Why do finds of ancient evidence get buried totally while ridiculously impossible histories get play

Originally posted by Harte

After 5,000 years Australia’s Amazing Hieroglyphs still struggle for recognition ! Because this site is NON-ABORIGINAL - the Aussie Government still fails to protect it. Leading Australian researcher Paul White brings us this astounding story and translations of the Egyptian hieroglyphs found in New South Wales….

People have been observed carving those fake hieroglyphs.

The glyphs themselves don't even meet the requirements of a first year Egyptology Hieroglyphics course (the ones that aren't gibberish, that is.)

No, the Egyptians never made it any farther than Punt. And they didn't stop bragging about that for hundreds of years.

Harte

Well then all of these book on petroglyphs in north america that are unrelated to any defusion study must contain a large amount of fake work.

Originally posted by CayceFan

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Is it not easier to presume a previously unknown Old World presence of tobacco and coca in ancient Egypt, than it is to suggest the Egyptians came to North America? Not as neat a story, but like they say, when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras. (and frankly, I don't see any reason to be surprised that ancient Egyptians took drugs for fun)

Presume? What? I thought proof was what you were preaching. I didn't know presumptions were allowed.

Sorry...I wasn't in attack mode, merely commenting.
Shall we say theorise, instead? Either way, assemble a research question and pursue it.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


By the way...is that Johnny Knoxville?

Originally posted by CayceFan
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

By the way...is that Johnny Knoxville?

It's Michael Palin doing the Lumberjack Song!

Pfft, you young people....

Originally posted by CayceFan
For the umpteen time; Why do you waste your time reading and posting in threads that you have labeled as complete hogwash? I really would like to know. Here is your chance to really enlighten us.

If by "umpteen time", you mean "the first time I have asked you", then I will say.....why does it matter to you?

reply to post by FatherLukeDuke


I don't remember if I was referring to you but in any case if you expect an answer to your question by ignoring mine and asking one of your own you'll probably end up disappointed.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by Harte

 

She discovered that the body of Henut Taui contained large quantities of coc aine and nicotine. The surprise was not just that the ancient Egyptians had taken drugs, but that these drugs come from tobacco and coca, plants completly unknown outside the Americas

Is it not easier to presume a previously unknown Old World presence of tobacco and coca in ancient Egypt, than it is to suggest the Egyptians came to North America? Not as neat a story, but like they say, when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras. (and frankly, I don't see any reason to be surprised that ancient Egyptians took drugs for fun)

It's even easier to note that every mummy found to contain the "daughter compounds" of these drugs is known to have spent around a century in Europe.

They used to have "mummy opening" parties in the homes of the European elites, where cocain was regularly used and tobacco smoked.

Also, a common insecticide used on many museum displays - particularly in Europe - was made from nicotine and its byproducts.

Of course, no one ever tells you these things.

Harder to explain is THC in Peruvian mummies.

How'd we get on Dr Balabanova anyway? Since we are, it should be noted that Balabnova herself stated that her findings should not be construed as evidence for cross-Atlantic contact of Egyptians with South Americans.


Harte

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by Logarock

 

The Ojibway here still have copper from Manitoulin island,
THEY say it was a trade article.

And as you know copper has been dug up in mounds all over north america and yet they say that the total found in america doesnt beginn to make up for the amount missing from the known copper mines.

There has never been any real estimate of how much copper was mined. It's actually impossible to say, given that ancient mines are just holes and one cannot say what used to be in a hole.

Also, even if such an estimate were possible, the only possible meaning is that we haven't found every, single copper artifact ever mined out of these ancient mines (and some of the copper protrudes above the ground in almost pure form.) This in an area surrounded by hundreds of miles of lake. How much is at the bottom of the lake(s)?

This has been addressed here at ATS before. Search terms: "Michigan copper."

Harte

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Harte

After 5,000 years Australia’s Amazing Hieroglyphs still struggle for recognition ! Because this site is NON-ABORIGINAL - the Aussie Government still fails to protect it. Leading Australian researcher Paul White brings us this astounding story and translations of the Egyptian hieroglyphs found in New South Wales….

People have been observed carving those fake hieroglyphs.

The glyphs themselves don't even meet the requirements of a first year Egyptology Hieroglyphics course (the ones that aren't gibberish, that is.)

No, the Egyptians never made it any farther than Punt. And they didn't stop bragging about that for hundreds of years.

Harte

Well then all of these book on petroglyphs in north america that are unrelated to any defusion study must contain a large amount of fake work.

The "Egyptian" hieroglyphs in Australia are modern. There is plenty of modern Grafitti in North America as well and it is not considered ancient either. Should it be?

Note:

Alan Dash, a surveyor with the Gosford City Council between 1968 and 1993, first noticed the carvings about 1975. Thoroughly familiar with the area, he revisited the site several times over the next 5 years, each time observing that more and more carvings appeared on the rock face. He considered the engravings the work of an irresponsible vandal.

