!

I think I can answer some of these...based on how it works with other secret programs, and of course, sheer speculation.....

- where do they launch the secret space program from?
The most logical choice would be missile testing sites, but if there are craft that don't need a conventional "launch", and they can take off like a plane, then you could deploy these from a variety of locations.

- why waste billions of dollars on a "fake" NASA program and sacrifice astronauts' lives when we have much more advanced crafts?
Most would say, for the coverup, but seems to be an awfully big expense for just smoke and mirrors. I don't buy it.

- what is the purpose of the secret program?
That is the real kicker, though I'd imagine adherents would claim it was a space defense fleet

- how many vehicles are involved?
Hardly important really. Even the existence of one would be shocking in and of itself. Though, if for defense, I hope there are a bunch....

- where are the massive black triangles being built? Ours?
Seems to be the consensus, though there are limited facilities you could launch such large craft from, undetected. Again, test sites would seem the best fit.

- how much personel is involved? Where are they stationed? Do they have families?
Just look at Area 51 for a good example here. Most likely would live off the facility, and be flown or bussed in. Simply put, these folks don't discuss their work with their family. On this, I can attest to first hand knowledge. Other than cryptic hints, he'd (my father, longtime Lockheed man) never divulge what he worked on, which was often just modifications to already public stealth fighters. What those modifications were? I've no idea, and know better than to ask. Have since I was a kid. Others, may even live on base, with their families, (the housing is typically well away from the main base area and runways, etc.). The kids would go to a base school (been there, done that, military base schools).

- are other countries tracking the advanced US craft, but decided to keep silent?
Doubtful. Stealth is pretty advanced. When testing the Nighthawk, they'd pick up the testing pylon it was sitting on, before the craft itself. I can only imagine what advances they have made for the Raptor and any other aircraft we don't yet know about. Of course, nothing is perfect, so stands to reason they could if they really put the resources to it. Russia was quiet about the U-2 and the SR-71 for ages. They knew we were flying over, but were out of missile range (until they caught up in missile ranging, and eventually shot down Gary Powers).

- how is the crew selected?
Just look at the selection of the U2 and SR-71 crews for an idea of the criteria, if such a program existed of course...which I still highly doubt. Would probably include some NASA folks, but none that had any limelight.

- how do you keep the operation "secret" at all?
SCI. Secret, Compartmentalized Information. You only know the part you need to know. That, and the threat of all kinds of jail time, fines, etc. Of course, the biggest threat is losing a lucrative job in the defense contractor industry. That's often enough, though I'm sure if they had the need, they'd resort to other methods.

reply to post by Gazrok


Thank you very much. Your reply is appreciated.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Cool. I still don't see Musgrave associating alien DNA with his snakes, or even mentioning the term 'DNA' as you had stated he had.

Don't recall myself saying DNA unless I was quoting someone

Originally posted by AllIsOne
Here are some questions that I like to see answered from the ATS insiders:
- where do they launch the secret space program from?

Anywhere... Kwajalien Atoll comes to mind



But they can launch secret missions from Cape Canaveral as well. Sure the public can see the rocket launch. but what is inside it? The early shuttle missions had several secret DoD missions... all you have to do is look on wikipedia. The return weight on a few is still classified today

Military Missions of the Space Shuttle
www.thelivingmoon.com...

Space Command Morrell Operations Center's Mission Control - the OTHER mission control at the cape Operated by the 45th wing space command out of Patrick AFB

Remember when Atlantis was delayed once and the NRO was in a hurry to launch a new spy satellite? These guys retooled the launchpad in record time and sent the bird up on an Atlas instead

Atlas V Launch Scores Major Milestones


Atlas V pre-launch operations Image Courtesy Patrick AFB
www.thelivingmoon.com...

Rocket Carries Secret Spacecraft - headline from Florida Today
www.thelivingmoon.com...

- why waste billions of dollars on a "fake" NASA program and sacrifice astronauts' lives when we have much more advanced crafts?

That is a very good question... one I have asked many times. The only answer we have so far is they so badly need to keep it secret, they will let the regular astronauts take the roman candles and rust buckets. One insider told me "The VIPs take the Mercedes, the workers take the bus" He was kidding... or was he?

