The Antikythera device: Some not so obvious "implications" resulting from it's very existence.

reply to post by JohhnyBGood

you have to bear in mind that in those days one of the main areas of knowledge was the keeping of calenders, feast days, holy days, planting seasons and such, they regarded the celestial bodies as gods and it was of the utmost importance to have knowledge of thier motions

Greeks had astronomical observatories, hadn't it???

What is this thread about? The "extraordinaryness" of the device? The implications?

People - 'bout time to close this thread me thinks...

Nothing extraordinary about the device...at least not in an accepted mainstream historical context.
Less than a 150 years after this device, an Alexandrian had invented a steam-powered "ball" that rotated 1500 times a minute.
Several named ancient greeks theorized that the planets did move in eliptical orbits around the sun - yes. Copernicus even references at least one of them in his works

The greeks knew ratios
The greeks could calculate
The greeks had the know-how to build the device
The greeks also had the inclination
- this does not mean that they were miles more advanced than we think - we KNOW they were. And we (and the mainstream historians) have hardly ever disputed that

Plus it's now more than 4 years since it was conclusively proven that the device was for astronomical use

Even though the understanding that the device is not that extraoridinary is a few google-searches away - it seems pretty clear that understanding of history, and historical context and relevance, takes more than being internet-savvy.

People who use this device as any kind of fundament for Ancient Astronaut/Lost Civilazations yap really do need to step up or step down - extraordinary claims demands extraordinary evidence - to use a famous man's words. The Antikythera mechanism is not extraordinary evidence

PS: Even Cicero mentions this device - how much of a hoo-ha are we going to make of it???

sorry - had to rant

reply to post by BeginEnd

People who use this device as any kind of fundament for Ancient Astronaut/Lost Civilazations yap really do need to step up or step down - extraordinary claims demands extraordinary evidence - to use a famous man's words. The Antikythera mechanism is not extraordinary evidence

wuh, that's funny as Hell is, & even more how can you make something w/o adequate technical basis???

I personally find this very intrigueing. I am of something of a mystical mindset though i assure you not a religious nut. There is documentation of a book (Sepher Rezial Hemelach) given down through the ages in the words of the archangel Raziel who was the keeper of gods secrets. It is believed that this book contained many secrets of astronomy, astrology, metals, and innumerable other sciences.
I simply find it interesting that such references to great knowledge can coincide both scientifically and spiritually. it gives me cause to wonder if the two need to be so irrevocably separated.

Just a thought.

reply to post by BeginEnd


Putting down a bunch of people who are having fun inquiring in the true spirit of ATS
while on ATS
is not just a "rant"
it is IGNORE rant
ignore denyance

have a nice day

PS the whole thread was worth it just for Ben 81s quip.
if you ever reach that level of insite I'll respect what you post again

PPS when I googled bens comment to see wht the joke was this thread was number 2 on the google page of
"The Antikythera device"

Originally posted by SarK0Y
reply to post by BeginEnd

 

People who use this device as any kind of fundament for Ancient Astronaut/Lost Civilazations yap really do need to step up or step down - extraordinary claims demands extraordinary evidence - to use a famous man's words. The Antikythera mechanism is not extraordinary evidence

wuh, that's funny as Hell is, & even more

how can you make something w/o adequate technical basis???

The Greeks had "technical basis" to make this and even more.

The real question is, how is it that you comment on this mechanism without even knowing the extent of Greek technology?

Harte

reply to post by Harte

so, they had advanced astronomical observatories, spacecrafts to learn outter Space, eh??? perhaps, you do've any evidences of it

Originally posted by SarK0Y
reply to post by Harte

 

so, they had advanced astronomical observatories, spacecrafts to learn outter Space, eh???

perhaps, you do've any evidences of it

They didn't need any of that.

They had thousands of years of observations. Eclipses are cyclical. If you can count, and you count for long enough, you'll be able to predict the next one.

Same thing with the positions of zodiacal constellations, the Sun, the Moon and the Moon's quarters.

It's all entirely numbers-based.

Harte

Keeping knowledge to a unique few has been the down fall of culture and society over and over again.

The new experiment is to see if spreading knowledge around, and the capacity to read it, will stave off another fall.

reply to post by Harte

The device is remarkable for the level of miniaturization and for the complexity of its parts, which is comparable to that of 19th century clocks.
-------------------------
en.wikipedia.org...

in short, they had used techs to construct device no less advanced than what was in 19th century. that's pure evidence of good school of Math, Physics.. everyOne can measure & count, but precision makes difference

One of the more interesting aspects of the device, which is also discussed in another thread, is that it was apparently built by a Greek, but the method for calculating the various movements of the planets and eclipses wasn't Greek, but rather Babylonian. So you have some Greek guy who is not only smart enough to build this thing, but also has access to technical information from the Babylonians.