Neil Martin himself found the man responsible. "In 1984 1 was in the area helping to put out a fire", he told me. "As I came around the base of the hill, I could hear a noise like someone chipping stone. I walked over to the cleft and found an old Yugoslavian man, chipping the stone with a Sidchrome cold chisel. Because this was national park property, I confiscated the chisel and the man left. Because he was mentally handicapped, we took no further action, but I later gave the chisel to the local historical society. We never saw the old man again."

Also:

Some of the glyphs are not Egyptian, and many that are Egyptian are incorrectly written. Some glyphs refer to Egyptian names that are hundreds of years apart but the overall inscription conveys no meaning whatsoever.

Source

Harte

Originally posted by CayceFan
I don't remember if I was referring to you but in any case if you expect an answer to your question by ignoring mine and asking one of your own you'll probably end up disappointed.

edit on 13-12-2010 by CayceFan because: (no reason given)

Don't worry, I didn't have high expectations, so I'm not disappointed.

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by Logarock

 

The Ojibway here still have copper from Manitoulin island,
THEY say it was a trade article.

And as you know copper has been dug up in mounds all over north america and yet they say that the total found in america doesnt beginn to make up for the amount missing from the known copper mines.

There has never been any real estimate of how much copper was mined. It's actually impossible to say, given that ancient mines are just holes and one cannot say what used to be in a hole.

Also, even if such an estimate were possible, the only possible meaning is that we haven't found every, single copper artifact ever mined out of these ancient mines (and some of the copper protrudes above the ground in almost pure form.) This in an area surrounded by hundreds of miles of lake. How much is at the bottom of the lake(s)?

This has been addressed here at ATS before. Search terms: "Michigan copper."

Harte

Harte I sware you are not worth talking to some times.

Yes there have been measurments made on the Michigan copper pits and yes they can figure out how much copper was taken out of the holes using basic math. The "holes" in this case are hole made in natural copper outcrops, where copper still remains not holes that someone thought might look like copper pits.

And do tell me why copper was stored along the shore line of Lake Erie is stash pits? And that info didnt come out of a diffusion book but a respected archaeology journals.

two good books on the subject;

'Timeless Earth', Kolosimo www.amazon.com...

'Morning of the Magicians', Pauwels www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1292271182&sr=1-1

they both deal with ooparts, lost technology, etc.

I worry almost as much about what they put into history books, as what they leave out.

"I told you I'm not allowed to argue anymore..."

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Harte

After 5,000 years Australia’s Amazing Hieroglyphs still struggle for recognition ! Because this site is NON-ABORIGINAL - the Aussie Government still fails to protect it. Leading Australian researcher Paul White brings us this astounding story and translations of the Egyptian hieroglyphs found in New South Wales….

People have been observed carving those fake hieroglyphs.

The glyphs themselves don't even meet the requirements of a first year Egyptology Hieroglyphics course (the ones that aren't gibberish, that is.)

No, the Egyptians never made it any farther than Punt. And they didn't stop bragging about that for hundreds of years.

Harte

Well then all of these book on petroglyphs in north america that are unrelated to any defusion study must contain a large amount of fake work.

[qoute]The "Egyptian" hieroglyphs in Australia are modern. There is plenty of modern Grafitti in North America as well and it is not considered ancient either. Should it be?

Very clever...to a newbe maybe. But you are not going to get away with trashing any North American glyphs by posting this case of fakery. The fact is there are many example of the Proto-Sinaitic script used in north america. One has only to study the art work and petros of NA to see its common use. I would recomend at least 200 hours for a serious student.

Proto-Sinaitic

THE ORIGINS AND EMERGENCE OF WEST SEMITIC ALPHABETIC SCRIPTS

Originally posted by Logarock
Yes there have been measurments made on the Michigan copper pits and yes they can figure out how much copper was taken out of the holes using basic math.

Those figures can change...here's a pretty good piece on sorting out the mythology:

The State of Our Knowledge About Ancient Copper Mining in Michigan
The Michigan Archaeologist 41(2-3):119-138.Susan R. Martin 1995

Popular literature contributes to the persistence of fantasy and mythology surrounding ancient copper mining in Michigan. This paper points out some of the major elements of mis-statement and myth revealed in current popular books, and suggests why they are fallacious, using current archaeological data about copper mining as counterpoint. www.ramtops.co.uk...

Although...I did hear tell of a trace element analysis of some precolumbian old-world copper that revealed it to be of New World origin. Think I can track that sucker down? I may even have had a copy of the paper, somewhere. Anyway...on with your squabbling.

Originally posted by Logarock
But you are not going to get away with trashing any North American glyphs by posting this case of fakery. The fact is there are many example of the Proto-Sinaitic script used in north america. One has only to study the art work and petros of NA to see its common use. I would recomend at least 200 hours for a serious student.