- what is the purpose of the secret program?

I would certainly hope defense... but that would mean they are aware of a threat from 'out there'. It was funny that the US NAVY carried this disclaimer in the old Clementine Browser front page..

The Naval Research Laboratory is not affiliated in any way with any organization selling lunar property or acreage on the moon. NRL has no involvement, either officially or unofficially, in providing "after-sales service" for the purchase of lunar property from the Lunar Embassy, its franchisees, or any similar organizations. Disputes arising from the purchase of lunar property from such organizations must be resolved with the seller directly.

Link still at www.cmf.nrl.navy.mil..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Way Back Machine Archive

So I guess the Navy space program must have been getting a lot of calls to protect personal holdings on the moon..

- how many vehicles are involved?

No data available... just lots of rumors like the TR3-B... I have had it hinted that we have 5 larger cruiser type ships at least, but that was several years ago. And I have no data to back those numbers yet... I do know that there are some watchers here who know the answer to some of that But I can guess at the names of some of them... Navy tradition

- where are the massive black triangles being built? Ours?

I know where many of the smaller ones are built... several locations and where they are tested... and that they have the new nano microsphere 'stealth coating' that makes them virtually invisible (except for the heat signature which makes for some weird UFO sightings) but I am not yet convinced of the huge triangles that are supposed to be 600 ft and several stories tall. Not ours anyway

- how much personel is involved?

It's funny really that you expect firm answers to this degree on a top secret program And I don't have room to paste the whole Naval Space Command thread info into here..

Space Command
General Kevin P. Chilton
Commander, Air Force Space Command

"The establishment of Space Command is a crucial milestone in
the evolution of military space operations. Space is a place--like
land, sea, and air--a theater of operations. And it was just a matter
of time until space was treated as such."
~ General James V. Hartinger, 1 September 1982

Naval Space Command

Beginning in the mid-1980s, concurrent with the development of space operations and space engineering curricula at the Naval Postgraduate School, the Navy began “coding” officers as space subspecialists. As space subspecialty codes were then assigned to particular officers’ billets on numbered Fleet staffs and at commands ashore, the service began assigning Navy members with matching codes to those positions. More recently, the Navy has begun efforts to build a cadre of “space smart” officers, enlisted personnel and civilian employees.

The Naval Space Cadre is composed of active-duty and reserve Navy and Marine Corps officers and enlisted personnel, along with Navy civilian employees from a wide range of career fields who meet mandatory education, training and experience standards established for a particular certification level. The Navy Space Cadre is a distinct body of expertise horizontally and vertically integrated within Navy and Marine Corps active duty, reserves and civilian employee communities organized to
operationalize space

Initial identification of the cadre began in mid-2001 with the standup of the Naval Space Cadre Working Group and culminated in a naval message (NAVADMIN 201/03 DTG211435Z JUL 03) announcing the first 700 officer members of the cadre. These officers were identified by the subspecialty codes of 6206, Space Systems Operations, and 5500, Space Systems Engineering or by the additional qualification designator of VS1, VS2, VS3 or VS4. Identification of enlisted and civilian cadre members is more challenging, as these groups do not have specif?ic space identifiers like the officers do.

Approximately 265 billets are currently identified as space billets. These jobs are in Navy, joint and National Security Space organizations. Space cadre members are currently assigned throughout the National Security Space arena, including the National Reconnaissance Office, National Security Space Architect, National Security Space Integration, MILSATCOM Joint Program Office, as well as in all Navy organizations that deal with space.

High Frontier
The Journal for Space and Missile Professionals
Summer 2004

Where are they stationed? Do they have families?

Here are a couple of the main stations...
Dahlgren WV
www.cnic.navy.mil...
San Diego
www.public.navy.mil...

As to Family...
Rear Admiral Patrick D. Moneymaker
Commander Naval Space Command

Here is his personal page on his family website
www.moneymaker.com...