Probably the best post ive read on ATS without question.

Logical, well written and invokes thought and discussion. And nowhere does it make assumtions like so many of the UFO/NWO/Conspiracy theories. I wonder too how it is that these people were able to make such a scientifically advanced device, but no where else do we see the application of such advanced mathematics in their ancient society.

This really more than anything else, the pyramids included makes me wonder what knowledge of our past has been lost.

So many questions.

reply to post by tauristercus


But still, there would have had to be a sizeable capital outlay incurred in the design, development, construction and testing of the prototype unit.
Makes you wonder just who the financial backers may have been and what was in it for them. I'm sure that even as far as 2000 years ago, as today, anyone investing large sums of venture capital in an untried project would be expecting to recoup a tidy profit for their risk.


things were not done the way we do things now. many things were done by specialized tradesmen, monks, politicians, religious hierarchy, etc. "capital outlay" was not the norm back then. trade was the norm. you had your place and you stayed in it. knowledge passed down from parent to offspring unlike today. it would be like a burger king employee asking how the flames got to their grill. they have no idea the engineering and infastructure it takes to flamebroil that burger. they just know it does and its something beyond their comprehension and self taught ignorance. one family who were governed to produce maps, charts, do what we do today; get the info from whoever did it before and grow it from there. and they'd lock themselves in the room until it was done for their honor and reputation. then if the item produced worked and benefited whomever they were commissioned from, then you got paid by given land, title, staus, etc. which is like today. but this info they gained they'd keep to themselves like the way we have to pay to go to college for information to learn a trade.
So is it plausible only a few people had the knowledge of mathmatics and engineering to do this, yes. do you need a massive infastructure, no! remember they didnt have internet, phones, mail, or constant contact with others like them, in fact it was socially, politically, religiously and financially important not to. (like today, lol)

so what! they forged metal, used data to form it, and could count. they couldn't figure out that the sun was the center of our solar system! while the mayans did! one societies mechanics is anothers misfortune or discussion! nobodies perfect! we have to pay each other to get information/college! now that's stupid!! and we pay for our government to misinform us! that's even more messed up!

reply to post by tauristercus


There is only one thing you are missing, The Greeks regarded the knowledge as a "above top secret" secret that should not be deseminated generally. They felt that the irrational number "PI" was an affront to the universe and could not be disclosed since it was "Irrational" they didn't like "Pi" at all. Therefore the knoledge was kept very close to the vest so to speak. This is why the knoledge was eventually lost.Yes the device does show a great amount of knowledge of metalurgy, astral positions, tides as well as gears ect. but the knowledge of how to make such a device was kept hidden, and therefore eventually lost.

Interesting.. Always thought that much of the knowledge of the ancient world was destroyed forever when the library at alexandria was burned.. Leaving much forgotten with occasional odd artifacts such as this that point to ancient people being more advanced than commonly believed..

After reading this thread one thought stands out in my mind.
What has been the root cause of the loss of technology throughout mankinds existence?

In the last two hundred years alone the technological advancements made by man are almost unbelievable.
We've gone from horse drawn carriages to intersolar exploration and yet if some calamity were to affect our worlds population how many amongst us would be able to reproduce a modern computer, a working combustion engine, or even an every day convenience such as an electrical light from scratch?

reply to post by Danstew

The Greeks regarded the knowledge as a "above top secret" secret that should not be deseminated generally.

LOL! The Greeks designed the pi symbol to be self evident, its a simple graph. These days its esoteric because for most people its just a function on an electronic calculator. The reason knowledge was not widespread before the Renaissance was that the printing press had not been invented yet.

Very interesting thread. There are several possibilities. Gearing is a very sophisticated technology. To find a complex gearing differential from ancient history is thought provoking. There is some evidence ancient humans prior to agriculture, had larger brains and were stronger than us. Being from the past did not make one low IQ. So one possibility is an ancient genius figured out how to engineer the mechanism. Another possibility is lost knowledge from ancient civilizations - the Romans for example killed Archimedes. Ancient libraries were overrun and destroyed by invaders. A third possibility is interaction with beings from other planets, who engineered the mechanisms. A fourth possibility is time travel.

reply to post by tauristercus

Great thread S&F for you.

I've been interested in this device since I first heard about it in the 70's.

Very astute observations...

There are many ancient Greek references to mechanical automatons that could walk, talk etc that were built by Greek scientists. It should also be mentioned that there are also ancient references to mechanized doors and statues in ancient Greek and Egyptian temples. These subjects are often conveniently glossed over from the official histories of course. There is a very good book I read in recent years about the ancients' use of telescopes and magnifying glasses that is well worth tracking down too.

Clearly, there is much to ancient history we still know little about.

J.