Well then, howzabout some solid examples in a North American context? Submit your best...

Originally posted by Danbones
Like I said only one of these "finds" has to be true
and the whole paradigm comes tumbling down.

Those have been well discussed in many places, and I'm afraid that the paradigm is intact. A number of them are hoaxes, some are reports from Pravda (which is about as reliable as The Onion.)

The sad thing is that archaeologists ARE reporting ancient things... and they're getting ignored by the mainstream. Hoax and ethnocentric sites (because they're so dramatic) are burying the real finds. You never see things on Bluestone Henge ( www.archaeology.co.uk... ) or training for citizen scientists on shipwreck archaeology ( www.tweednews.com.au... ) or the warlord's tomb ( china.globaltimes.cn... )

Worse still, people seem uninterested in history -- something you need to know when you look at an artifact -- and are clueless about geology (like... when did T. Rex live? (late Cretaceous, not the Jurassic.))

Originally posted by Logarock

The "Egyptian" hieroglyphs in Australia are modern. There is plenty of modern Grafitti in North America as well and it is not considered ancient either. Should it be?

Very clever...to a newbe maybe. But you are not going to get away with trashing any North American glyphs by posting this case of fakery. The fact is there are many example of the Proto-Sinaitic script used in north america. One has only to study the art work and petros of NA to see its common use. I would recomend at least 200 hours for a serious student.

Proto-Sinaitic

THE ORIGINS AND EMERGENCE OF WEST SEMITIC ALPHABETIC SCRIPTS

Wasn't trying to, was I?

Last I checked, the topic was the Australian glyphs.

Also, go any examples of Proto Sinaitic in America that are not from a Marine Biologist?

Harte

Originally posted by Logarock
Harte I sware you are not worth talking to some times.

Your estimation of my worth is somewhat less than important.

Originally posted by LogarockYes there have been measurments made on the Michigan copper pits and yes they can figure out how much copper was taken out of the holes using basic math. The "holes" in this case are hole made in natural copper outcrops, where copper still remains not holes that someone thought might look like copper pits.

Please link to these estimates that cannot be accounted for in any way other than Egyptian (or Phoenician)mining in North America.

A hole is by definition empty. What used to be in the hole cannot be accurately measured.

Originally posted by LogarockAnd do tell me why copper was stored along the shore line of Lake Erie is stash pits? And that info didnt come out of a diffusion book but a respected archaeology journals.

Where did I claim copper was never mined in Michigan?

Copper was no doubt cached for future trading. It's the amount that is in question, not the existence of ancient copper mines or mining.

Harte

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


"Now we turn to the second major theme in the copper culture myth, that of the dogma of the missing copper. Where did all the copper go? This theme is formulated on a calculus of mythic arithmetic, a prehistoric numbers game! The mythic calculations involve the numbers and depths of copper extraction pits, the numbers and weights of stone hammers, the percentage volume of copper per mining pit, the numbers of miners, and the years of mining duration. Ultimately, the mix of these numbers yields the alleged total amount of extracted prehistoric copper, that being in the range of 1 to 1.5 billion pounds"....

I dont know why this person gos on here. The only requirment would be to calculate volume removed from known pits. Very simple. I see that they offer ZERO calculations on the matter save for this crazy figure.

To gain just a slight picture of how stupid this all is, had the total amount of copper dug up out the area only been 25 ton/50,000lbs (lets say 50 pickup truck loads) we still have only a fraction of this represented in north american mound builder site digs.

As even she asks "where is all the garbage"? So where is all the copper? Trade to central america? The mound builders culture? Still dont think that between North and Central America not over a ton (or 2? and very liberal allowance) of copper has been found in any form in total at digs of any kind. And thats taking it down to a figure of 25 tons removed from the pits in question.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Danbones
Like I said only one of these "finds" has to be true
and the whole paradigm comes tumbling down.

Those have been well discussed in many places, and I'm afraid that the paradigm is intact. A number of them are hoaxes, some are reports from Pravda (which is about as reliable as The Onion.)

The sad thing is that archaeologists ARE reporting ancient things... and they're getting ignored by the mainstream. Hoax and ethnocentric sites (because they're so dramatic) are burying the real finds. You never see things on Bluestone Henge ( www.archaeology.co.uk... ) or training for citizen scientists on shipwreck archaeology ( www.tweednews.com.au... ) or the warlord's tomb ( china.globaltimes.cn... )

Worse still, people seem uninterested in history -- something you need to know when you look at an artifact -- and are clueless about geology (like... when did T. Rex live? (late Cretaceous, not the Jurassic.))

edit on 13-12-2010 by Byrd because: (no reason given)

thank you sir
that illustrates my point better then I have
Religious versions of history being used for political reasons as well
like land claims comes to mind...