Another point on family made by a poster

Originally posted by FTL_Navigator

Greetings Zorgon,
All I can say is that what you say can be unofficially confirmed

Seen the job requirements, would satisfy any serious human that can think outside the box. Better the applicants have no family or kids as the requirements mean being "away from home" for extended periods of time.
happy hunting
HADES

- are other countries tracking the advanced US craft, but decided to keep silent?

Not sure, but I suspect Russia is in the know... perhaps China as well as Buzz Aldrin, senior science advisor for Gravwave LLC is working with the Chinese on anti gravity research
www.gravwave.com...

See page 9 for Buzz
www.gravwave.com...

- how is the crew selected?

No idea... but I might have a lead on an application form

- how do you keep the operation "secret" at all?

Simple enough... and no it's not threats... they simply chose people that have the right stuff. The really funny thing is little clues and hints are dropped all the time... right in front of our noses... but unless you assemble the puzzle, you cannot see the whole picture...

And then you get reports from Space weather that read...

SECRET SPACE PLANE: NASA's space shuttle program may be winding down, but the US Air Force's is just getting started. On April 22nd, the USAF launched an unmanned mini-shuttle from Cape Canaveral on a secret mission widely thought to involve reconnaissance. The X-37B can now be seen gliding through the night sky shining about as brightly as the stars of the Big Dipper. On Sunday night, Gary O. photographed it streaking over the treetops of his home in Fort Davis, Texas:

spaceweather.com...

It just came home... been up there for 7 months

Originally posted by JimOberg
You guys gotta get out of your self-imposed intellectual ghetto more often. The existence and nature of the DoD manned MOL program in the late 1960s was pretty well known at the time and has gotten better researched by historians since it was cancelled in 1969.

Come on now Jim... seriously... and what of the Russian Almaz? Yes many knew about that secret program, but all the years John and I said 'Secret Space Program' on ATS the skeptics pounced and ridiculed. Since NOVA did astropies 90% of them fell silent... and the rest of the 10% are like you... "Yeah we knew about that but it was canceled"

Funny thing that one of the first crew in that program Richard Truly became Vice Admiral, director of NASA (where he squashed the infamous ET law), a NASA astronaut and first commander of the Naval Space Command

www.jsc.nasa.gov...

So forgive me if I don't buy the 'canceled' part.

And there is at least one 'skeptic' here that could tell us a story... if he could find a way around being recognized by his fellow workers. I can say that because he has already dropped several direct hints.

reply to post by zorgon


Thank you sir. Your reply is appreciated.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
There is a real, secret manned space program. But thanks to stuff like this, it can easily remain secret. If you don't understand why I say this, think real, real hard.

But that is the point of 'stuff like this' isn't it? What better way to keep the lid on? I mean if we had a real insider... with real info, why he could safely spill his beans and no one would notice, nor believe him

Well save a few of us

There is currently a manned secret space program that tax payers have been supporting for years. Currently, they do not, and have not actually flown any manned missions. They just train....then sit around and get paid I guess, lol. They have at least one vehicle that can achieve orbit from runway takeoff, however it has little to no payload capacity and only holds two people. Kind of useless. The thing can't even dock to anything.

I would suspect that we have a program like this just to waste money on, and to keep our enemies on their feet so they waste money as well. Cold-war style politics.

And there is at least one 'skeptic' here that could tell us a story... if he could find a way around being recognized by his fellow workers. I can say that because he has already dropped several direct hints.

edit on 17-12-2010 by zorgon because: Classified

Its not like many others in NASA and the sorts would read this and point him out.
It would be nice to hear what he had to say though.

reply to post by zorgon


So when are you going to convince him to "spill the
beans"? ....

Originally posted by manta78
reply to post by zorgon

 

So when are you going to convince him to "spill the
beans"? ....

I think Zorgon has been passing the beans here for some time, guys.

Just don't hold a match too close.

Where this issue may touch upon the real world, it is how such stories -- and
the public gullibility about them -- can serve as convenient cover and deflection
for genuine projects whose wide recognition is considered undesirable.

We've seen how the USSR used public 'UFO fever' to disguise many of its
military space and missile activities in the 1960s and even into the 1980s.... and
'UFO true believers' to this day are loyal to those bogus 'cover stories' while
ironically proclaiming their devotion to piercing government coverups.